UIL or TASO

[blindref757]

I think he is a troll.  Someone who couldn't perform and was kicked out of his TASO chapter.  Now after reading his promised to negotiate prices, I would bet that he was part of that group who got caught soliciting for playoff games.  I have yet to read any of his posts where he is actually trying to help other officials in improving their game.  Not one time have I seen him responding to any rules questions on here. 

I've reported him TWICE this week for trolling.  Where is Grant!!!

[Grant - AR]

I think he is a troll.  Someone who couldn't perform and was kicked out of his TASO chapter.  Now after reading his promised to negotiate prices, I would bet that he was part of that group who got caught soliciting for playoff games.  I have yet to read any of his posts where he is actually trying to help other officials in improving their game.  Not one time have I seen him responding to any rules questions on here. 

I've reported him TWICE this week for trolling.  Where is Grant!!!

I have checked on the things you reported, blindref, and I didn't think it was too bad.  I actually thought he was making a couple of jokes with some of the stuff he has posted recently (I did delete a couple of things a month or so ago by him).  I try to stay away from the state-specific threads...too many folks feel very passionately about these things and I have no dog in the hunt.

Jason, you are right that he hasn't responded to any rules questions.  I checked his previous posts and all of them have been in three threads dealing with TASO and/or the UIL.

[TXMike]

He is harmless.  It is not the vocal yokels we need to be concerned with.  It is that "silent majority" we need to focus on.

[Getting Fat]

I agree TXMike.  I have a hard time believing that anyone would be moved one way or another by anything that ornery says.  At a time when we need to stick together to hold onto whatever power/independence we can, it is not the loudest borderline illiterate idiot on the other side we need worry about.

That said, any thoughts on what percentage will register?  Come November 1, what membership percentage do we need to have securely in TASO's corner to put some weight behind a threatened shortage of officials?  If 0% signup with the UIL, TASO will be holding all the chips come reckoning day.  If 100% signup with the UIL, TASO is done.  The result will be somewhere in the middle.  There is a number, and I bet the UIL knows it, where they will say, "we have enough football officials signed up to cover the games, therefore we don't need anything from TASO."  What that number is escapes me.

[TXMike]

60-80  could handle the SA area varsity that last weekend.  Wpuld require schools to be wiling to move their friday game to Thurs or Sat.  Subvars would have to be worked by coaches or canvelled.

[Getting Fat]

I was hoping the number would be bigger.  Will they reach that threshold?  I hope not.  It's really not asking too much from the membership to not register and see what happens.  Worst case scenario for those loyal the organization that has brought them this far, is that those officials miss one week of regular season play and the playoffs.  I don't think that's too much to ask. 

[jeffreff]

Would uil support a district/school/player or a crew like Florida seems to have done in this quick story? Just saying........
Wether you agree with the action during the game or not, how the wannabees handle a situation like this bears a little thought. Doncha think?
P.S. Interesting name for the Dwyer coach?

Nick O'Leary suspended 2 games

PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla. -- The grandson of Jack Nicklaus -- one of the nation's top football recruits -- was suspended for two games by Florida officials for making an obscene gesture toward the stands after a game in Ohio.
Nick O'Leary, a tight end for Palm Beach Gardens Dwyer in Florida, could have faced as much as a six-week suspension for an "unsportsmanlike act," the Florida High School Athletic Association said Thursday.
O'Leary was disciplined after Dwyer played Cleveland Glenville High on Monday, a game Glenville won 26-22. Television replays showed Dwyer, the reigning Florida Class 4A champions, twice scored what should have been a go-ahead touchdown in the final moments. Replays of a third possible touchdown on a quarterback sneak were inconclusive.
Later Thursday, the Palm Beach Post reported that athletic director Tom Pagley said Dwyer would seek a one-game reduction to O'Leary's suspension. Dwyer also said the team would not forfeit its next two games.
"In my opinion, we'll be playing those games," Pagley said.
O'Leary is not allowed to play while the appeal is under consideration.
"We think [the suspension is] a bunch of crap," Dwyer coach Jack Daniels said, according to the Palm Beach Post. "There are no repercussions for the adults who made the calls on the field, but there is for an 18-year-old kid who reacted in the heat of the moment.
"You have a kid who has busted his butt since August. He played 140 snaps against Glenville, on both sides, punting and returning kicks. He was frustrated."
According to the Post's report, O'Leary was disciplined -- but not suspended -- by the team.
"We handled it internally. Nick knew he was wrong," Daniels told the newspaper.
Late in Monday's game, officials ruled a Dwyer receiver was out of bounds and not in the end zone on the first debated play, despite replays showing otherwise. The other two plays were runs near the goal line, including one on the final play of the game.
O'Leary gestured as his team was leaving the field. Television cameras captured the act and have replayed it
O'Leary is the top-rated tight end in the ESPN 150 class of 2011 recruits and rated the 12th overall prospect. He had nine catches for 152 yards in the game with a touchdown. He's considering Miami, Florida State and Alabama, among other schools.

[504coach]

I think he is a troll.  Someone who couldn't perform and was kicked out of his TASO chapter.  Now after reading his promised to negotiate prices, I would bet that he was part of that group who got caught soliciting for playoff games.  I have yet to read any of his posts where he is actually trying to help other officials in improving their game.  Not one time have I seen him responding to any rules questions on here. 

I have never replied to a rules question either.  I simply do not have the knowledge base that everyone of you do.  I do read all of the discussions and attempt to learn as much as possible and as soon as I see one where I know the rule I will reply really quickly.

[TxGrayhat]

ME  2     504         

[Arbitrator]

He is harmless.  It is not the vocal yokels we need to be concerned with.  It is that "silent majority" we need to focus on.

 

The UIL strategy in basketball was to divide and conquer... by threatening to divide the younger echelon officials against the more dedicated TASO veterans, by letting them know that if the veterans are not around to work their varsity schedules, then those games would simply go by default to the  "newbies" including playoff games, regionals, et. al. They will continue to use that same mantra here in football.

Now if we can passionately seek to keep the TASO base of UIL Registration at less than 25%, then I honestly believe that we can place Good Time Charlie and the Waltzing Innkeeper firmly between a rock and a hard place, effective on Week 10.  Little Tony would be having to knock on a hell of a lot of doors to find even more neophytes for playoff games, and having to do that at that juncture, would serve to greatly enrage the Superintendents, and the the Athletic Directors, not to even mention the football coaches.

To stay one step ahead of them, we need to try to visualize exactly what kind of concessions that the UIL would then try to make, just to keep its ship afloat and remain credible all at the same time. After all, I don't think they can exactly garner a court order forcing the TASO veterans to work their games, so the only feasible thing I can envision is that they'll throw massive amounts of money out there for the veterans to effectively register with them and work those playoff games. Anyone else care to digress on the possibilities? We need to brainstorm all of the possible scenarios!  

[TexDoc]

We are independent contractors so a court order holds no water.  I don't have a contract for services until I show up at the school and hand them a pay sheet.  With no contract, I don't have to work any games.  But, I may have to pay a fine to the chapter.

[Dr.G]

I will be interested in how the IRS views the UIL assumption of control over officials. There is a fine line between independent contractor and employee. With the UIL dictating compensation, assignments, and disciplinary control, it sure sounds like an employer/employee relationship.

[Welpe]

I will be interested in how the IRS views the UIL assumption of control over officials. There is a fine line between independent contractor and employee. With the UIL dictating compensation, assignments, and disciplinary control, it sure sounds like an employer/employee relationship.

Not to carry the UIL's water for them but then the IRS will have to look at a lot of other state associations that control officiating.  Texas truly is the minority when it comes to having a wholly separate official's association.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing mind you.

[TXMike]

Looking at the registration form it looks like they realize the possible problem also.  They are making ea guy acknoWlege he is an ind contractor. That will help but not guaranteee UIL stay protected   

[Etref]

I just received yet another friggin email from UIL inviting me to register.

Sent back another reply asking them to remove my name from their email list, this time in  18 font red.

As long as Timmons is involved and TASO is not they will get the same reply.

