2011 CFO Test

[Grant - AR]

The 2011 CFO test is available and has been posted in the Tests, Quizzes, and Training Videos section.

http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=8037.0

[El Macman]

Question #7
I get "None of the Above."
Blocking OB is a Personal Foul, 15 yard penalty, with Basic Spot enforcement. In this case, the Basic Spot is the end of the related run, which we must assume is the A-48 (one yard beyond the line-to-gain, which is the A-47). The spot of the foul is the A-42, which is behind the Basic Spot, but beyond the NZ, so the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul. The penalty will be accepted because the result of the play is a first down for A. 42-15 = 27. So, the succeeding spot will be the A-27. If the LTG = A-47, subtracting 27 from 47, I get 20 yards to gain. So, I get A, 3/20, A-27, RFP (25 on the play clock).

Hmmm. Not one of the given answer choices.

  

[El Macman]

Question #13
Same old ambiguous c---.
True, if you don't count the exception against A players in position to receive a backward pass.

False, if you mean under any condition or circumstance.

Also, what happened to blocking an eligible A player below the waist beyond the NZ until a legal forward pass is no longer possible by rule?

I'll keep my fingers crossed and go with True.

[TXMike]

7. A, 3/7 @ A-40. On a sweep play to the HL sideline, the pulling left tackle initiates a block against his opponent out of bounds at the A-45. Both players crossed the sideline at the A-42. The runner is tackled at the A-48.
A. A, 3/22 @ A-25; previous spot foul
B. A, 3/17 @ A-30; spot foul of the illegal block
C. A, 3/14 @ A-27; spot where blocker crossed the sideline

[El Macman]

Question #21
Since RR ruled the enforcement of interference with an official by sideline personnel during a live ball should be penalized as a dead-ball (2010 Bulletin 4, Play 3), then A is the answer. Someone without the bulletins would never know to consider this a dead-ball foul. I would have thought he'd put that play in as an AR, since it clearly "interprets" the rule (versus simply clarifying a rule).

[fencewire]

Question #7
I get "None of the Above."
Blocking OB is a Personal Foul, 15 yard penalty, with Basic Spot enforcement. In this case, the Basic Spot is the end of the related run, which we must assume is the A-48 (one yard beyond the line-to-gain, which is the A-47). The spot of the foul is the A-42, which is behind the Basic Spot, but beyond the NZ, so the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul. The penalty will be accepted because the result of the play is a first down for A. 42-15 = 27. So, the succeeding spot will be the A-27. If the LTG = A-47, subtracting 27 from 47, I get 20 yards to gain. So, I get A, 3/20, A-27, RFP (25 on the play clock).

Hmmm. Not one of the given answer choices.

I got the same.

D (none of the above)

[Diablo]

Question #21
Since RR ruled the enforcement of interference with an official by sideline personnel during a live ball should be penalized as a dead-ball (2010 Bulletin 4, Play 3), then A is the answer. Someone without the bulletins would never know to consider this a dead-ball foul. I would have thought he'd put that play in as an AR, since it clearly "interprets" the rule (versus simply clarifying a rule).

I see #21 as a 9-1-5-a (illegal interference) infraction - 15 yard penalty, live-ball foul this year.  That leads me to answer B.

[El Macman]

I see #21 as a 9-1-5-a (illegal interference) infraction - 15 yard penalty, live-ball foul this year.  That leads me to answer B.

9-1-5-a doesn't exist anymore. Neither does the heading "Illegal Interference."

For 2011, the pertinent rule is 9-2-3-a, under the heading, "Unfair Acts." The penalty statement gives the R discretion as to what penalty to enforce, and whether to treat it as a live or dead-ball foul. However, assuming (I know - that's dangerous) the 2010 bulletin play (Bulletin 4, Play 3) is still valid, it sets the precedent and directs us to make this a dead-ball foul, enforced on the Try.

Unless he has changed his mind.

I've got to go with answer A.

[TxSkyBolt]

7. A, 3/7 @ A-40. On a sweep play to the HL sideline, the pulling left tackle initiates a block against his opponent out of bounds at the A-45. Both players crossed the sideline at the A-42. The runner is tackled at the A-48.
A. A, 3/22 @ A-25; previous spot foul
B. A, 3/17 @ A-30; spot foul of the illegal block
C. A, 3/14 @ A-27; spot where blocker crossed the sideline

C

[fencewire]

Shouldn't it be 3/20?

it was 3/7 @ A-40 so the LTG was the A-47, after the mark off of the penalty the ball would be at the A-27 (A42 - 15yards).  3/14 would have the ball at the A-33.   

[Wing4Life]

Guys, mind sharing what you got for #24? Initially, I had B but now I'm going with C. Would like to know what you got & why.

Also, I had some discussion under another heading about #66. I went with C but several of my fellow officials went with A (& they are adamant about it).

