Author Topic: Who is in Who is out?  (Read 75192 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

rickref

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #125 on: September 22, 2010, 07:33:36 AM »
Any word on yesterdays meeting?

Offline HoustonUmp

  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-0
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #126 on: September 22, 2010, 08:56:43 AM »
The following was sent to Houston members this morning from Tommy Moore, our chapter secretary:

I was invited as a Representative of the Houston Chapter to a meeting in Austin yesterday. In attendance was the UIL staff, members of the Legislative Council, Head of the AD's Association, Heads of the Coaches Association, and TASO representatives from the Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, San Antonio, and Houston Chapters as well as the TASO Executive Director and TASO Football Division President.

This was the first time I felt we made some progress in understanding each others position.

Mike Fitch, TASO Executive Director and Tony Timmons, UIL Director of Officials, are going to put out a joint statement summerising the meeting, what was talked about, and the facts that both sides agree on.

We have invited Tony Timmons to our General Chapter Meeting on Monday October 18 at the Campbell Center.

Please send me a list of the questions and topics you want him to address. I will compile the list, send it to him, and ask him to cover these at our meeting.

It is extreemly important that even though we may disagree on some issues, we respect treat him as our guest.

At this time we are still in a holding mode as to UIL registeration until we receive the joint statement. At that time we will have a Board Meeting and give you a recommendation.

You are now and always have been free to make your own decision as to what you want to do.


Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #127 on: September 22, 2010, 01:44:03 PM »
Based on the lack of responses to this latest development - sounds like everyone is keeping the contents of the meeting pretty close to the vest. 

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8762
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-265
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #128 on: September 22, 2010, 01:49:13 PM »
Or waiting for the joint statement

rickref

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #129 on: September 22, 2010, 01:50:12 PM »
Just waiting.

Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2010, 01:55:57 PM »
Or waiting for the joint statement

Do you think the joint statement will be this week?

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 2905
  • FAN REACTION: +112/-58
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #131 on: September 22, 2010, 02:20:04 PM »
Just waiting.

Now I am getting curious.  Starting to lean towards you did last week in wondering why the rest of the chapters weren't consulted.  At least consult them now before a decision is made.

rickref

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #132 on: September 22, 2010, 02:49:13 PM »
Jason, Fitch did call us and tell us that it was a quick meeting and best was to get a lot of folks together was based on proximity thats all.

When you can buzz me.

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1861
  • FAN REACTION: +98/-26
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #133 on: September 22, 2010, 03:44:05 PM »
Purely speculation on my part, but I think what will happen is that we all have to register this year, for free this time around.  TASO chapters will get to remain TASO chapters, but can decide to bail and go with UIL.  But, everyone must register to be eligible for varsity games and playoffs.  I can think of maybe 2 or 3 chapters that might go with UIL.  I just hope they get an agreement that TASO chapters will not be cut out of UIL assigned game in the playoffs.

I can live with that, but then let's see what happens next year.

Offline Etref

  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 2291
  • FAN REACTION: +85/-28
  • " I don't make the rules coach!"
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #134 on: September 22, 2010, 03:57:17 PM »
The only thing about an "agreement" with these folks is they tend to forget them as time goes on.
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1861
  • FAN REACTION: +98/-26
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #135 on: September 22, 2010, 04:08:44 PM »
The only thing about an "agreement" with these folks is they tend to forget them as time goes on.


Ain't that the truth!!!!!

texref

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #136 on: September 22, 2010, 05:09:27 PM »
Purely speculation on my part, but I think what will happen is that we all have to register this year, for free this time around.  TASO chapters will get to remain TASO chapters, but can decide to bail and go with UIL.  But, everyone must register to be eligible for varsity games and playoffs.  I can think of maybe 2 or 3 chapters that might go with UIL.  I just hope they get an agreement that TASO chapters will not be cut out of UIL assigned game in the playoffs.

I can live with that, but then let's see what happens next year.

I wonder what would happen with the newly filed lawsuit against Dr. B in that case.

Offline Arbitrator

  • Chief Manor Road Pig Poker
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-10
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #137 on: September 22, 2010, 08:27:01 PM »
 ^flag

I've heard rumors that the lawsuit had been filed or was, at least, in the works. I'm beginning to have doubts that that has indeed happened or will happen anytime in the near future. Given that, this is the primary reason that the  :!# Dancing Monkey has been extended a dancing engagement at Campbell Center on Monday, October 18th before the Houston Chapter. Lest we should remember that this was exactly the same locale where the  tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and Timmons helped in hijacking the Houston TASO Basketball Chapter into vacating TASO and joining-up forces with the UIL. Unlike basketball, The Houston TASO Football Chapter does not have a President or any other officer that I'm remotely aware of that has been a former student or player of Dr. B at some juncture in their life, and I really think that there will be the potential for a lot of peanuts being hurled his way in the form of some rather embarrassing questions for the  :!#  Dancing Monkey to attempt to skirt around. If he cannot adequately explain the UIL's position, there are more than enough disgruntled folks that will happily walk out of there choosing to embrace the status quo.

