Author Topic: Let's Fix Things  (Read 34941 times)

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Offline Curious

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Let's Fix Things
« on: October 25, 2011, 03:20:03 PM »
I'm conducting an informal survey about rules we (officials) would like to see changed/deleted/etc. by the NFHS Rules folks.  So I thought I'd ask the learned "Refstripes" membership.  Your suggestions, along with a "why", if possible, would be appreciated.

Consider nothing sacred.

Personally, I'd like to see DPI eliminated on an "uncatchable" pass; and make all defensive personal fouls an automatic first downs.

Thanks in advance.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 05:15:33 PM »
There are 3 basic levels of Football Rules, NFHS, NCAA and NFL which each serve distinctly different age groups and skill sets.  Rules that seem to work well at one level don'y necessarily translate well on the other levels.  NFHS rules apply to football starting around the age of 8.

Offline FBUmp

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 05:26:32 PM »
I'm conducting an informal survey about rules we (officials) would like to see changed/deleted/etc. by the NFHS Rules folks.  So I thought I'd ask the learned "Refstripes" membership.  Your suggestions, along with a "why", if possible, would be appreciated.

Consider nothing sacred.

Personally, I'd like to see DPI eliminated on an "uncatchable" pass; and make all defensive personal fouls an automatic first downs.

Thanks in advance.

Honestly, I don't see the need for either change.  Just because something works at one level, it doesn't mean it's necessary at all levels.

Offline WCFB

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 11:27:40 PM »
I would like to see the NFHS adopt the NCAA encroachment rules on the defense. I dont see why it is automatically a penalty if the defense is in the NZ following the RFP whistle. I do no think many high school officials call it the way the Fed has it written... Maybe we should start calling it by book rule, the fed would probably change it after the coaches start to complain.


Offline Welpe

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 09:30:12 AM »
There are 3 basic levels of Football Rules, NFHS, NCAA and NFL which each serve distinctly different age groups and skill sets.  Rules that seem to work well at one level don'y necessarily translate well on the other levels.  NFHS rules apply to football starting around the age of 8.

NCAA rules seem to work fine for players at all ages in the states of Texas and Massachusetts.

UmpinK

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 10:08:13 AM »
Five yard horse collar. 

I think I would be OK with uncatchable, assuming the hit wasn't hard enough to be classified a personal foul.

I wouldn't mind intentional grounding rules in high school to be the same as the upper levels (can throw it away outside tackle box and beyond LOS).  I think that adds an interesting element to the game.


busman

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 10:29:40 AM »
Don't mess with NFHS encroachment.  It is so easy to administer. The first one in loses.  You don't have to keep up with "Was he head up or in the next position over?", the center doesn't have to make a decison to snap it and hope the official sees the same thing, etc.  Reduces sideline arguments immensely.

I agree with adding uncatchable to high school DPI.

I'd like to see the "four on one side of the ball" added to the free kick rule.  As more and more are using the on-side kick, it would reduce injuries.

Eliminate the toss and choice in OT.  Visitor team get's the ball first, home team second, and we play at the end where the offense can see the scoreboard (no advantage to that, but it just makes it simple).

Adopt NCAA intentional grounding rule  - just treat it like a sack.  A keeps the ball (except on 4th down) at the spot of the pass, loses down, clock is wound on the ready.

Offline bigjohn

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 10:40:23 AM »
I know this will shock some of you but I would like to delete the IG rule all together. 

I would alos like to see the penalty for kick off OOB removed and  do away with automatic TB on kicks crossing the GL.

We saw a kid basically get a Interception for a TD return negated by an IW caused by goal line confusion.


Offline Curious

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 10:48:25 AM »
Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.  Some good thoughts and comments!

Keep 'em coming!

Mike L

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 10:55:26 AM »
Kicks into the end zone remain live.

Formation is legal with no more than 4 backs. If they want to play with 10 & only 6 linemen, let 'em.

OPI is 5 yds plus LOD, just like all the other offense LOD fouls.

Any substantial hit above the shoulders is a PF. The NFL is already there, the NCAA is practically there, why do we allow HS and the little guys to do it?

Offline bigjohn

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 11:09:17 AM »
Quote
Any substantial hit above the shoulders is a PF. The NFL is already there, the NCAA is practically there, why do we allow HS and the little guys to do it?

Amen, Mike

Offline Ump33

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 11:15:52 AM »
Make it illegal for the defense to slap the ball during the snap ... then we would not have to discuss it here and other sites every year.

Offline Curious

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 11:32:34 AM »
Make it illegal for the defense to slap the ball during the snap ... then we would not have to discuss it here and other sites every year.

