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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TexDoc on November 13, 2017, 07:42:30 AM
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It's that time of year again. I'm beginning work on putting together playoff brackets showing what chapter is working each game. With the demise of ZebraWare, this project just became much more difficult. I'm going to ask for lots of help from you guys and hopefully find the right contacts within each chapter than give me info. I will hopefully have this out Wednesday.
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There used to be a list of chapter secretaries, etc, on the TASO website. Anyone know where I can find this now days?
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On the 'public' page of the web site there is a menu item called Chapter Directory, with a drop down menu. Select Football, and check it, and see if it is what you are needing.
Robert
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I've gone through each chapter's web site and pulled emails for chapter secretaries. I've send one email asking for help. Without help, this project will probably come to an end. If anyone has contact info for the Corpus (South Texas Chapter) secretary, I would appreciate you sending it to me.
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John Patino, coach_jp@msn.com
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What help do you need that a non-sec can give?
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It depends on your chapter, what information I get back from secretaries, and if you can supply info for your chapter. More to come.
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Week 1 partial:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
Here are the games I don't know about. If you have info on these, please let me know what chapter is working them:
DeSoto / Copperas Cove
Levelland / Clint
Canyon Lake / Gatesville
Caldwell / Lorena
Mexia / Gonzales
Raymondville / Sinton
Crystal City / Llano
Comanche / Boyd
East Chambers / Buna
Seymour / Collinsville
Mart / Goldthwaite
Joaquin / Centerville
Flatonia / Bruni
Jonesboro / Lometa
Union Hill / Ledonia Fannindale
Jayton / Highland
Richland Springs / Morgan
Milford / Buckholts
I've also not been able to contact El Paso, Rio Grande Valley or Central Texas. The first two are easy to guess, but I have no idea about what Centex has. Would appreciate a contact that can help. Thanks.
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Union Hill / Ledonia Fannindale - East Texas
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Down to needing these:
Levelland / Clint
East Chambers / Buna (I assume Beaumont)
Hebbronville / Dilley (RGV maybe)
Seymour / Collinsville
Jayton / Highlands
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Seymour / Collinsville Abilene
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Ready to start loading games. Let me know what your chapter has.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
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Have not heard from Waco, RGV, El Paso, Corpus, Central Texas, San Angelo, Beaumont, SFA chapters
Need info on these games
SA Southwest / Los Fresnos
Lubbock Estacado / WF Hirschi
Midlothian Heritage / Crandall
Kaufman / Springtown
Bushland / Godley
Texarkana Pleasant Grove / Aubrey
West Orange - Stark / Mexia
Wall / Jim Ned
Grandview / Hughes Springs
Van Vleck / Mathis
Holiday / Edgewood
DeLeon / Celeste
Bogota Rivercrest / Lovelady
San Augustine / Wolfe City
Muenster / Iraan
Burton / Louise
Crowell / Strawn
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Mexia
Wall
Crandall
All Central Texas
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Down to needing just these:
SA Southwest / Los Fresnos
Van Vleck / Mathis
Burton / Louise
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Down to needing just these:
SA Southwest / Los Fresnos
Van Vleck / Mathis
Burton / Louise
burton/ louise and vanvleck/ mathis are both beaumont chapter
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Updated scores from last week and locations for this week. There are a few chapters preliminarily loaded for this week, but don't pay much attention to those until I get confirmation later this week.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
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Tivy plays in the dome at 4 not 7
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Hamlin-Clarendon got moved to Frenship (instead of Cooper - Cooper's scoreboard isn't working).
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Week 3 update.
Latest has been uploaded: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
I still do not have information from Dallas, Tyler, East Texas and Central Texas.
Here's where I need information:
Garland Sachse / Pflugerville Hendrickson
Cedar Park / Manvel
Angleton / CC Flour Bluff
Waxahachie / Frisco Lone Star
Texarkana Liberty-Eylau / Kaufman
Henderson / Kilgore
Kemp / Commerce
Holiday / Gunter
New Diana / Jacksboro
Garrison / Waskom
Bosqueville / Crawford
Rivercrest / Centerville
Gruver / Wellington
Tenaha / Iola
Happy / McLean
Follett / Valley
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Central Texas No Games on Reftown
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Week 3, got a lot of blanks filled in. Just need Dallas.
Need these:
Cedar Park / Manvel
Angleton / CC Flour Bluff
I guess I can assume these went to Dallas.
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Dallas received both of those games
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Will there also be tracking for the number of games that Ruth fella gets. I’m sure he’s in the 8-9 range so far...I heard he may already be confirmed for at least one state final already.
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I'm just trying to figure out why Dallas got the shaft week 3 :sTiR:
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I'm just trying to figure out why Dallas got the shaft week 3 :sTiR:
Fortunately for them, they enjoy getting the shaft.
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Will there also be tracking for the number of games that Ruth fella gets. I’m sure he’s in the 8-9 range so far...I heard he may already be confirmed for at least one state final already.
