Author Topic: Please help  (Read 3856 times)

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Offline Punisher K74

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Please help
« on: May 02, 2018, 01:15:33 AM »
I'm from europe and i guess you guys are more expirienced with football rules
We had a debate on the game and after, was that game opening kickoff a touchback ( as it was ruled ) or safety ( as some thinked )
Play starts at 5:05min
Thanks for helping me

https://youtu.be/9FTh6Qy6SU0

Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Please help
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 01:29:42 AM »
I'm from europe and i guess you guys are more expirienced with football rules
We had a debate on the game and after, was that game opening kickoff a touchback ( as it was ruled ) or safety ( as some thinked )
Play starts at 5:05min
Thanks for helping me

https://youtu.be/9FTh6Qy6SU0
Touchback.  It does not matter if NCAA rules set or NFHS rules set.

It is still a kick that goes into and out of the end zone.

Offline Punisher K74

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Re: Please help
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2018, 01:35:38 AM »
Thank you

And i forgot to write it it's NCAA rules

Bigesst debate was that returner did not have possesion ( he just touched the ball, tried to cach it )

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Please help
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2018, 01:40:26 AM »
Status of the ball never changed -- a Free Kick that went into and out of the end zone --- Touchback.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Please help
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2018, 04:07:25 AM »
The only thing that changes in NCAA (and IFAF) rules when the kick is touched by team B in the field of play is that the ball does not become dead immediately when it strikes ground in team B's end zone.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Please help
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2018, 07:13:27 AM »
IMHO, best rule of :thumbup as to muff (=touchback) or catch and fumble (=safety/touchdown K) is : If it was a pass and you would rule it incomplete = muff; if you would have ruled it complete =safety/touchdown.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 09:02:49 AM by Ralph Damren »

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Please help
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2018, 01:42:34 PM »
What everyone else have said is correct, and the correct ruling is touchback.  But I just want to be a bit more precise as to the actual rules.  This was a loose ball that became dead behind a goal line.  The ball was loose from the free kick, and it was dead by going OB.  This is either a touchback or a safety, depending on the team that is responsible for the impetus on the ball at the time it became dead.  Team B's muff of the kick 1) started the game clock, and 2) made it legal for team A to touch the ball (in addition to the ball being well beyond B's restraining line).  But, since Team B didn't gain possession, didn't bat the ball, and didn't kick the ball, nothing else about the ball was changed.  So, when the ball went out of bounds behind B's goal line, the impetus was from Team A's kick.  That is simply a touchback.

Robert

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Please help
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2018, 07:02:04 AM »
In NFHS, a kick becomes dead once it ENTERS the end zone regardless of who or how many may have muffed it prior - that rule supports that kicks cannot be ran out of the end zone. I believe NCAA differs of this.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Please help
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2018, 10:05:13 AM »
In NFHS, a kick becomes dead once it ENTERS the end zone regardless of who or how many may have muffed it prior - that rule supports that kicks cannot be ran out of the end zone. I believe NCAA differs of this.

Yes, one of the more major differences.  For NCAA, if the ball touches the ground in the end zone untouched by B, then that is an instant touchback.  Otherwise, the ball remains alive, even after breaking the plane of the goal line.

Robert


Offline hefnerjm

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Re: Please help
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 10:10:35 AM »
In NFHS, a kick becomes dead once it ENTERS the end zone regardless of who or how many may have muffed it prior - that rule supports that kicks cannot be ran out of the end zone. I believe NCAA differs of this.

Ralph,

In NFHS, are you saying that if a ball is muffed at the 10 yard line, and rolls beyond the goal line, it is a touchback?
I thought it was only a touchback if it entered the EZ untouched by B.
Coach: "I've been doing this 30 years!  I know the rules!"
Ref: "Are you married coach?"
Coach (suddenly offguard): "umm...yeah, why?"
Ref: "I've been married 30 years and my wife says there is still room for improvement"
Coach: "<silence>"

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Please help
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 10:20:17 AM »
Ralph,

In NFHS, are you saying that if a ball is muffed at the 10 yard line, and rolls beyond the goal line, it is a touchback?
I thought it was only a touchback if it entered the EZ untouched by B.
The ole' NFHS adage of : "A KICK IS A KICK, IS A KICK, IS A KICK UNTIL IT'S NOT A KICK ANYMORE". Sorta' like Pi - it's endless. :)

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Please help
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 04:27:43 PM »
The ole' NFHS adage of : "A KICK IS A KICK, IS A KICK, IS A KICK UNTIL IT'S NOT A KICK ANYMORE". Sorta' like Pi - it's endless. :)

As NFHS 2-24-2 tries to tells us, the ONLY 2 things that can cause a kick, to no longer be a kick (and subject to ALL that governs being a kick) is;

1. "A player gains POSSESSION" Doesn't include being [i]MUFFED[/i] (by either team, no matter how many times by either, in how many directions) or TOUCHED (legally, illegally, accidentally, deliberately) etc.

2. "The ball becomes DEAD while NOT in player possession.

3. There is NO 3  

Although 2-24-2 is clear, simple and straightforward, it can often behave as a deeply buried "landmine". One way to avoid confusion in the "heat of the moment" is to specifically clarify whether, AND CONFIRM AND BE SURE HOW that the kick has/or has not ENDED (by 2-24-2 either #1 or #2, exclusively).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 04:30:39 PM by AlUpstateNY »