Let's do keep in mind that Mr. Timmons was the first choice of the  tiphat: Good UIL Dr. to head up its Officials Division. Here is a guy that has never called a football game, couldn't tell you one end of the football from the other, or even the point values of football scores unless they were given to him in a multiple choice format.

If we must acquiese to their Registration demand, then it should solely be on TASO's terms: A legal contract stipulating that  UIL Registration for all TASO members will remain totally
free indefinitely, and it can be done on paper as well as electronically submitted. And even then, that should be done through the TASO website for the TASO leadership to submit to the UIL. Another item is that the UIL will leave the competing coaches free to agree on possible crews for all playoff games with UIL input only allowable on UIL assignments, much as it currently is.

If for any reason that the UIL refuses to adhere to this proposal it should be construed as a clear signal that the UIL is only flexing its muscle solely for monetary gain. The only advice that I can offer our TASO leadership is to exercise extreme caution when dealing with rattlesnakes!   z^

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8762
  • FAN REACTION: +229/-265
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #138 on: September 22, 2010, 09:09:49 PM »
From Bill Fecci =

My Fellow Officials,
As some of you may have already heard the Football Division had requested a meeting with Mr. Tony Timmons, UIL Director of Officials and any staff members including Dr. Breithaupt that could attend. The primary purpose was to discuss the registration of Football Officials.  This meeting occurred yesterday. In addition to Michael Fitch, Executive Director of TASO and myself, the assigning secretaries of the five largest Chapters were invited as representatives from TASO Football. In that we expected only Mr. Timmons and perhaps one other representative from UIL staff would be in attendance we did not want a large contingent to appear we were ganging up. As often happens with these meetings, unexpected events from one side or the other often occur. This meeting would be no exception. To our surprise, a pleasant one I might add, we were met with an approximate seventeen member group to sit down and have an open discussion with us. This group was comprised of members from UIL staff Dr. Breithaupt, Cliff Odenwald, Tony Timmons and Dr. Mark Cousins, Superintendents representing their own Districts as well a the Legislative Council, Presidents from the Athletic Directors Association, the Basketball Coaches Association, the Baseball Coaches Association, the Executive Director from the Girl’s Coaching Association, the IPP from the Athletic Directors Association and an Associate Athletic Director from a school district.
I mentioned this was a pleasant surprise, because we have for years asked that members of TASO could be afforded the opportunity to sit and discuss face to face with members of these organizations. To my knowledge this was the first time that a group of this composition has had the opportunity, in an informal setting, to discuss mutual concerns. Because of this meeting I believe all have a little better understanding of each others position.
A statement coauthored by Mike Fitch and Tony Timmons will be released summarizing this meeting, giving some clarification from the UIL about officials registration, and a factual listing of points we all agree on. Please give them some time to accomplish this task. It will be done as soon as both men’s schedules will accommodate.
As of yet, the registration deadline with the UIL is still November 1, 2010. The decision to register is a private free choice matter each of us must deal with on our own. I would encourage all of you to take the time to collect as much information about the registration process and what options are afforded each member. The deadline is still some 30 days away and you have time to do your investigation. Hopefully, once you receive the communiqué from Mike and Tony, the information you will receive will help you make a more informed decision.
Hope your season is going well. Please be assured I will keep you as informed as I can with factual not hearsay information as I acquire it.
Bill Fecci
President TASO Football

Offline Etref

  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 2291
  • FAN REACTION: +85/-28
  • " I don't make the rules coach!"
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #139 on: September 23, 2010, 07:36:27 AM »
Well, I don't think the UIL server melted overnight with people signing up!


I will look at the joint statement and then make a last minute decision. Depending on what the letter says and what other information I can glean between now and then will make my determination. As long as it is a list of officials only and we are still under TASO for training, discipline, code of etihics, etc, I am okay. But it is entails us working directly for Timmons or Breithaupt.................... count me out!
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Arbitrator

  • Chief Manor Road Pig Poker
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-10
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #140 on: September 23, 2010, 10:08:57 AM »
Well, I don't think the UIL server melted overnight with people signing up!


I will look at the joint statement and then make a last minute decision. Depending on what the letter says and what other information I can glean between now and then will make my determination. As long as it is a list of officials only and we are still under TASO for training, discipline, code of etihics, etc, I am okay. But it is entails us working directly for Timmons or Breithaupt.................... count me out!

 ^flag

I would only support a registration process whose costs would be strictly borne by the Good Folks over there on Manor Road. So long as it resembles the UIL COPE Program, I can live with it. Background checks are OK too, so long as the UIL picks up the full tab; but that must be done through TASO's auspices with absolutely no monetary contribution for it by TASO. All of this would have to be done with the blessings of both the TASO State Board and it's Football Board, as well as having procured individual chapter approvals. Otherwise, it's back to the courtroom, the litigation, and the restraining orders!   z^

Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #141 on: September 23, 2010, 10:47:15 AM »
^flag

I would only support a registration process whose costs would be strictly borne by the Good Folks over there on Manor Road. So long as it resembles the UIL COPE Program, I can live with it. Background checks are OK too, so long as the UIL picks up the full tab; but that must be done through TASO's auspices with absolutely no monetary contribution for it by TASO. All of this would have to be done with the blessings of both the TASO State Board and it's Football Board, as well as having procured individual chapter approvals. Otherwise, it's back to the courtroom, the litigation, and the restraining orders!   z^

And they must pay my mortgage, wash my car, purchase me new shoes, and pay for my kids college.  Otherwise, I'll take them to court again so I can lose more of my members money to attorney's.   yEs:

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1861
  • FAN REACTION: +98/-26
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #142 on: September 23, 2010, 10:59:16 AM »
Cooter we've discussed this many times before.  If TASO were to cease to exist, what do you think happens with the money they have in the bank?  They are a 501-c-3 organization (or some variation), so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals.  We might as well spend every penny defending TASO and keeping our independence as officials.

Cooter

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #143 on: September 23, 2010, 11:08:04 AM »
Cooter we've discussed this many times before.  If TASO were to cease to exist, what do you think happens with the money they have in the bank?  They are a 501-c-3 organization (or some variation), so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals.  We might as well spend every penny defending TASO and keeping our independence as officials.

My position is that I would rather TASO spend my dues money on training, updating the website, etc...I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it.  Even IF TASO were to fold up - I would still rather them spend my dues money on Officials rather than Attorney's. 

Offline Arbitrator

  • Chief Manor Road Pig Poker
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-10
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #144 on: September 23, 2010, 11:26:05 AM »
My position is that I would rather TASO spend my dues money on training, updating the website, etc...I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it.  Even IF TASO were to fold up - I would still rather them spend my dues money on Officials rather than Attorney's.  

 ^flag

Coot: It's called hard-line negotiating. We negotiate for the best thing that TASO can possibly reap from all of this mess. I don't know if reality has set in with you lately, but TASO is in the fight for its life. We may as well have the resources available for litigation, for without it, TASO really doesn't stand a prayer.

I will not be a party to nor will I ever acknowledge the leadership role of anybody over there on Manor Road. To do so would only make me look like some of the "TASO lemmings" who are willing to jump into the deep UIL Sea because they covet a playoff game or two. Without TASO, the avocation of high school officiating will severely go down the tubes to the whims and pleasures of the  tiphat: Good UIL Dr. and his  :!# Dancing Monkey!   z^
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 11:27:59 AM by arbitrator »

Offline Getting Fat

  • *
  • Posts: 192
  • FAN REACTION: +5/-6
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #145 on: September 23, 2010, 11:55:07 AM »
"I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it."

Have you watched the youtube video of Timmons speech?  Seen the changes to Rule 1204?  Also, Timmons is now referring to TASO as "the former association."

"Without TASO, the avocation of high school officiating will severely go down the tubes to the whims and pleasures of the   Good UIL Dr. and his  Wow Dancing Monkey!   "

Well said.  TASO, based on NFL , BCS conference, Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, and Championship Game representation, is the MOST SUCCESSFUL high school officials group in the country.  Use any measure you want - TASO is the best in the country.  Could it better?  Of course.  Will it be better under the UIL?  Probably not.

"so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals"  -  well, technically it could, but the administrative cost of refunding that money would probably swallow up more money than the attorneys.