I LOVE THIS ONE!!!

(so where are you AB?????????????????????????)

How come most of the responses are from "U's"?  Where are the "'Rs" and the rest of you guys?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 12:02:57 PM »
Encroachment is fine as it is.

Wear any colored freakin towel you want.  If it is nicely screen printed with your school logo, that's OK too.
If it says "You suck #42" or "Your momma", eject the towel and give the kid 15 yards.

Wear shooting sleeves, wear Livestrong bands, wear bicep bands around your calves, paint your face like a rodeo clown, hang your play card band from you belt- I don't care.

Eliminate all blocking below the waist and hitting above the shoulders.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 12:13:20 PM »
(1)  Illegal formation if more than 4 backs, regardless of number of linemen.
(2)  If a team A player goes OOB, comes back in & is first to touch the pass, Illegal Touching.
(3)  Basic spot for fouls by Team A behind the LOS previous spot.
(4)  OPI penalty 15 yards, no LOD.
(5)  No DPI if pass is ruled uncatchable.

Offline LAZebra

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 12:36:01 PM »
(1)  Illegal formation if more than 4 backs, regardless of number of linemen.
(2)  If a team A player goes OOB, comes back in & is first to touch the pass, Illegal Touching.
(3)  Basic spot for fouls by Team A behind the LOS previous spot.
(4)  Allow passer to dump the ball outside the "tackle box"
(5) Coaches arguing about a sideline warning results in an automatic UNC on the head coach.

(Note: this is bamastripes post with a couple of modifications, us Heart of Dixie boys gotta stick together!)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 12:38:29 PM by LAZebra »
None of these fans paid to see us

RickKY

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2011, 01:07:05 PM »
I would like to see fumbles going OOB behind your opponents GL being returned to team last in possession at the spot where possession was lost.

A1 is running at the B-3 when he fumbles, and the ball crosses the GL then goes OOB.  This is currently a TB and B gets the ball at the B-20.  My rule change would give the ball back to A the B-3.  If the ball had gone OOB between the GLs, A would keep possession.  I don't know why B should get the ball in the case.

busman

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2011, 01:20:05 PM »
"I would alos like to see the penalty for kick off OOB removed ..."

What would you propose?

Offline bigjohn

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2011, 01:30:09 PM »
R is responsible for fielding the KO, if it goes out on the fly the K team is rewarded for good placement. Why should it be any different than a punt?


Offline Kirby

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2011, 01:37:07 PM »
Eliminate the 5-yard penalty for an incidental facemask. I believe we use it too much as a "cop-out". Similar to NCAA, an incidental grab & release would be no foul. A grab and twist would be a 15 yard penalty.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2011, 01:42:38 PM »
Maybe I'll catch heat, but with coaches thiking they coach @Oregon (sans the D1 talent) & players emulating what they see on TV, perhaps a few timing items addressed.

We're sometimes playing 12-minute quarter games, with no commercial breaks, played in 3hrs.
NCAA/NFL have 15min quarters, AND commercials and they're playing in 3:15.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 03:40:25 PM by TampaSteve »

busman

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 02:23:14 PM »
"R is responsible for fielding the KO, if it goes out on the fly the K team is rewarded for good placement. Why should it be any different than a punt? "

Too easy to do on a free kick.  You get to place the ball wherever you want between the hashes, you have no rush, you can easily kick it in the air OOB.  Doesn't take much skill to "place it".  I would support catching it in the air by K.  That takes skill for the kicker and the receiver.


Offline Curious

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2011, 03:07:00 PM »
Some great stuff/ideas - even from those who don't want to change anything!!!!

One thing I haven't seen yet: How about a spot foul (with auto 1st down) for DPI on passes less than 15 yds?

Thoughts

More ...more...more

If you don't like some of the suggestions, "speak" up.  Would like both sides of the argument...

Offline Welpe

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2011, 03:34:18 PM »
Make the penalty for KCI 15 yards from the previous spot or 15 yards and the ball to R at the spot of the foul.

Eliminate LOD on OPI.

Change the rules regarding force so that they are the same as NCAA.  In NCAA a new impetus cannot be imparted on a loose ball unless it is at rest or there is illegal batting or kicking the ball.

Allow Team B to decline the penalty for an illegal forward pass thrown from Team A's endzone.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Let's Fix Things
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2011, 03:50:30 PM »
Change the rules regarding force so that they are the same as NCAA.  In NCAA a new impetus cannot be imparted on a loose ball unless it is at rest or there is illegal batting or kicking the ball.

Slight clarification: any bat, legal or illegal, of a grounded loose ball imparts new impetus in NCAA.