QB Kneel Down At Game End

[J12]

       I saw a game a few weeks ago where a team had the game won and decided to have the QB kneel down to run out the clock.  However, they did this from the usual shotgun (or pistol) formation. The ref immediately threw the flag when the QB kneeled down after recieving the snap in this formation. Does the QB have to line up under center to kneel down on the play?

[maven]

Sounds like the R might have been confused with the IG exception requiring the QB to receive a hand-to-hand snap if he wants to spike it.

No such restriction on the "victory" formation. It's not usually shotgun, since shotgun increases the risk of a muffed snap and backs the offense up farther each down. But it's not illegal.

[Atlanta Blue]

Exactly how the Atlanta Falcons ended the game against Tampa Bay on Sunday.

Since the Bucs have been known to still try to attack on these plays, the Falcons had Ryan take the snap in a shotgun to protect him from getting hit.  Perfectly legal in all codes.

What I have wanted to do in these situations is have our QB take the snap while kneeling behind the center.  As soon as he possesses the ball, the play is dead.  Can't find any rule that would prohibit it.

[Curious]

What I have wanted to do in these situations is have our QB take the snap while kneeling behind the center.  As soon as he possesses the ball, the play is dead.  Can't find any rule that would prohibit it.

We have the shotgun and the pistol; but what do you call that formation...the "pop-gun"?
 

[sir55]

AB I don't think anything in the rules would prohibit taking the snap on the knee as long as the snap requirements are met, but I could see your QB getting injured by being bent backwards when the center gets hit and pushed back into the QB. I don't know if he could move out of the way from his knees like he does taking the snap and stepping back to kneel. I don't know if the WH could stop the play fast enough to protect the QB from the initial line charge or if the D could stop before contact was made.

[VALJ]

       I saw a game a few weeks ago where a team had the game won and decided to have the QB kneel down to run out the clock.  However, they did this from the usual shotgun (or pistol) formation. The ref immediately threw the flag when the QB kneeled down after recieving the snap in this formation. Does the QB have to line up under center to kneel down on the play?

Had it happen last week.  No flag.

[TampaSteve]

Exactly how the Atlanta Falcons ended the game against Tampa Bay on Sunday.

Since the Bucs have been known to still try to attack on these plays, the Falcons had Ryan take the snap in a shotgun to protect him from getting hit.  Perfectly legal in all codes.

What I have wanted to do in these situations is have our QB take the snap while kneeling behind the center.  As soon as he possesses the ball, the play is dead.  Can't find any rule that would prohibit it.

Bucs attacking on these plays is really getting them far, eh?  Bush.

[wvoref]

Which brings us to the much discussed question of how we as officials handle the kneel down situation.  If A is leading by 9 or more or trailing and just wants the game over we will tell the defense "He's taking a knee don't do anything stupid, dirty etc."  If A is leading by 8 or less we don't say anything to the defense but I tell the QB to go down to the knee as fast as he can and I will try to protect him as best I can.  And even still we'll have QBs drop back and stand there until a defensive player is almost on top of him and then drop to his knee.  Of course if the defender hits him the coach wants a PF because he was taking a knee even though the hit wouldn't qualify as a PF if he had just slipped.

[Atlanta Blue]

Which brings us to the much discussed question of how we as officials handle the kneel down situation.  If A is leading by 9 or more or trailing and just wants the game over we will tell the defense "He's taking a knee don't do anything stupid, dirty etc."  If A is leading by 8 or less we don't say anything to the defense but I tell the QB to go down to the knee as fast as he can and I will try to protect him as best I can.  And even still we'll have QBs drop back and stand there until a defensive player is almost on top of him and then drop to his knee.  Of course if the defender hits him the coach wants a PF because he was taking a knee even though the hit wouldn't qualify as a PF if he had just slipped.

Here we go again:
You tell the defense he's taking a knee.  Now he doesn't.  Now what?
Or he fumbles the ball.  You've told the defense he's taking a knee.

Don't tell the defense what the offense is going to do!  EVER!!!

If you have to say something, and I don't think you do, say something like:
Guys, let's play smart.
or
IF he takes a knee, let's not have any late hits.

If you've gotten to this point of the game, they know what they should or shouldn't do.  Squeeze in, be ready to hit the whistle, and keep officiating.