You lost me. Who?
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I'm just trying to figure out why Dallas got the shaft week 3 :sTiR:
I’ve been officiating in this great state for 30 years now. I’ve been putting together the brackets I do for 15 of those 30 years. I have a decent feel for what goes on and I realize what games a chapter gets, outside of Houston, is cyclical and very dependent upon what schools are still in the playoffs. Seeing any given chapter have a bad week, by volume of games, means very little when thinking of the quality of their officiating. It means absolutely squat. The chapters at the edges of the state get very little. That’s a simple fact. El Paso, RGV, South TX, Beaumont, East TX, Commerce, Amarillo (not as much), get very little after the second or third round. That’s about geography more than quality, IMHO. I’ve seen some of their better crews and they do a great job. Houston is a different story. They are huge. They cover all of region III and parts of region II an IV. They have a good reputation and many, many crews to choose from. Any of the best crews from any chapter in the state are as good as the best crew from Houston, but there are just many more of those good crews in Houston. Tommy is a great representative for Houston, and actually all of TASO. Not a better guy in this state of Texas for officials, period. Things won’t change in the way of evening things out as far as playoff games any time soon. Simple fact, but if you want to work later round playoff games, you have to get into one of those chapters that tends to work those games and then prove yourself. Thoughts from an old fart...
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Hear! Hear! To TexDoc. tiphat:
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You also have to keep that the coaches have a huge network. 90% of our playoff games come with a specific crew being requested. I always ask the coaches how they heard about the said crew and the response has always been, "I got a buddy who coaches at 'somewhere' high school and he recommended them." When you have the same 2 or 3 crews being recommended by multiple coaches then they must be doing something right. For larger chapters then you have a bigger chance of there being 20 or so crews that are recommended so that does drown out the chances of the smaller chapters. I have found that coaches aren't just going to select a chapter without having done some kind of research on that chapter. The bad deal is that it only takes one coach to say a negative thing about one crew and that can affect the entire chapter. Another side is that some of the games we got the coaches inquired about the number of games we had that week. Apparently they would call a chapter who had a large number of games and then decided to go with a chapter with very few games. To them, they didn't think they would get a top tier crew from the chapter that had 20 games but with the smaller chapter who had just a couple of games they could get a top tier crew. So the bottom line is, work every game like a playoff game starting with the first game in September and become the crew that your own local coaches will refer to his "buddies". Before you know it that coach will be referring you to his "buddies".
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Will there also be tracking for the number of games that Ruth fella gets. I’m sure he’s in the 8-9 range so far...I heard he may already be confirmed for at least one state final already.
I thought they changed it a year or two ago, he can only get one (only... :) ).
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I thought they changed it a year or two ago, he can only get one (only... :) ).
Yes, it was changed this year, because he got 2 last year.
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You also have to keep that the coaches have a huge network. 90% of our playoff games come with a specific crew being requested. I always ask the coaches how they heard about the said crew and the response has always been, "I got a buddy who coaches at 'somewhere' high school and he recommended them." When you have the same 2 or 3 crews being recommended by multiple coaches then they must be doing something right. For larger chapters then you have a bigger chance of there being 20 or so crews that are recommended so that does drown out the chances of the smaller chapters. I have found that coaches aren't just going to select a chapter without having done some kind of research on that chapter. The bad deal is that it only takes one coach to say a negative thing about one crew and that can affect the entire chapter. Another side is that some of the games we got the coaches inquired about the number of games we had that week. Apparently they would call a chapter who had a large number of games and then decided to go with a chapter with very few games. To them, they didn't think they would get a top tier crew from the chapter that had 20 games but with the smaller chapter who had just a couple of games they could get a top tier crew. So the bottom line is, work every game like a playoff game starting with the first game in September and become the crew that your own local coaches will refer to his "buddies". Before you know it that coach will be referring you to his "buddies".
Get coaches out of the equation.
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Get coaches out of the equation.
I agree, but how? That's really the question. As long as coaches have as strong an influence with the UIL, I don't see any possibility of it changing.
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I agree, but how? That's really the question. As long as coaches have as strong an influence with the UIL, I don't see any possibility of it changing.
Because taking the "politics" out of the coaches hands, and putting into the hands of Chapter assignors is always going to be the answer! Are we taking away the coaches right to agree on officials away only for the playoffs, or also during the regular season? How do you justify separating those two? HS is not like college. In smaller chapters where there are not as many choices, you are saying a coach must the "stuck" with whoever the assignor wants to send -- regardless of their history or the assignors history with a coach? And, if coaches in smaller chapter areas get a "choice" -- why not the coaches in Houston, Dallas, SA, Austin etc.
This is to say there is no perfect system to do this. Its always a matter of whose ox is getting gored. Every systems has proponents and opponents.
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I agree, but how? That's really the question. As long as coaches have as strong an influence with the UIL, I don't see any possibility of it changing.
