Author Topic: Who is in Who is out?  (Read 65721 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fencewire

  • *
  • Posts: 439
  • FAN REACTION: +20/-74
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »
And further, given the recent communication, why would your chapter "go" UiL?  For football, they have nothing to help you, as far as we know right now.  There are no incentives to be a "UiL" chapter.  Your chapter might get favorable consideration in those few games where coaches can't agree and the UiL assigns the game, other than that, what?   You think those few games are enough to get the majority of your chapter to "affiliate" with the UiL.  Otherwise, you will be no different than any other TASO official that registers with the UiL, other than the fact that you have run your trap about something, at least at this time has not and will not come to pass?

504coach

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2010, 08:00:07 PM »
OK, so I'm a (Speaker of the truth), Mr. Greyhat. Don't think for a minute that I am who you think I am. I am a member of TASO (only because I have to, to work games), I received a full varsity schedule (11 games) this year, work between 15 to 20 sub-varsity games every year and I am going to work the biggest Varsity game in our chapter this year (on the field, as part of a 5 man crew, (Mr.Arbitrator)). I just don't think that TASO does a thing for me and my chapter and they never have. They only care about Houston and Dallas and to hell with the rest of us. I think its wrong and the UIL has ALWAYS cared about us. Thats enough for me!!!!!!

I don't know what is sadder the fact that you are delusional with your blind trust of the UIL or the fact that you rank/assign value/ prestige to the highest 5A ball game that your chapter gets to cover.  So do you and the rest of the backwoods hillbillies get together and vote on which game is the biggest game, or do you go on orneryhillbillyfootball.com and discuss it in chat rooms?

ornery1

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2010, 08:12:13 PM »
I knew your BUTT would come alive if I mentioned Houston, 504. Keep yapping, WHATEVER.

504coach

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2010, 08:22:56 PM »
I knew your BUTT would come alive if I mentioned Houston, 504. Keep yapping, WHATEVER.

Yeah and I knew you secretly loved my BUTT.  These types of feelings are ok to have.  You just may want to share these feelings with the rest of the hillbillies that you might share a dressing room with.  They might not be comfortable with themselves as you are.

ornery1

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2010, 08:28:19 PM »
Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO

504coach

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2010, 08:45:23 PM »
Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO
Once again another homoerotic reference from ornery1.  These feelings are ok to have just come out with your true feelings and confront those urges head on.  Don't pretend like you know me either the only person that knows me on here is joeandangie so go ask them who I am. 

Offline TxGrayhat

  • *
  • Posts: 323
  • FAN REACTION: +15/-4
  • T.A.S.O
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2010, 10:00:08 PM »
So how do you decide what the biggest game is..   We tell our Coaches when we get to the field That tonight for us This is the Biggest Game in the State....     If what is implied by the letter i recieved today That we will be able to Stay as TASO Chapters as long as we each register with UIL. Thats acceptable to me.  How are you going to take the field with your Taso crew members.
If you don't see the Football Don't Blow the Whistle!!!

Offline drilsgt_98

  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • FAN REACTION: +2/-1
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2010, 10:19:37 PM »
Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO

Ornery,
Summarize why the UIL route is better for the officials as a whole. Give us something tangible to hold on to, to understand. The constant badgering, belittling and name calling is way past old. State your case with concrete examples not vague generalities. Then and only then will you have a prayer of support.
Based on your previous posts I am sure support isnít what your after but for the sake of argument at least attempt to be informed on the course you seem hell bent to stay on.
I enforce the law! I make split second decisions based on the books. They may not always agree but that's why I wear my own color. At the end of the day, i've made no friends, and plenty of enemies. Why do I do it? Because I know what's right and wrong. And i've seen every precedent. So while they may argue, I am always in the right.   Cliff Keen website

Offline Arbitrator

  • Chief Manor Road Pig Poker
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-10
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2010, 10:24:39 PM »
Such a young pup and cocky to boot. No wonder you moved up the Houston ladder so quickly, you know how to deal with the BIG ONE.......LMAO