[Andrew McCarthy]

Also, I had some discussion under another heading about #66. I went with C but several of my fellow officials went with A (& they are adamant about it).

On a play like this, are we even worried about impetus?  Did the ball go out of bounds behind a goal line or become dead in the possession of a player who was on, above or behind a goal line?

[Diablo]

Also, I had some discussion under another heading about #66. I went with C but several of my fellow officials went with A (& they are adamant about it).

I think this is a rare application of 2-25-11-b.  When a scrimmage kick ends in Team B's EZ, the PSK spot in the B-20.  That being the basic spot, I'd go with answer C.

[El Macman]

Guys, mind sharing what you got for #24? Initially, I had B but now I'm going with C. Would like to know what you got & why.

Also, I had some discussion under another heading about #66. I went with C but several of my fellow officials went with A (& they are adamant about it).

For 24, I believe C is correct. The ball carrier is not airborne, so the progress spot is the location of the ball when it is declared dead (between the goal lines, even if the ball is outside the sideline).

[El Macman]

I think this is a rare application of 2-25-11-b.  When a scrimmage kick ends in Team B's EZ, the PSK spot in the B-20.  That being the basic spot, I'd go with answer C.

I'm wit u, Brudda!

[zebra99]

For 24, I believe C is correct. The ball carrier is not airborne, so the progress spot is the location of the ball when it is declared dead (between the goal lines, even if the ball is outside the sideline).

Boy, this one is really something, one would think very basic, but .....?  In order to go with c what we're really offering is a "LTG line extended" concept. That's something I've never heard discussed.

When I was a LJ many moons ago, we always spotted the ball where it crossed the sideline on this play.

Suppose the runner is near the right sideline at the 50 yard line 1 yard short of the LTG at the 49.  He is facing directly at the sideline, with his shoulders parallel to the sideline.  Realizing he is falling straight on his face and cannot reach the LTG, so as he falls he reaches the ball out with his left hand (this dude has a huge wingspan) and then first contacts the ground with his right hand.  When that happens the ball is 2 yards OB (he's taller than 6 feet) but it reached the "line to gain extended".  Remember since he was facing the sideline, the ball crossed the sideline at the 50.  

So when the ball becomes dead (when his right hand touched OB), the ball is 6 feet OB, and 3 feet downfield still OB.

Are we now saying this is a 1st down, because, unless I've totally lost it, it was not last year, nor for as many as I can remember.

Another play, runner is running at an angle toward the sideline and realizes his next step will be on the sideline. So he extends the ball out over the sideline but enough forward to have it's tip beyond the LTG extended OB (again a concept I've never heard of), then he steps on the sideline.  What then?

What am I missing?

[Diablo]

For 24, I believe C is correct. The ball carrier is not airborne, so the progress spot is the location of the ball when it is declared dead (between the goal lines, even if the ball is outside the sideline).

Agree. 
It's the same rules philosophy as when a ball carrier, in the middle of the field of play, is tackled and extends the ball forward just as his knee hits dirt.  A grounded ball carrier gets the benefit of forward progress - location of the ball at the instant it becomes dead.

[El Macman]

Boy, this one is really something, one would think very basic, but .....?  In order to go with c what we're really offering is a "LTG line extended" concept. That's something I've never heard discussed.

When I was a LJ many moons ago, we always spotted the ball where it crossed the sideline on this play.

Suppose the runner is near the right sideline at the 50 yard line 1 yard short of the LTG at the 49.  He is facing directly at the sideline, with his shoulders parallel to the sideline.  Realizing he is falling straight on his face and cannot reach the LTG, so as he falls he reaches the ball out with his left hand (this dude has a huge wingspan) and then first contacts the ground with his right hand.  When that happens the ball is 2 yards OB (he's taller than 6 feet) but it reached the "line to gain extended".  Remember since he was facing the sideline, the ball crossed the sideline at the 50.  

So when the ball becomes dead (when his right hand touched OB), the ball is 6 feet OB, and 3 feet downfield still OB.

Are we now saying this is a 1st down, because, unless I've totally lost it, it was not last year, nor for as many as I can remember.

Another play, runner is running at an angle toward the sideline and realizes his next step will be on the sideline. So he extends the ball out over the sideline but enough forward to have it's tip beyond the LTG extended OB (again a concept I've never heard of), then he steps on the sideline.  What then?

What am I missing?

Z99, "after further review, I am now quite confused." As long as I can remember, I understood the opposite of you, i.e., if the BC wasn't airborne, then the location of the ball (N-S, so to speak), even if over ground that is outside the sideline, was the forward progress. And 4-2-4-d, with ARs 8-2-1-I and II seem to still support that (all of which preceded RR). However, ARs 8-2-1-V, VI, VII, VIII and IX, created by RR in the past few years, appear to be in conflict with the previous ARs. And, to compound the confusion, all of these ARs directly address the goal line, not situations not involving the line-to-gain, or simple progress (not involving the goal line).