Since this is off topic, I'm gonna start a new topic for this discussion.
Robert
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I would just like to say that in reading the spread sheet for 13 years on here and on GMCGRIFF.com way back in the day. The Houston Chapter is the only chapter in the state to have never worked a specific game classification. That classification is UIL 6man. It is the only example of a chapter never working a specific classification.
I’ve been officiating in this great state for 30 years now. I’ve been putting together the brackets I do for 15 of those 30 years. I have a decent feel for what goes on and I realize what games a chapter gets, outside of Houston, is cyclical and very dependent upon what schools are still in the playoffs. Seeing any given chapter have a bad week, by volume of games, means very little when thinking of the quality of their officiating. It means absolutely squat. The chapters at the edges of the state get very little. That’s a simple fact. El Paso, RGV, South TX, Beaumont, East TX, Commerce, Amarillo (not as much), get very little after the second or third round. That’s about geography more than quality, IMHO. I’ve seen some of their better crews and they do a great job. Houston is a different story. They are huge. They cover all of region III and parts of region II an IV. They have a good reputation and many, many crews to choose from. Any of the best crews from any chapter in the state are as good as the best crew from Houston, but there are just many more of those good crews in Houston. Tommy is a great representative for Houston, and actually all of TASO. Not a better guy in this state of Texas for officials, period. Things won’t change in the way of evening things out as far as playoff games any time soon. Simple fact, but if you want to work later round playoff games, you have to get into one of those chapters that tends to work those games and then prove yourself. Thoughts from an old TOOT...
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Is it my imagination or does Houston Ref work OT on Being a jackass?
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Yeah, that's an idiotic comment he made.
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FELLAS It was a joke and a hilarious one at that. R E L A X
If redriverref made a comment about Houston Ref got the shaft in week 3 and bct said HoustonRef enjoys getting the shaft I woulda laughed and gave y’all positive rep.
Y’all too sensitive
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Updated. Still lots of holes for this week. Please send info.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
Here's what I still need for this week. Houston probably has a lot of these but I've not heard from them yet.
Trinity / Allen
Katy / North Shore
Lake Travis / O'Connor
Longview / Lufkin
Cy-Fair / Langham Creek
Westlake / Steele
Ryan / Lub Coronado
Highland Park / Lake Ridge
Manvel / Temple
Angleton / Roster
FB Marshall / College Station
Aus McCallum / Calallen
Salado / WOS
Grandview / Kemp
Teague / Rockdale
Gunter / New Diana
Newton / Waskom
Centerville / San Augustine
Timpson / Tenaha
Strawn / Milford
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Calallen v AustinMcCallum is SAT
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Kemp v Grandview is Dallas
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Trinity / Allen - Houston
Katy / North Shore - Houston
Lake Travis / O'Connor - Houston
Longview / Lufkin - Houston
Cy-Fair / Langham Creek - Houston
Westlake / Steele - Houston
Ryan / Lub Coronado
Highland Park / Lake Ridge - Houston
Manvel / Temple - Houston
Angleton / Foster - Houston
FB Marshall / College Station - Houston
Aus McCallum / Calallen
Salado / WOS
Grandview / Kemp
Teague / Rockdale - Houston
Gunter / New Diana
Newton / Waskom - Houston
Centerville / San Augustine
Timpson / Tenaha
Strawn / Milford
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Trinity / Allen - Houston
Katy / North Shore - Houston
Lake Travis / O'Connor - Houston
Longview / Lufkin - Houston
Cy-Fair / Langham Creek - Houston
Westlake / Steele - Houston
Ryan / Lub Coronado
Highland Park / Lake Ridge - Houston
Manvel / Temple - Houston
Angleton / Foster - Houston
FB Marshall / College Station - Houston
Aus McCallum / Calallen
Salado / WOS
Grandview / Kemp
Teague / Rockdale - Houston
Gunter / New Diana
Newton / Waskom - Houston
Centerville / San Augustine
Timpson / Tenaha
Strawn / Milford
aWaRd
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FELLAS It was a joke and a hilarious one at that. R E L A X
If redriverref made a comment about Houston Ref got the shaft in week 3 and bct said HoustonRef enjoys getting the shaft I woulda laughed and gave y’all positive rep.
Y’all too sensitive
Well, if it was intended as a joke I don't think anyone else took it that way. I don't think this is a "Y'all too sensitive" issue. To make obviously disparaging comments about other chapters is not funny no matter which chapter it is in my humble opinion. This is the last I will comment on this.
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Trinity / Allen - Houston
Katy / North Shore - Houston
Lake Travis / O'Connor - Houston
Longview / Lufkin - Houston
Cy-Fair / Langham Creek - Houston
Westlake / Steele - Houston
Ryan / Lub Coronado
Highland Park / Lake Ridge - Houston
Manvel / Temple - Houston
Angleton / Foster - Houston
FB Marshall / College Station - Houston
Aus McCallum / Calallen
Salado / WOS
Grandview / