Author Topic: UIL or TASO  (Read 198465 times)

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504coach

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #125 on: December 08, 2009, 02:33:23 PM »
I also agree that the general "accountability" problems is with baseball, softball, and soccer.  With Baseball it is a simple supply and demand issue.  I can work 3 little league games 5 miles from my house for food and $55 cash a game or work 2 TASO games for $90 50 miles away from my house.  I will stick with Little League.  PeeWee football is approaching those levels.  I can call Peewee just about every night of the week in Houston for $50 cash.  I am at the point now where I do not do it for the money, but 15 years ago when I started I was doing it for the money.

TASO Problems
Website is horrible (houston has a great website, San Antonio, and South plains has a great website).  How hard is it to put a Forum on a website.  The HUDL video was really stupid.  They can do all of that for free over Youtube.

Retention of Officials is horrible.  I stood up at the state meeting in College Station when they were talking about retention and said, "There is not a single 1 of you up there that will be officiating in 10 years, why are you in charge of coming up with a retention plan?"  Then their great idea for increasing involvement was allowing 16 year olds to be members of the chapter but only allow them to work chains.

I will take all of TASO's issues every day of the week and twice on sunday before dealing with the UIL.  To put a drivers ed instructor in charge of officials that has never officiated is a slap in our face.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #126 on: December 08, 2009, 02:37:35 PM »
Was the subject of the lawsuit brought up to Mr. T during his infomercial?

I agree with a LOT of what TexDoc wrote and he said it much better than I could have, but one of my main issues with TASO is the lack of educational materials available through the TASO web portal.  There is a reason that the Aloha Clinic videos attract so much attention each year that they are posted on this site, because they are GREAT learning tools, even though you have to weed through the Fed stuff here in Texas, they are still great.  

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the leaders at TASO wanted to put together training video of games all across Texas but none of the officials or chapters (or very few) sent any in.  I've learned more about officiating on these forums and forming local study groups.  That is much more than what any state organization can provide to me.  

texref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #127 on: December 08, 2009, 02:49:33 PM »
I am well aware I am in another part of world believe me.  Is there anything a coach can say to merit a flag here or are the officials pretty much free game?  Do you give a varsity head coach more leeway than sub-varsity or assistant coaches?  Chalk up another reason I like working umpire...no coach in your ear.   ;D

A buddy of mine that uses "You gets you 15" as a rule of thumb. If they don't personalize it to the specific official they are talking to/yelling at he lets it pass. If it goes to "Ed...You suck" or "Jim...You are an idiot" they earn a UNS. If its "This crew sucks" or "This is the worst officiating I have ever seen" he ignores them.

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #128 on: December 08, 2009, 02:58:56 PM »
Ea guy has his own limit line.  Nobody has ever crossed mine.

Shoot, as a B you might as well be the U...insulated ;D

Offline TexDoc

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #129 on: December 08, 2009, 03:31:03 PM »
I've learned more about officiating on these forums and forming local study groups.  That is much more than what any state organization can provide to me.  

Jason, you, TXMike, me, DK Louie, Blue, Elvis and many others started bantering around rules situations probably over ten years ago on sites like this.  I've learned so much more from these sites than from anywhere else.

Parallex

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #130 on: December 08, 2009, 03:42:44 PM »
 To put a drivers ed instructor in charge of officials that has never officiated is a slap in our face.
Somebody should ask him if he considers someone with a learner's permit qualified to teach Driver's Ed.  Don't laugh.....I'm serious.

Offline TxGrayhat

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #131 on: December 08, 2009, 05:41:14 PM »
A Good question a fellow chapter member asked.. A what If... What if A Coach gets ran over by an Official because the coach was in the way where he wasn't supposed to be and gets hurt and decides to sue an an official. Will the UIL defend the UIL Official or the UIL Coach.....Great question what will happen ? Is the Official gonna get the same type representation the Officials recieved in San Antonio??
If you don't see the Football Don't Blow the Whistle!!!

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #132 on: December 08, 2009, 05:47:32 PM »
And while we are asking questions like that, let's ask where was UIL in THAT incident?  Even NASO ( much as I criticize them even though I am a member) filed a brief in the case on behalf of the officials.  UIL ?  cricket, cricket, cricket

Offline Arbitrator

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #133 on: December 08, 2009, 05:56:38 PM »
What I got from the meeting(s) last night.  

Basically UIL wants to be the exec director for TASO.  And Mr. Timmons is it.  Now Mr. Timmons says he wants a board for each sport and will try to do what the boards says.  But there is nothing to make him do so because "he is in charge."  The problem I see with this is at least in TASO we can decide who our leader is.  But what we get in exchange of the current system is that we have a paid UIL staff in charge.  Do we get any say on who that is or someone on the legislative council? Even in a non-voting member?  The TASO board does have 2 UIL members on the board (not that they stay around for meetings.)  

