Author Topic: Scrimmage Kick  (Read 4768 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-9
Scrimmage Kick
« on: May 16, 2015, 09:33:00 AM »
In FL, teams are allowed one intra-squad game (we call them color games) and one regular game versus another school (Spring Classic).  These are happening now, so we're getting a little taste of football in May.

I worked a color game yesterday and the coach asked me about his punt formation.  He has a couple of trick plays that he runs on 4th down depending on how the defense lines up and what the potential kicker sees.  On every potential punt play, the kicker will line up 8 yards behind the LoS.

He asked me if the roughing the kicker rules or interpretation change because his kid is lined up 8 yards deep rather than the usual 10 yards.  I told him that if the kid is 8 yards deep, and he catches the snap, and immediately kicks the ball, any RTK foul would be called the same as if he lined up 10 (or 12, or 14) yards deep.  But if the kid starts moving around, and the defense is not certain that he is going to kick, unavoidable contact with the kicker may not be called RTK.

I also told him that having the kicker 8 yards deep does not meet the definition of a scrimmage formation, so, by rule, his snapper isn't protected.

Did I get these right?

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2015, 10:47:45 AM »
You were correct in what you told the coach; but don't forget the numbering exception is also not applicable if they are not in a scrimmage kick formation.  I would bet some of the coach's "trick plays" involve that issue ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Offline FLAHL

  • *
  • Posts: 900
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-9
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2015, 01:01:12 PM »
Nice catch Curious. I completely forgot about that one.

Offline HLinNC

  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • FAN REACTION: +133/-24
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2015, 12:27:11 PM »
Ahhhh, coaches...................... hEaDbAnG

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 09:25:35 AM »
FLAHL illustrated the importance of preventive officiating. Explaining the down side to the "trick play" will often kill the coach's desire to try it. A couple of years ago this occurred it one of my games :
 COACH : "On a kick try we'll have the holder in a 'catcher's crouch' ; he'll take the snap and without standing, pitch the ball forward to......"
 RESPONSE : "That part would be legal, coach, BUT your snapper would lose his protection and you couldn't use the numbering exception - will you have 5 linemen numbered between 50 and 79?"
 COACH : " 'Spect not, so it ain't gonna' work ????"
 RESPONSE : " AYUH, we'd hit ya' with a fiver for illegal numbering 8]"
 COACH : "AYUH, 'spect I need to think that play over for a week or two :-[."
 RESPONSE : "AYUH, 'spect that would be smart coach :)."

                           .....and the band played on tiphat:

Offline dch

  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • FAN REACTION: +9/-1
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2015, 01:10:59 PM »
If the "holder" doesn't have his knee on the ground, but the "kicker" is at least 10 yds deep and in position to receive along snap (neither needs to be straight behind the snapper) doesn't this fit the definition of a scrimmage kick formation.  Wouldn't the numbering exception be in effect?

Offline HLinNC

  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • FAN REACTION: +133/-24
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2015, 01:40:58 PM »
No it does not.

a. A player is in position with a knee on the ground 7 yards or more behind the line of scrimmage, in position to be the holder and receive the long snap and with another player 3 yards or less behind that player in position to attempt a place kick, or

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 02:30:14 PM »
When we tweaked the definition of scrimmage kick formation a few years ago ,we tried to word it so only scrimmage kicks would be conveniently made from it. Alas, the holder needs to have his knee on the ground - we didn't want to try to defining : crouching, slouching, bending over, hiding & the like. the kicker needs to 3 yards or under behind the holder and not  positioned as a wideout. Both needed to be in position to receive the snap and kick the ball. Tricks left were few. tiphat:

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: Scrimmage Kick
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2015, 02:41:18 PM »
Tricks left were few.

They way they're trying to get around that is to have the holder rise into a crouch as soon as the snap starts.  Most are notably unsuccessful at doing so.