 ^flag

Ornery: We really don't have a lot of time for all of your diarrheic UIL dribble. Why don't you just go on your way and find a website that would be amenable to your constant bootlicking of the  tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his Monkey on a String. FYI, that would be in the Locker Room Section of the UIL Website. Just post all of your comments over there and we'll promise never to speak ill of you again!   z^

TXSmogs

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2010, 12:55:14 AM »
I just identified ornery1.  He is not the organ grinder or his monkey - he is the organ grinder's monkey's - monkey.  Let's ignore him - he is thriving on the attention.  ^flag

rickref

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2010, 07:49:24 AM »
With or without letterhead this letter is posted on the UIL website.


I am curious why is this the plan now? Why all the law suits. Why did the UIL not originally state this was the intent last year?  Personally I have no issue chooseing and still registering with them each year so long as any fees accessed are nominal. Still it would be good to see what that means to each offcial regardless of the fact they are UIL or TASO chapter.

And my biggest question is on this statement:"It is important to note that UIL member schools will be granted administrative access to every local chapter regarding registration information in the coming weeks.  Schools will be able to monitor registration progress chapter by chapter, sport by sport.  This will allow the schools to monitor officials who are eligible to officiate UIL contests."

What does this mean and how can they possibly grant access to chapter information? To me all they could do is check chapter rosters against UIL registered rosters. Anyone know?






Offline fencewire

  • *
  • Posts: 439
  • FAN REACTION: +20/-74
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2010, 08:10:07 AM »
just a guess, but if they can see a roster of officials in a chapter that have "registered" they could compare that to those that are assigned to work their games via ZW or whatever scheduling method the chapter may use.  If they find someone that is not "registered" they could request that they be replaced, I guess.

I thought of that scenario last week, where two teams are tied for the last playoff birth going in to the last week, Team A wins a tiebreaker on positive points, Team B finds out that team A had used an official that wasn't "registered" in their game in the final week.  Team B then gets the contest thrown out because it was not played in accordance to UiL rules and they get to go to the playoffs.  far fetched... but possible...  ^no

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8732
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-256
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2010, 08:15:09 AM »



I am curious why is this the plan now? Why all the law suits. Why did the UIL not originally state this was the intent last year? 
Because this was NOT the plan.  They are only being "forced" into this "concession" BECAUSE OF the lawsuits and push back they have encountered.

Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2010, 08:20:56 AM »
Ornery,
Summarize why the UIL route is better for the officials as a whole. Give us something tangible to hold on to, to understand. The constant badgering, belittling and name calling is way past old. State your case with concrete examples not vague generalities. Then and only then will you have a prayer of support.
Based on your previous posts I am sure support isnít what your after but for the sake of argument at least attempt to be informed on the course you seem hell bent to stay on.


I won't speak for Ornery - nor would I want to - he gives those of us who support the UIL a bad name.  But I will give my reasons for supporting UIL for whatever they are worth.  These are only my opinions but they are shared by some - not all by a large shot - in my chapter:

1.  It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word.  We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities.  It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football.  I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.

2.  Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by.  Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material.  Until TASO had their backs against the wall on this issue, they had nothing.  It is my belief that training will improve a great deal under UIL - my basis for this belief is that it can't be any worse.

3.  Oversee better allocation of playoff games.  It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd.  My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.

4.  The Superintendents and AD's want a change - not all - but in my personal opinion, a majority.  Regardless of what we think - it is their schools, their programs and their money.  If we had taken care of business (TASO) in years gone by, we wouldn't be in this position.  I still say go back and read TASO related posts prior to the lawsuits and UIL registration stuff - many of you who support TASO were also very disgruntled with them.  If it means we regain the support and respect of the Supe's and AD's - just to fill out a free UIL form - then I'm all for giving it a try.

5.  Other sports that have given TASO a bad name - look at the mess in Tyler basketball - own members turning the chapter into the Texas Attorney General.  Baseball threatening strike.  Fill in the blanks.  I'm not sure if TASO will ever recover in those areas of the state.  I think we need to give another organization a chance to clean house.

