Author Topic: Miscellaneous sore subjects  (Read 402 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 2684
  • FAN REACTION: +126/-122
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Miscellaneous sore subjects
« on: May 31, 2022, 10:21:20 AM »
RSVP

1)
3/2, B-32, 6:00 (1), A=0, B=0.
All players of both teams are in legal alignments. As A12 is calling the snap count, B99 slaps his thigh sharply, causing A76 (in a 4-point stance) to fall forward. Before the ball can be snapped, officials sound their whistles and drop their foul markers.

Ruling:


2)
3/2, B-32, 6:00 (1), A=0, B=0.
All players of both teams are in legal alignments. As A12 is calling the snap count, B99 gives the clearly audible and sharp verbal command, "Rebel!", causing A76 (in a 4-point stance) to fall forward. Before the ball can be snapped, officials sound their whistles and drop their foul markers. (Note: No players of Team B make any movement before officials sound their whistles, and, as Team B's head coach reminds the officials, "That's our signal to blitz, and is not part of their signals!")

Ruling:


3) 
3/2, B-32, 6:00 (1), A=0, B=0.
All players of both teams are in legal alignments. As A12 is calling the snap count, B99, in a 4-point stance and within one yard of the neutral zone, moves abruptly laterally, which causes A76, in a hands-on-knees stance, to take a half step backward, and move his arms into a blocking posture. Before the ball can be snapped, officials sound their whistles and drop their foul markers. (Note: There was no audible sound made by any Team B player, and Team B's head coach reminds the officials, "We didn't make any signal!")

Ruling:


4) 3/2, B-32, 6:00 (1), A=0, B=0.
All players of both teams are in legal alignments. As A12 is calling the snap count, he suddenly gives the sharp verbal command, "HUT!", while simultaneously clapping his hands (but while maintaining his vertical posture). B99 reacts by charging across the neutral zone and contacting A76. Before the ball can be snapped, officials sound their whistles and drop their foul markers.

Ruling:


5) 3/2, B-32, 6:00 (1), A=0, B=0.
All players of both teams are in legal alignments. As A12 is calling the snap count, he suddenly gives the sharp verbal command, "HUT!", while simultaneously clapping his hands and dipping shoulders. B99 reacts by charging across the neutral zone and contacting A76. Before the ball can be snapped, officials sound their whistles and drop their foul markers.

Ruling:


6) 3/2, B-32, 6:00 (1), A=0, B=0.
Team A are spread across the field, moving easily to their final positions. With ends and backs in position and stationary, the interior offensive line step forward to their line positions, and drop down into 3-point stances. Immediately upon the hands of these linemen setting on the ground, the ball is snapped. A12 receives the snap and runs forward to the B-25, where he is tackled and the ball becomes dead.

Ruling:

Offline dammitbobby

  • *
  • Posts: 767
  • FAN REACTION: +16/-7
  • I know just enough to be dangerous...
Re: Miscellaneous sore subjects
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2022, 12:09:35 PM »
RSVP

1) Ruling:
Foul by B99 for DOG.  This is not part of normal defensive player movement (7-1-5-4).  5 yards, 1/10 at B27.

2) Ruling:
IMO, shouting a word like 'rebel' can be a legitimate football act, and we hold A76 accountable for his FST movement.  5 yards, 3/7 at B37, repeat the down.

3) Ruling:
Could be a bit subjective based on what the official perceives at the intent of the movement by B99, but technically there is no foul here by B, and since the officials killed the play, they believe that A76 has committed a FST.  5 yards, 3/7 at B37, repeat the down.

4) Ruling:
Dead ball offside foul on B.  (7-1-5-2).  5 yards, 1/10 at B27.

5) Ruling:
FST by A12 (7-1-2-b-1 and 7-1-2-4-c)  5 yards, 3/7 at B37, repeat the down.

6) Ruling:
Illegal shift (7-1-2-a) that converts to a false start (7-1-2-5) by the two guards and tackles. 3/7 at B37, repeat the down.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 2684
  • FAN REACTION: +126/-122
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Miscellaneous sore subjects
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2022, 12:38:30 PM »


Not commenting on whether you are correct or incorrect. Let's see if we get some more responses in agreement, or disagreement.


Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 2749
  • FAN REACTION: +106/-58
Re: Miscellaneous sore subjects
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2022, 05:49:45 PM »
1.  This is a foul by team B.  Not part of normal defensive movement.  The intent is to create a FST.

2.  This is a foul by team B.  No matter how much the coach says that's his team's signal and no matter how far away from Team A's cadence it may be, the hard, loud, sharp cadence is disconcerting and clearing intended to confuse team A.

3.  We know what team B is trying to do here.  They are making a move with the intent of creating a FST.  This goes away the sooner we all start to flag for DOD.

4.  DOF

5.  FST.  The shoulder dip got him.

6.  FST.  All 11 players need to be set for 1 second initially.  If there were set initially and then went to 3 point, then we'd have an ISH.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 2684
  • FAN REACTION: +126/-122
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Miscellaneous sore subjects
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2022, 08:25:12 PM »
1. Yes, foul by B, but this is a 7-1-5-a-5 disconcerting signal. The sound of the pop of the thigh slap caused a false start. This is the same as a B player clapping his hands. But, I can see how you might want to rule 7-1-5-a-4. We gotta stop it, either way.

2. This is a 7-1-5-a-5 disconcerting signal. Any sharp verbal or audible signal by B is a foul. You may ask, “Well, how is Team B supposed to make a legitimate defensive call?” It can be loud, but it must not be sharp or abrupt. They just need to ‘ease’ into the call. Like, “rrrrRREEBBBELLLLL.” Some coaches will claim that this is legal because they didn’t make any movement. Wrong.

3. This is classic 7-1-5-a-4 quick / abrupt movement intended to cause a false start. Delay Of game - Defense (DOD). Many coaches will claim this is legal because they didn’t make a verbal/audible call. Makes no difference. Even if Team A doesn’t react, this is still illegal, and we gotta call it.

4. Yes, offside with contact. Team A may make ANY sort of verbal or audible signal. Team B is expected to “hold their water” until the ball begins to be moved for the snap.

5. False start by A12. A team A player(s) may make any verbal/audible signal, but they can’t make any movement that simulates the start of the down.

6. This is what some of us refer to as a “rolling snap,” and is patently illegal. We simply MUST make Team A stop for a FULL SECOND before the ball may be snapped. DOWN and GO is NOT legal, and we must stop it. Yes, this is an Illegal Shift that converts to a False Start.

Oh, and ALL of those are pre-snap (dead ball) fouls. But, Rs, remember, we don't use S7 (Dead-Ball Foul) for pre-snap fouls. And, everybody knows that False Starts are pre-snap, so no need to announce "Prior to the snap..." for those. Now, for the other fouls, if the ball does happen to get transferred from the ground by the center, then it is helpful to include something about it being before any action started, like, "Before the ball could be snapped..." I like that because it states that there really wasn't a snap, because something happened to interrupt the game, and a snap was not possible at that point. But do what ever floats your boat, and makes it clear that there was no down.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 09:13:19 AM by ElvisLives »