Otherwise, just end the game.  You've already told them you aren't going to let them play anyway.

[wvoref]

For what its worth we are not telling them not to play, just don't do anything stupid.  Yes i know in this case thats a distinction without much difference.  And if the QB takes off running I'm going to have an IW.  Better for me to take the heat for a mistake than to allow them to get away with something like this.  If he fumbles - play on.  Again we only say something when the score is such that B can't tie or win game no matter what happens.

[Atlanta Blue]

Again we only say something when the score is such that B can't tie or win game no matter what happens.

Then why snap the ball at all?

[wvoref]

It would be nice if that were an option.  I guess its kind of like actually having to throw four balls for an intentional walk instead of just sending the batter to first base.

[NorCalMike]

I got to agree with AB on this one.

A couple of weeks ago, A is up by 14 with about a minute left. They decided to kneel. B's D line crashes in on every play. All the play be B was legal. If I tell B that A is going to kneel and the A players believe that B will not attack then ease up there is possibility of A players getting hurt.

[HLinNC]

Annnnnnd as previously stated by me, the most I will ever say is  "Be smart, guys".   That is ambiguous yet covers all ends of the spectrum.

False fouls and intentional IW's - might as well officiate TV wrestling or NASCAR.

[maven]

I, too, am toward AB's end of the spectrum on this question.

My umpire says, "be smart," and I say nothing. The only "fudge" I use is blowing it dead when the QB lowers his knee within an inch of the ground, trying to get a couple extra seconds off the clock. Somehow, it always looks to me as if he did in fact touch the ground!

I like the NCAA rule, where simulating taking a knee makes the ball.

[bama_stripes]

"Offense, keep blocking.  Defense, don't do anything stupid."

[FLAHL]

This would be much simpler if the offense didn't tell us what they were going to do. 

[ECILLJ]

I agree with AB, but I wish that more of his coaching brethren also agreed, it would make it easier to manage this play. It seems the majority of the coaches want us to be the protectors once they have told us they are taking a knee.

Our crew was taught a valuable lesson a few years ago. There was only one play left in the first half, A had the ball at midfield and was down by a touchdown. A's coach tells us they are taking a knee to wind out the clock for the first half. We relayed this information to the defense. Then the coach changes his mind and tells us he is not taking a knee. We had confusion on the field. Thankfully, A did not make it to the line to gain and the clock did run out.

In retrospect, we could have flagged the coach for unsportsmanlike conduct. After that episode our crew has decided to never relay to the defense, "they are taking a knee" unless we have a very lopsided score. We now use phrases like, "play smart if he takes a knee".

[VALJ]

Annnnnnd as previously stated by me, the most I will ever say is  "Be smart, guys".   That is ambiguous yet covers all ends of the spectrum.

+1.  "Guys, don't do anything stupid. Be smart."

[Atlanta Blue]

In retrospect, we could have flagged the coach for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Under what rule?  This is why I say, "Stay out of it."

It's not your job to protect my QB, that's up to my line.  It's also not your job to tell my defense not to play.  Your job is to officiate the game as it comes to you.  Make things easier for yourself, if the offense tells you they are taking a knee, ignore them, and just keep officiating.  If the QB takes a knee, hit the whistle.  If the defense does something stupid, flag them, or even eject, because at that point, it's probably flagrant.

[Ralph Damren]

I had requested that the Officials Mannual Committee address this issue, and they will in the 2014-15 edition.

[Atlanta Blue]

I had requested that the Officials Mannual Committee address this issue, and they will in the 2014-15 edition.

How?

[Ralph Damren]

How?

Don't know yet, but 'spect I'll know come next Ground Hog's Day.Ain't a secret that ya' have to keep, like new rules stuff ;so I let you guys know soon after I know. I'll assume it will be along the lines that many of you suggested, that our job isn't to stop the kids from playing, but to encourage good sportsmanship.

[ECILLJ]

Under what rule?   

Section ART. 5 . . . Neither team shall commit any act which, in the opinion of the
referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.

[Atlanta Blue]

Section ART. 5 . . . Neither team shall commit any act which, in the opinion of the
referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.

There's no travesty.  That's the kind of call that ends careers, or at least any post season hopes.