Video review needed........

[glight]

12U Youth league under GHSA rules..........is the video poster correct in assumptions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvz5doMKSNM

[Grant - AR]

12U Youth league under GHSA rules..........is the video poster correct in assumptions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvz5doMKSNM

Here is my take after watching these plays one time. 

• BIB - no BIB if I'm looking at the right block.  The block I think they were referring to was a side block.
• TD or no? - From the angle provided, it's impossible to tell if the runner was down before crossing the goal line.
• Defense offsides - I think all the players are lined up correctly.
• 34 def BIB - I couldn't see numbers, but I think I know what they are referring to and it shouldn't have been called.  Also, the video says the penalty took the ball from the 39 to the 29.  The ball is clearly snapped from the 24 yard line on the next play.  The half back is lined up on the 30 and he is about 6 yards behind the ball.
• Cut block - I don't know the local rule on that.  It could be illegal as it was low.
• Chop block - no chop block here as the TE didn't try to engage the defender until he was clearly away from the tackle.
• Hold on fullback - good call.  This was at the point of attack and definitely was a restriction.
• DPI - both players are looking at the ball...no DPI.  If you notice, the offensive team is guilty of illegal motion on this play.  As the linemen are going down, the wideout goes in motion and never stops before the snap.

Just my $0.02.

[bama_stripes]

Cut Block -- Although it's clear the RB *tried* to block low, the defender got his hands down.  No-call.

DPI - Both players are going for the ball.  If anything, it's OPI.

[losthog]

I see it the same way you guys do...I thought they did a great job considering it was a youth football game.  Just about par for what I do for a youth game.  They don't want it called by the book every play or the games would never end.

[SanDiegoStryker]

I don't know about great job. I agree with most of the calls, but the mechanics looked really sloppy.

I just thought it was weird that all of these "bad calls" were against only one team. 

[Tom.OH]

I just thought it was weird that all of these "bad calls" were against only one team. 

Funny thing is it happens all the time. Just ONCE I would like to hear a coach let the officials know they missed a hold by his player.

[James]

Well, I was going to go through them all, and noticed Grant wrote EXACTLY the points I was going to make, even with the same wording in some cases.
I would say that the first one was not only not a block in back (or side), but it was from in frront of the shoulder.
And that I think it should be an illegal shift not illegal motion...

[RickKY]

Here is my take after watching these plays one time. 

• BIB - no BIB if I'm looking at the right block.  The block I think they were referring to was a side block.
• TD or no? - From the angle provided, it's impossible to tell if the runner was down before crossing the goal line.
• Defense offsides - I think all the players are lined up correctly.
• 34 def BIB - I couldn't see numbers, but I think I know what they are referring to and it shouldn't have been called.  Also, the video says the penalty took the ball from the 39 to the 29.  The ball is clearly snapped from the 24 yard line on the next play.  The half back is lined up on the 30 and he is about 6 yards behind the ball.
• Cut block - I don't know the local rule on that.  It could be illegal as it was low.
• Chop block - no chop block here as the TE didn't try to engage the defender until he was clearly away from the tackle.
• Hold on fullback - good call.  This was at the point of attack and definitely was a restriction.
• DPI - both players are looking at the ball...no DPI.  If you notice, the offensive team is guilty of illegal motion on this play.  As the linemen are going down, the wideout goes in motion and never stops before the snap.

Just my $0.02.

#3:  Am I picking nits or did orange 34 go in motion toward the LOS?

[BoBo]

Play 1- It was a BIB now you have to evaluate how much influence on the play does it have. Maybe pass but if the runner would have cut back now it does have an influence on the play. I could live with passing

Play 2- TD or not is a tough call because the angle. Maybe had a knee down before ball crosses the plane, to hard to tell.

Play 3- Offsides. Couple items to look at. One it appears the center touches the ball then lifts his hands off. Pretty ticky tack I know but this thread has put as ticky tack observing. Second #34s motion does not look legal, he is either going forward or is on the line in motion. Both illegal. Finally I dont feel the defense is encroaching.

Play 4- Defense BIB this from what i see on film i agree I dont see anything in regards to a BIB

Play 5- 15 yard enforcement was placed on wrong yard line.

Play 6- Low block on HB contact was at thigh pad and defense defended themselves with arms extended. No foul

Play 7- You cant throw a flag for something that did not happen. No chop block

Play 8- Holding. Not on the fullback but on the left half back, you can see when the runner gets to the same level the defense can not turn his shoulder as he is being held.

Play 9- DPI  Both players making a play on the ball. If anything offense runs up his back.

I will now make an educated guess that your team loss the game. I am also miffed if they were really that bad of a crew how ironic they never missed any calls against the opposing team in this case yours.

I am sure when your kids are done playing that you already have plans to step up and be an official for this league.

Not to belittle the crew at all but there is probably a reason they are working youth games. New officials learning the game as officials as well. So you better expect some of this.