6.  Website - although very small in the scheme of things, the TASO website is a joke and most of you know it.  Getting any info from this site is very difficult.  I personally go to the Houston chapter site because it is exemplary.  TASO can't even get membership cards out or update a website - how do we (I) expect them to better officiating?  I'm willing to give UIL a chance.

Again - just my reasons.





Offline Coby

  • *
  • Posts: 283
  • FAN REACTION: +24/-72
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2010, 09:03:37 AM »
I won't speak for Ornery - nor would I want to - he gives those of us who support the UIL a bad name.  But I will give my reasons for supporting UIL for whatever they are worth.  These are only my opinions but they are shared by some - not all by a large shot - in my chapter:

1.  It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word.  We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities.  It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football.  I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.

2.  Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by.  Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material.  Until TASO had their backs against the wall on this issue, they had nothing.  It is my belief that training will improve a great deal under UIL - my basis for this belief is that it can't be any worse.

3.  Oversee better allocation of playoff games.  It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd.  My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.

4.  The Superintendents and AD's want a change - not all - but in my personal opinion, a majority.  Regardless of what we think - it is their schools, their programs and their money.  If we had taken care of business (TASO) in years gone by, we wouldn't be in this position.  I still say go back and read TASO related posts prior to the lawsuits and UIL registration stuff - many of you who support TASO were also very disgruntled with them.  If it means we regain the support and respect of the Supe's and AD's - just to fill out a free UIL form - then I'm all for giving it a try.

5.  Other sports that have given TASO a bad name - look at the mess in Tyler basketball - own members turning the chapter into the Texas Attorney General.  Baseball threatening strike.  Fill in the blanks.  I'm not sure if TASO will ever recover in those areas of the state.  I think we need to give another organization a chance to clean house.

6.  Website - although very small in the scheme of things, the TASO website is a joke and most of you know it.  Getting any info from this site is very difficult.  I personally go to the Houston chapter site because it is exemplary.  TASO can't even get membership cards out or update a website - how do we (I) expect them to better officiating?  I'm willing to give UIL a chance.

Again - just my reasons.






You bring up very good points on why to go UIL.  Throughout this whole ordeal no one has ever claimed that TASO does not have any problems.  I just dont trust a state agency to fix the problems.  Especially with a plan that no one has seen, that is different depending on who you talk to (supers, AD, Coaches, officials), and that did not include all stake holders in developing.  Dialogue is a good thing in these matters so I will address every one of your concerns to the best of my ability.

1.  Accountability.  Yes that seems to be the big problem that coaches and AD's identify as being magically fixed with UIL.  Here is my problem.  By becoming a state agency the UIL will have more hoops to jump through to get rid of bad officials.  They are state employees or registerees however you want to call them.  There will be a documentation and an appeal process associated with getting rid of them.  I do not know anything about your local chapter.  If you do not have internal measures already in your chapter to get rid of bad officials then that is on your local chapter not TASO state not UIL.

2.  Training.  Another big fail by TASO state (has anyone seen any new huddle videos lately????).  Here is my problem with that one.  95% of the TASO big wigs that are capable of creating the training are staying with TASO.  TASO owns all training books.  Where will UIL get the material?  The material will cost money.  Where will they get that money....dues?

3.  Better allocation of playoffs (for matters of disclosure I am in Houston).  Yes Houston gets more games.  As a percent of membership it is not that big of a difference.  Houston has 750-800 members another chapter might have 150.  Is it more then 600 percent of games?  Houston also has 1.5 regions of 5A schools, and 1.5 regions of 4A schools that they service in the regular season.  What TASO state could do is require every school or schools that request UIL officials to fill out a request online stating what they want and then make that information available to all local chapter leadership.

4.  Yes they want change, Yes TASO historically especially in other sports has been lacking in communication.  I dont think the UIL plan has any solvency and will create more problems.