The UIL is a state agency.  A state agency cannot be sued for breach of contract.  Go ahead, signup for 10 years of "free registration" - you will have zero recourse when the UIL charges you $100 next year, says you have to be at subvarsity games two hours early, dictates who you work with, ignores chapter geographical boundaries, and drops your pay in half.  Think that across the board state cuts won't affect our pay?  TASO has always negotiated for us, but who will when TASO ceases to exist and you have to turn to Timmons and Breithaupt for improvement in pay, conditions and so forth?

This is a fight for what is right - the freedom to associate with whomever we choose, freedom from unneeded governmental regulation, freedom of choice...  It is a fight TASO must take head on.

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1861
  • FAN REACTION: +98/-26
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #146 on: September 23, 2010, 12:00:19 PM »
"so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals"  -  well, technically it could, but the administrative cost of refunding that money would probably swallow up more money than the attorneys.

GF - not according to the law.

504coach

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #147 on: September 23, 2010, 12:25:16 PM »
"I'm not thinking TASO will cease to exist because i've not seen anything proposed by UIL that would do away with it."

Have you watched the youtube video of Timmons speech?  Seen the changes to Rule 1204?  Also, Timmons is now referring to TASO as "the former association."

"Without TASO, the avocation of high school officiating will severely go down the tubes to the whims and pleasures of the   Good UIL Dr. and his  Wow Dancing Monkey!   "

Well said.  TASO, based on NFL , BCS conference, Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, and Championship Game representation, is the MOST SUCCESSFUL high school officials group in the country.  Use any measure you want - TASO is the best in the country.  Could it better?  Of course.  Will it be better under the UIL?  Probably not.

"so the money cannot go back to members or any individuals"  -  well, technically it could, but the administrative cost of refunding that money would probably swallow up more money than the attorneys.

The UIL is a state agency.  A state agency cannot be sued for breach of contract.  Go ahead, signup for 10 years of "free registration" - you will have zero recourse when the UIL charges you $100 next year, says you have to be at subvarsity games two hours early, dictates who you work with, ignores chapter geographical boundaries, and drops your pay in half.  Think that across the board state cuts won't affect our pay?  TASO has always negotiated for us, but who will when TASO ceases to exist and you have to turn to Timmons and Breithaupt for improvement in pay, conditions and so forth?

This is a fight for what is right - the freedom to associate with whomever we choose, freedom from unneeded governmental regulation, freedom of choice...  It is a fight TASO must take head on.

Excellent Post

I would add a few other points

If we are UIL officials every one of us would be eligible to join a teachers association (union).  They would then advocate for us to be given full state employee rights, and we would then be available to have full due process of state employees.  This would cause 2 horrible consequences to UIL.  Inability to get rid of poor officials (which is one of their main points of contention), and cost (someone or some ten will have to process all of the paperwork not to mention other state employee benefits).

This is a fight to save the UIL from itself.  We are the ones that are keeping the best interest of the Children in mind.  Not the UIL.  They can not see any long term liabilities (both on field and financially) that this is going to effect.

Offline TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1861
  • FAN REACTION: +98/-26
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #148 on: September 23, 2010, 12:36:14 PM »
Excellent Post

I would add a few other points

If we are UIL officials every one of us would be eligible to join a teachers association (union).  They would then advocate for us to be given full state employee rights, and we would then be available to have full due process of state employees.  This would cause 2 horrible consequences to UIL.  Inability to get rid of poor officials (which is one of their main points of contention), and cost (someone or some ten will have to process all of the paperwork not to mention other state employee benefits).

This is a fight to save the UIL from itself.  We are the ones that are keeping the best interest of the Children in mind.  Not the UIL.  They can not see any long term liabilities (both on field and financially) that this is going to effect.

The UIL tried to get by this issue in its registration process.  There is a statement that says something about you understanding you are not an employee of the UIL and have no rights as an employee.

No, I have not registered, but I've seen this disclaimer.

504coach

  • Guest
Re: Who is in Who is out?
« Reply #149 on: September 23, 2010, 01:10:55 PM »
The UIL tried to get by this issue in its registration process.  There is a statement that says something about you understanding you are not an employee of the UIL and have no rights as an employee.

No, I have not registered, but I've seen this disclaimer.

That is where the teachers union comes in.  In multiple rulings they have declared that cafeteria workers, secretaries, bus drivers do not have any rights.  This ruling then gets turned over with help of the teachers associations.  It basically does not matter what they claim you are it matters what the courts claim you are.  I still believe the best litigation strategy is a discrimination suit.  Why are they discriminating against sports officials and not requiring UIL One act, band, and debate officials to registrar.  After all the UIL was established to organize Debate officials back in the day.