Dont expect the Ed Hochulis, Mike Careys, or Steve Shaws to work these games.

Coach your kids tell them to play thru the adversity and become better.

On a side note to help these officials get better maybe you or the league can provide the officials with a complete game tape for their viewing as well.

I am sure they want to improve as well.

Thanks 

[bama_stripes]

Play 5- 15 yard enforcement was placed on wrong yard line.

Look again.  The play ended on the 39, the next snap was from the 24.

[BoBo]

Bama I apologize the 15 yard penalty was enforced correctly 39-15=24.

So I guess this crew got this call correct also.

[Grant - AR]

#3:  Am I picking nits or did orange 34 go in motion toward the LOS?

Picking nits?  Yes (especially at this level), but true.   

[glight]

Thanks guys for your reviews.........I don't profess to know all rules or anything like that but to ask a couple of questions about your responses............

1. I agree with bobo (no call)
2. I agree with bobo and grant after viewing it on a larger screen.
3. From all angles the NT helmet is almost touching the centers and the LB is definitely in the neutral zone.........what does that have to do with center........he angles the ball to snap it?
4. The ref called BIB on #34 he's in the center of the screen he called that because he saw a offensive guy go down......u can see 34 bump into him, then jump over him after the off player falls during an attempted block. And yeah i miscalculated on the spot......
5. Straight from the GHSA rule book is the following along with this www.ghsa.net/files/documents/2010_GHSA_PART_II_STUDY_GUIDE.pdf

"ILLEGAL BLOCKS
*Blocking below the waist is illegal anywhere except in the FBZ.
*Any snap that immediately leaves the FBZ (shotgun) limits the A linemen
to only being able to block below the waist if they are in a 3-point,
(or 4-point stance), and only if that block is straight ahead and immediately
after the snap. No stutter step and no reach blocks. "

So no matter that the defender got his hands down he cant go low if he didnt start that way and is not in the FBZ.


7. I read the definition wrong I guess where it said timing was not important and also that block can only occur tackle to tackle not.........tackle to TE

8. Left half/full back engaged sealed him and let him go.........kinda close to me.

9. So defender didnt impede his progress to the ball by getting in his way then stopping?

Yes......we lost the game as it was officiated and I found it odd that the majority of calls made where against my team and I can let judgement calls go but when I see obvious calls against the other team not being called then I must question either competency or integrity ....now as a coach I review those calls to help my kids get better and to teach them to play the game correctly.....now that first BIB the official called was on #50 our center who we got onto at the game only to find out it was the guard.......remember this was only a snippet of the game it got worse for the orange team.......Thanks again for your time in reviewing the video and your comments.........how do we make those motion plays legal?

 

[AlUpstateNY]

You might consider focusing your attention, while reviewing films, on the execution of your players and their competence in following your instructions and waste a lot less of your attention critiquing the game officials.  You can accomplish a lot more correcting mistakes of your players through constructive teaching than you ever will achieve nit picking, what you perceive, as mistakes by officials in not fulfilling exact technical requirements, as you interpret them, long after the fact.

[Grant - AR]

how do we make those motion plays legal?

Coach, on the last play, the linemen are still going down when the receiver goes in motion.  Since the receiver never got set after that, it was illegal.  If the receiver will wait until the linemen are set, you will be in good shape. 

The other play that was mentioned was a receiver going in motion towards the line of scrimmage.  It wasn't too bad for this level of play, but just make sure he goes straight down the line or towards the backfield to be perfectly legal.

[Jmuvol]

Coach,

Let me first say that it is refreshing that you are asking for assistance and attempting to learn the rules.  I wish more youth coaches in my area of GA would do that.

With that said, I would tell you to look at getting an actual Federation rule book.  The information that you Quoted from the GHSA was off of a study guide for the Part 2 test.  To get a better idea of the way we actually call situations, the rule book and case book would be a better guide.  GHSA believes that they do everything better here in GA.

I enjoyed the video presentation.  Looks like it took quite a bit of work.  If possible, post some of the of the no-calls on the other team.  As you have probably found, our goal is for officials as a whole to improve.  So we don't always agree with our brethren.  Just hope to assist in them getting better.

Finally, I understand the frustration of youth coaches.  As stated previously, you will get younger refs.  In my area of GA we work on sending an experienced official with the younger ones to help with their progression.  But no matter the skill level of the officials, we don't care who wins.  We are not, as they like to yell in my area, "cheating the kids."  We truly don't sit around at night and think up ways to screw over 12 year old kids.

Good luck with your season and your study of the rules.

[bama_stripes]

So no matter that the defender got his hands down he cant go low if he didnt start that way and is not in the FBZ.

That's not correct.  If the initial contact is with the defender's hands, it's not illegal.

9. So defender didnt impede his progress to the ball by getting in his way then stopping?

Both players have a right to catch the ball.  Pretend the blue player is on offense & the orange player is on defense, and watch the play again.  Now it probably looks like PI on the orange player, if anything.

Good luck with the rest of your season.