5.  An analogy for this one... If a school has 5 bad teachers out of 55 do you re-constitute the school.  No you put systems in place to fix the 5 and get rid of them.  TASO has no system.  What are the UIL systems going to be????  They refuse to post them.

6.  This is not a small problem but a huge problem.  The new generation of official is very web savvy and TASO state does a horrible horrible job on their website.  This hurts in recruiting and training.  If it helps you any my Umpire runs the Houston website and he has offered to run TASO state to no response.  However he refuses to run and UIL houston.  Here is one for you how much cheaper would Zebra Ware be if it was run through the state?


Keep up the dialogue.  Dialogue is good.  Feel free to butcher any of my responses.



Coby Rhoden
Houston TASO Football (referee)

rickref

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2010, 09:13:03 AM »
On point 2 TASO got better, lots better with the dvd power points and the videos. No one has seen the HUDL? Possibly. They damn sure have in my chapter in every single meeting. We use chapter collected video plus hudl video with each TASO power point training frm the clinician DVD. The repsonce at meetings is overwhelmingly good. At one point I thought each chapter would have access or each official but I think roll out logistics, use, etc had yet to be worked out. Plus Mike was moved to TASO ED from the TASO VTT which caused a hiccup.
Without HUDL you can get tools and video and get film. If you want tips on how to do stuff for you chapter on your own send me a mesage.
This can be inproved on and has some first year kinks to work out but the potential is HUGE!! Still TASO will be much better suited for Football training and the like.

Point 6 is my big one. We need a new powerful site.


« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 10:09:25 AM by rickref »

Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2010, 09:46:33 AM »
Thanks for the response Mr. Rhoden.  Much appreciated - both in content and civility. 

Grant - AR

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2010, 09:47:44 AM »
2.  Training - it has been non-existent with TASO in years gone by.  Our chapter trainers have had to beg, borrow and steal (mostly from this site) to come up with training material. 

You stole it from this site?   :!#

How much money does TASO have again?   LOL

Offline Etref

  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 2178
  • FAN REACTION: +78/-27
  • " I don't make the rules coach!"
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2010, 10:01:15 AM »
Point 1 Accountability:
        Should we be held accountable, yes. Each chapter should document it disciplinary actions and forward to TASO and they can be compiled and UIL can then see them. TASO should do the same for its      actions.


Point 2 Training:
        UIL does not have access to training materials for football, they may for other sports but not for football. Training should be done by those who have been there and done that. That said until this year TASO has been lax for the last few years in providing training materials. Hopefully with new leadership this will continue.

Point 3 Playoff games:
        The coaches will decide which chapter or crew they want. On those occasions where they cannot agree UIL will assign them just as they have for the last 25 years ( that I know of). Football coaches are not going to let UIL use their diversity standards to assign playoff games.

Point 4 Change:

       Be careful of change, look what it got us in 2008 in national politics. We have not heard what type of "change these ADs want.

Point 5 Other sports.

       I agree that the other sports have brought to where we are. I think had we had a stonger Executive Director at TASO back then we might not be where we are now.

Point 6 Website:

      I agree that our current one does suck bad. Supposedly there is a new one in the works.    
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 2779
  • FAN REACTION: +107/-58
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2010, 11:14:34 AM »
1.  It is my hope that the UIL will hold "problem" officials ACCOUNTABLE - yes, the "A" word.  We have at least two officials in my chapter that are very poor at what they do - no one wants to work with them and they give the chapter and avocation a bad name - they have been removed from other sports officiating groups yet my chapter is scared to do anything to them because they are minorities.  It is a travesty they are still allowed to officiate football.  I think UIL will have the guts to address such officials.

This is a local issue.  The chapter board needs to approve who they allow to be members of the chapter.  If your chapter allows these guys to work games then that is the chapter fault.  We have guys who we don't assign varsity games to because they just can't do a good enough job.  Minority or not, if you can't do the job then we don't allow them on the field.  Regardless if you are UIL or TASO.  As in the past if there was a problem official that the UIL didn't want on the field, all they did was inform TASO and their membership was revoked.  UIL has always had that power and will continue to do so.