[JasonTX]

Not to carry the UIL's water for them but then the IRS will have to look at a lot of other state associations that control officiating.  Texas truly is the minority when it comes to having a wholly separate official's association.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing mind you.

TASO serves a position sort of like a workers union.  UIL has always had jurisdiction over officiating.  If they had a problem with an official the UIL had all the power needed to remove that person from officiating.  They just went through TASO.  TASO is our voice to the UIL.  But now UIL wants to remove that voice and be in a direct relationship with our chapters.  If we had a problem with the UIL, we went through TASO, who then approached the UIL.  If UIL gets their way, officials will be without a voice.  It's not much different than the NFL officials belonging to their union. 

[Welpe]

I see it as a little different because we are not members of the UIL, we are members of TASO.  We happen to service the UIL and TAPPS.  I don't disagree that TASO is our voice and I like the way officiating is setup in Texas (well for the most part but that's another thread).  All I'm pointing out is that from an independent contractor angle, what the UIL is trying to do is already done in most states so I doubt the IRS is going to apply any extra scrutiny that they wouldn't have already done elsewhere.

[JasonTX]

I just received yet another friggin email from UIL inviting me to register.

Sent back another reply asking them to remove my name from their email list, this time in  18 font red.

As long as Timmons is involved and TASO is not they will get the same reply.

I think they may be starting to panic over there at the UIL.  I guess they were expecting to see a large inflow of officials with that first email that was sent out.  Apparently the response has be very low so they sent out this second one.  I say we just ignore the emails and let the coaches decide who they want to work for them.  If they want UIL, they will have no officials.  If they want TASO, we will be there ready to work.

[Arbitrator]

I think they may be starting to panic over there at the UIL.  I guess they were expecting to see a large inflow of officials with that first email that was sent out.  Apparently the response has be very low so they sent out this second one.  I say we just ignore the emails and let the coaches decide who they want to work for them.  If they want UIL, they will have no officials.  If they want TASO, we will be there ready to work.

 

Well put, Jason! My sentiments exactly!   

[blindref757]

I've said all along that the coaches could be our biggest advocates in this ordeal.  If the coaches demanded us, they would get us.  But the coaches are buying into the "pie in the sky" accountability promises because a few of them have been burned in the past.  They don't use scratches correctly, (as a whole) they won't take the time to give us effective and fair evaluations, and they are scared to death of the misuse of power that has been wielded at times over them by bad refs. 

This is a perfect storm and we are the only ones that can set our course out of it.  The only way to beat this is unity.  I'm fearful that we don't have that.

[TXMike]

The Blind guy has perfect vision herem. The football coaches alone could bring an end to this.  So far, nothing.
The crazy part is it is not even fb coaches making the most trips to austin, the trips thay some coaches want to see refs making for "accountability". And when you ask them what they mean by accountability, nothing but crickets.

[TxGrayhat]

I must not be on the mailing list>>

[fencewire]

Does TAPPS require that each official register with them or is it done just at the Chapter level? 

I ask because I don't know and have never called a TAPPS game.


For football, if everything stays the same as we know it, and making the HUGE assumption that the registration stays free, what is the biggest issue? Granted, I am a relatively new official and would admit that definitely don't know all of the history, but I would not stay with UIL to "get better games" I am perfectly happy with my current schedule, I would stay because I really enjoy doing it and it isn't something that I am ready to give up yet, at least initially. 

Maybe I am being extremely naive but for right NOW given what we know, it would appear that TASO as an entity would be safe, especially for football...

from their letter

For the purposes of receiving rule books, general liability insurance, directors and officers insurance, testing, training and
education, chapters may determine their affiliation with an organization that provides those services (i.e., UIL, TASO,
etc.).

At least initially, it sounds as though they know that they cannot provide the services that are required for football, unless they move Texas football to the Federation and use the resources provided by the Fed.  I guess for me it is just too early to tell, I don't want to read something into their agenda that may or may not be there.  The free registration does appear to be the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick.  The question remains how long until the carrot is removed and you fall off a cliff.

[Cooter]

Regardless of how all this mess turns out - tonight we will all be on the field doing that which we love.  I hope all of you have safe travels and great games.  Later

[fencewire]

Absolutely!!!