The previous rules were pretty simple. The new ARs make it incredibly complicated.

Your guess is as good as mine.

[zebra99]

Agree.  
It's the same rules philosophy as when a ball carrier, in the middle of the field of play, is tackled and extends the ball forward just as his knee hits dirt.  A grounded ball carrier gets the benefit of forward progress - location of the ball at the instant it becomes dead.

I agree with this in the field of play, but, as said, I thought it was different on the sideline.  I thought the "where it crossed the sideline" was not limited to airborne runners but included regular runners too.

While difficult to be exactly precise as to where the ball, in possession of the runner, crossed the sideline when trailing the runner, it's easier than trying to determine where its tip was when the runner first touched the sideline or OB.  And, of course, the LTG is very important.

Have we really been applying the GL extended logic to OB LTG situations?

I've been in them middle for a very long time (was a BJ for years after being a LJ and before switching to R) so could be all wet on this one.  But, again, I haven't heard the "extended" chatter by the wing guys.

[Zeke5]

I heard this play from guys coming back from a clinic where Rogers spoke ... I thought they were kidding. Why complicate this? We just got done taking out the all the silly runner becoming airborn by way of hit near pylon stuff.

So, I guess we can let the defense go out and crack him a yard OOB to keep him from getting the first, right ?

[Andrew McCarthy]

#5 is a poorly worded question.  If the fouling team takes a TO then there wouldn't be a 10-second subtraction.

[El Macman]

I agree with this in the field of play, but, as said, I thought it was different on the sideline.  I thought the "where it crossed the sideline" was not limited to airborne runners but regular runners.

While difficult to be exactly precise as to where the ball, in possession of the runner, crossed the sideline when trailing the runner, it's easier than trying to determine where its tip was when the runner first touched the sideline or OB.  And, of course, the LTG is very important.

Have we really been applying the GL extended logic to OB LTG situations?

I've been in them middle for a very long time (was a BJ for years after being a LJ and before switching to R) so could be all wet on this one.  But, again, I haven't heard the "extended" chatter by the wing guys.

These are more of rhetorical questions than ones I want you to answer, but how about these realistic scenarios:
The ball carrier is running so close to the sideline, with the ball in his outside arm, that the ball is actually over ground that is outside the sideline. He runs for 40 yards, then steps on the sideline. Are you going to go back to the spot where the ball first crossed over the sideline?
We've seen guys tip-toe along the sideline, holding the ball out over "foul ground" for several yards before finally losing their balance and stepping or falling OB. Are we going to take the ball back to the spot where it first crossed over the sideline?

We need a national rules conference with RR. That's no joke. We really need one.

[zebra99]

These is more of rhetorical questions than ones I want you to answer, but how about these realistic scenarios:
The ball carrier is running so close to the sideline, with the ball in his outside arm, that the ball is actually over ground that is outside the sideline. He runs for 40 yards, then steps on the sideline. Are you going to go back to the spot where the ball first crossed over the sideline?
We've seen guys tip-toe along the sideline, holding the ball out over "foul ground" for several yards before finally losing their balance and stepping or falling OB. Are we going to take the ball back to the spot where it first crossed over the sideline?

We need a national rules conference with RR. That's no joke. We really need one.

I thought of that play too - so it's back to the old "For years I thought it was this way, then a new book comes out and I'm totally messed up."  If I'm right and the wing guys have been doing it "my" way (and those I've talked to around here agree), then is this a rule change?

Here's hoping I'm wrong in the first place    ...........   but I still can't get over not hearing ANY chatter, talk, or discussion over the years about the concept of an extended LTG or dead ball spot extended when the runner goes OB, non-airborne.

[mccormicw]

During a clinic in San Antonio, forward progress for plays out of bounds was explained by Dick Honig as follows:

Excluding situations at the pylon, forward progress is where the ball crosses the sideline for airborne ball carriers/runners (whatever we are calling them this year).  For running ball carriers/runners, forward progress is the spot where the ball carrier/runner touches out of bounds (even if his/her stride carries them a yard down field (OB).  For example, A45 crosses the sideline at the A45 but first touches the ground OB at the A46 extended.  Forward progress is the A46.  I can't imagine this rule will remain this way for the reason previously stated (can the defense hit a player OB to prevent him from attaining a first down).

This is way I remember it.  Just sayin..

[El Macman]

#5 is a poorly worded question.  If the fouling team takes a TO then there wouldn't be a 10-second subtraction.

Maybe not perfect, but a lot better than some.

Try this: Following acceptance of a distance penalty and 10-second game clock subtraction, the game clock will start on the referee's ready-for-play signal, unless the fouling team chooses to use one of their remaining times-out.

The point of the question is the fact that the game clock starts on the RFP, by rule, when the distance penalty and time subtraction are accepted.