So the choice is.  Stay with TASO and be able to have a say in the leadership or go to UIL and have someone else in charge that might be able to help us with problems with schools?

One other thing I got from the meeting is that no one wants to talk about the problems with TASO or UIL that brought this about.  And I for one don't know of them.  Some talk about accountability issues.  But why is this a problem.  If there is a problem with a crew STOP picking them.  The crew will fix the problem or go away, the coaches have all the power they need to fix this issue now.  And according to Mr. Timmons coaches picking officials will not change.

^flag  QAfta has pretty much spelled out what Mr. T's intent is and that is to be the good UIL Dr.'s dictatorial ruler in absentia and it is apparent by his arrogance that he is not going to give that moniker up without some kind of fight.  It would be an insult to my 30+ years of football officiating experience to have someone as shallow as Mr. T is in an executive leadership role and I firmly believe that we should let the TASO lawsuit take care of things on its own merits. There appear to be enough legal conundrums addressed within the filing that, given the lengthy amount of time that it would take it to come to trial and the subsequent number of years that the appellate process would likely take, that TASO  could be well-functioning for the forseeable future. The bottom line is that TASO offers us true representation and Dr. Breighthaupt and Mr. Timmons do not. It's really that elementary! The UIL's aim is for nothing more than total control and money! That would be their definition of "accountability!"


Cooter

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #134 on: December 08, 2009, 08:05:15 PM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and take a shot at this one - the chapter president, or at least some of the secretaries where Timmons spoke last night, are probably going to call a playoff game this friday - They have probably had a playoff game every Friday AND/OR Saturday throughout the playoffs - you were probably all told it was "coaches choice." They are going to protect their dynasty - no different anywhere else in the World - UIL/University of Texas will not lose a court battle - not enough money in Texas to beat them - watch your backs new guys - these same officials WILL be on the field next year - regardless of what smoke they are trying to sell. 

Mckorkle

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #135 on: December 08, 2009, 09:55:47 PM »
My complaint is that we are closing communication with an organization that we must work hand-in-hand with.  The UIL is the governing body for Texas Jr. High and High School sports.  Yes, TASO is the standard by which all high school officiating associations are measured.  I just want to know what the UIL is planning before we close the door.  But, I guess we just need to stay quiet and let those in the power positions tell us what to do.  Treating us like "mushrooms".

I guess when everyone goes out this weekend and works a semi-final or final that these are all TASO games and not UIL.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #136 on: December 08, 2009, 10:23:19 PM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and take a shot at this one - the chapter president, or at least some of the secretaries where Timmons spoke last night, are probably going to call a playoff game this friday - They have probably had a playoff game every Friday AND/OR Saturday throughout the playoffs - you were probably all told it was "coaches choice." They are going to protect their dynasty - no different anywhere else in the World - UIL/University of Texas will not lose a court battle - not enough money in Texas to beat them - watch your backs new guys - these same officials WILL be on the field next year - regardless of what smoke they are trying to sell. 

Basketball officials are already starting to see the smoke Timmons is blowing.  There were 89 some odd officials who were promised trips to the state tournament and apparently there are only enough spots for 40 something.  Not sure on the exact numbers but it was clearly more promises than there were games.  Rest assured you can take all the chapters and they can all go UIL, but if there is even one that does not who will cover those games.  My chapter alone has around 30 schools.  I don't even know of a single official who is going to register with UIL.  None of the surrounding chapters will be able to cover our schools.  UIL will get some officials in and what do you do if you are displeased with the leader.  You can't vote him out.  According to the  lawuit the UIL doesn't even exist according to Texas law.     

Mo2Tx

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #137 on: December 09, 2009, 07:04:31 AM »
Got my Honigs Holiday 2009 catalog in the mail yesterday.  On page 40 under Special Programs they are only selling TASO hats now.  And those are for sale "While Supplies Last".  Looks like I will be taking my business elsewhere from now on.

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #138 on: December 09, 2009, 08:06:39 AM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and take a shot at this one - the chapter president, or at least some of the secretaries where Timmons spoke last night, are probably going to call a playoff game this friday - They have probably had a playoff game every Friday AND/OR Saturday throughout the playoffs - you were probably all told it was "coaches choice." They are going to protect their dynasty - no different anywhere else in the World - UIL/University of Texas will not lose a court battle - not enough money in Texas to beat them - watch your backs new guys - these same officials WILL be on the field next year - regardless of what smoke they are trying to sell.  

Well that crew, you mention also worked tha 5A State Championship game last year so I guess just maybe they might  be a pretty good crew and have coaches wanting repeat performances.