Quote
3.  Oversee better allocation of playoff games.  It is the "perception" that the big 3 chapters in Texas get anything they want - the smaller chapter get leftovers or a few games thrown their way to appease the crowd.  My chapter got great games this year - AFTER this mess hit the fan and TASO realized there were other chapters in the state and they were not happy.

TASO does not have the authority to control which chapters got which games.  Coaches have always gone through the UIL when there were disagreements on which chapter to use.  The UIL contacted the chapters directly to assign a chapter.  None if this goes through TASO.  Besides, why is everyone so concerned about the damn playoffs.  Be happy with the 10-12 varsity games you get and then get ready for next season if you don't get a playoff game.





Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2010, 02:30:17 PM »

TASO does not have the authority to control which chapters got which games.  Coaches have always gone through the UIL when there were disagreements on which chapter to use.  The UIL contacted the chapters directly to assign a chapter.  None if this goes through TASO.  Besides, why is everyone so concerned about the damn playoffs.  Be happy with the 10-12 varsity games you get and then get ready for next season if you don't get a playoff game.

If thats the way it happened, then I missed it coach.  ;D  Seriously, it is the thought by many that everything you say in your reply is accurate, with the exception of UIL contacting the chapters directly.  I truly thought UIL contacted TASO State and said they need a crew for playoff xyz - it cant be chapter A or B.  Then - TASO state would contact the chapter of their choice to fill the assignment.  If I am wrong on this - I am wrong.

Offline Etref

  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 2178
  • FAN REACTION: +78/-27
  • " I don't make the rules coach!"
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2010, 02:49:18 PM »
If thats the way it happened, then I missed it coach.  ;D  Seriously, it is the thought by many that everything you say in your reply is accurate, with the exception of UIL contacting the chapters directly.  I truly thought UIL contacted TASO State and said they need a crew for playoff xyz - it cant be chapter A or B.  Then - TASO state would contact the chapter of their choice to fill the assignment.  If I am wrong on this - I am wrong.

UIL does not contact TASO but instead contacts the individual chapter secretary to assign the playoff game (in football, I do not know about other sports)

« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 02:56:30 PM by RickWts »
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8732
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-256
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2010, 03:04:19 PM »
If thats the way it happened, then I missed it coach.  ;D  Seriously, it is the thought by many that everything you say in your reply is accurate, with the exception of UIL contacting the chapters directly.  I truly thought UIL contacted TASO State and said they need a crew for playoff xyz - it cant be chapter A or B.  Then - TASO state would contact the chapter of their choice to fill the assignment.  If I am wrong on this - I am wrong.

You are wrong.  Just as someone was wrong when they said coaches will not permit the UIL "diversity standards".  When the UIL tells a chapter they have a game, they (UIL) often tell them what the crew's ethnic compostion must be, regardless of whether or not the coaches asked for it.

Some of your other issues with TASO were wrong also and points out some issues possibly within you Chapter that need to be addressed before you start finding fault at the state level.

Offline Welpe

  • *
  • Posts: 1860
  • FAN REACTION: +28/-11
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2010, 03:45:54 PM »
Point 3 Playoff games:
        The coaches will decide which chapter or crew they want. On those occasions where they cannot agree UIL will assign them just as they have for the last 25 years ( that I know of). Football coaches are not going to let UIL use their diversity standards to assign playoff games.

Diversity standards as in we need x number of officials of this race and x number of officials of this race in a crew?  If so that already happens.

I realize this is idle speculation, but the UIL will have a ready made source of training material for football.  That source is the National Federation.  Something to chew on.

Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2010, 04:23:41 PM »
UIL does not contact TASO but instead contacts the individual chapter secretary to assign the playoff game (in football, I do not know about other sports)

Then I'll be the first to admit my understanding was wrong on this issue.  And yes Mike, some issues should be handled at the local TASO chapter level, some at the state TASO level. 

My chapter has not made a decision on which organization they will endorse.