After last years state final, one crew member retired and that crew replaced him with a second year official.     Alas, these new guys just don't have a chance in our horrible system.     ;D

" I don't make the rules coach!"

Cooter

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #139 on: December 09, 2009, 09:19:23 AM »
Everyone has a chance RickWts - (such as the 2 year guy on that crew) thats the point I'm trying to make.  Why would the 5A championship caliber crew you describe throw all that away over $50?  I know the argument has been made its about principle, not money - but, in my opinion, I just don't get it.  And yes, I have principle, yes I don't think UIL handled this well as far as football goes, and yes Timmons comes across as a blow hard on YouTube.  This crew has obvioulsy worked very hard, are very good, and have standing and respect in your chapter.  Do you honestly believe that they will not sign with UIL IF that is the ONLY way they will be able to call a varsity contest?  The point I was trying to make with the "watch your back" comment was that the new guys look up to these veterans - as much as you might think they do not - they will follow their lead.  If they are told to boycott, strike, work stop, whatever - by these veterans, some will listen and do as told.  If the same folks saying this are going to register with UIL - the new guys get screwed. 

Offline Etref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #140 on: December 09, 2009, 05:18:32 PM »
Well in fact you would be wrong. One of the crew in fact told all of the members after our meeting with Timmons that this was an individual decision that we all should make.


That being said, I do not think UIL is right and I do not think TASO is 100% right on this deal. I hate being told I have to do something, kinda goes against my grain. I also am not real crazy about the UIL approach and spokesman. On the other hand, I do not believe for a minute that TASO is the end all, be all.

I sincerely hope that some type of compromise can be reached where TASO football ( or whatever the hell we want to call it) and UIL work together for what is best for the schools ( the kids), the officials and the coaches. Perhaps TASO football registers, trains, and keeps records for accountability to UIL. UIL provides the insurance, background checks, etc. Dues are split accordingly through UIL.

If we do reach some type of compromise, then the next week I would like to see a statewide meeting, not a convention, of TASO football where we the members tell the board to get their act together on training. I am the training officer for our chapter and you know what i got from TASO about training........ zero, zip, nada. Everything I got was scrounged from another source. TASO is supposed to be about training, if that is so, they need to do it!

« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 05:21:58 PM by RickWts »
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Cooter

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #141 on: December 09, 2009, 08:48:53 PM »
Well in fact you would be wrong. One of the crew in fact told all of the members after our meeting with Timmons that this was an individual decision that we all should make.


That being said, I do not think UIL is right and I do not think TASO is 100% right on this deal. I hate being told I have to do something, kinda goes against my grain. I also am not real crazy about the UIL approach and spokesman. On the other hand, I do not believe for a minute that TASO is the end all, be all.

I sincerely hope that some type of compromise can be reached where TASO football ( or whatever the hell we want to call it) and UIL work together for what is best for the schools ( the kids), the officials and the coaches. Perhaps TASO football registers, trains, and keeps records for accountability to UIL. UIL provides the insurance, background checks, etc. Dues are split accordingly through UIL.

If we do reach some type of compromise, then the next week I would like to see a statewide meeting, not a convention, of TASO football where we the members tell the board to get their act together on training. I am the training officer for our chapter and you know what i got from TASO about training........ zero, zip, nada. Everything I got was scrounged from another source. TASO is supposed to be about training, if that is so, they need to do it!



Excellent post Rick.  You sound like a reasonable person and a benefit to your chapter.  Both sides need to compromise - flaming letters and emails will get you nowhere. Good luck. 

Offline TxGrayhat

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #142 on: December 09, 2009, 10:00:42 PM »
I think Rick makes a point and I like his thinking football is such a different animal than the other sport. Texas does use NCAA with UIL exceptions.  As far as i know the other sports use federation rules. The issues as I see it came about due to issues with the other sports more so than football. I hope that UIL and TASO Football can organize men without an agenda our personal pride to come together and present what is important to their group and compromise for the betterment of all. If its about accountability Officials have no problem with that. The ejected coach doesn't have to go to Austin. Why can't we do like the Unemployment Office does Have the Coach(s) and Official(s) have a conference call with whomever is on the disciplinary board ideally comprised of equal numbers of UIL and TASO members  have both sides give their side of the story if witnesses are needed in extraordinary cases they can be called and questioned too. This would take around 30 minutes or less in most cases.  Then that board decide on the action needed. That would be fair to all. This may be far fetched but we need men/women with open minds to come together and fix something that is not so broke.  And yes it is time for TASO members to take the actions stand up and be heard to improve our side just as UIL must do the same to improve there side.. 
If you don't see the Football Don't Blow the Whistle!!!

Offline blindref757

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #143 on: December 10, 2009, 05:51:11 PM »
Going to Austin is a myth.

I personally know a baseball coach who got tossed from a game.  He went to his Regional Service Center and sat before a board of Sups.  They scolded him, backed the umpire who was very aggressive and unapproachable (I SAW THE VIDEO), and sent him away with his official UIL reprimand.  His name was in The Leaguer once and life proceeded as normal.  It drives me bananas to hear coaches pull the "full time" vs "part time" card and talk about their careers being ruined with a trip to Austin.  It's mythical!

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #144 on: December 10, 2009, 05:58:21 PM »
Dr B and Mr T are both coaches (b-ball no less). Don't know about Cliff O but not sure he is as involved as the other 2 in this.

Offline TxGrayhat

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #145 on: December 10, 2009, 06:33:09 PM »
What is the Leaguer? I have heard that term before but have no clue what it means.
If you don't see the Football Don't Blow the Whistle!!!

Offline TXMike

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #146 on: December 10, 2009, 06:35:16 PM »
Uil's newsletter

UT-Ex and FB Ref

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #147 on: December 10, 2009, 07:06:17 PM »
Where we you?

It's interesting to read all of the comments about how bad or good or whatever TASO "is". 

My question to all of you is "where were you when we needed you?". 

As a volunteer organization, we work to change mechanics, apply for new UIL exceptions, manage the TASO office, look for opportunities to train, look for ways to make things better, and/or just try to make it through the year with officials that call EVERY foul or officials that won't enforce the rules.

Where were you when we asked for training material?

Where were you when we asked for suggestions for the mechanics manual?

Where were you when we held the State Meeting in McAllen?

The simple point is, 98% of the football officials in my chapter, or yours, don't give a damn about anything other than their schedule.  They don't get involved in the Chapter, and they damned sure don't get involved in the state organization.

So, B&W go ahead and complain about Ray and the TASO Board.  It doesn't matter.  In the end, when football starts in the spring or in August, the officials will ask "what's my schedule" and won't know that the UIL took over; or failed in a take over.  Nor will they care.

If you want to help, get involved.  Ask how you can help and help. 

If you don't, just get the hell out of the way.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #148 on: December 10, 2009, 07:50:17 PM »
Where were you when we asked for training material?

>I have always supplied training/mechanics inputs when asked, and sometimes when not asked.  I held the umpire sessions at a state meeting several years ago.  I applied to be a TASO clinician but never received a response.  At least I applied.

Where were you when we asked for suggestions for the mechanics manual?

>I have provided input.

Where were you when we held the State Meeting in McAllen?

?Wasn't there.  I had a conflict with the date.  This is the first one I've missed in a long time.

I think you're preaching to the choir with most of the folks here.

Offline blindref757

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Re: UIL or TASO
« Reply #149 on: December 10, 2009, 08:31:36 PM »
Gee EX, I missed those emails from the TASO leadership crying for help.  If it weren't for Refstripes.com (Doc & TXMike), many of us wouldn't have even known there was a process for submitting suggestions.  I did submit suggestions, they were rejected--nothing was ever communicated as to why my idea was bad or why the current mechanic was better.  Had there been good communication from the TASO leadership, these committees that aim to serve as an arm of the board might have been full of good ideas.  Somehow, only certain district directors and their cronies get those calls to serve I guess.  Many good ideas are out there in the hearts and minds of officials who don't know the system or have certainly no realistic chance to get elected to a TASO director position...so they die on the vine because there isn't and hasn't been a two-way pipeline for change in this organization.  Every year, new people run for office in the local chapter and don't win.  You can't change the constitution and put in term limits because it requires an unreal number of members (75%) who are way to spread out to actually show up at the same time for a meeting.  The political system at every level is locked down by the good ol' boy network.  It isn't very friendly to new people or new ideas!

I work a lot of 2A football for $75 game checks (thats $750 over the course of a season for the mathematically challenged).  A plane ticket to Harlingen, a weekend rental car and a $75/night hotel room was a little more than I could bear.  Maybe it was a dumb decision to hold the meeting in McAllen!  Of course, if you just wanted the "good ol boys" to get together for their annual golf game and pow wow, the $500 trip is only a couple of game checks for the big dogs that run the show.  Maybe El Paso next year?

I really want there to be a TASO, but I'm not giving TASO any more of my money to be a status quo organization.  The UIL guys are formulating a plan...it's not perfect and probably never will be, but as TASO is now fighting for their lives, I'd like to see them more on Offense than Defense.  What is TASO 2011 going to look like guys?  It's only 1 month until I have to make a decision.  Convince me please!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 09:12:09 PM by blindref757 »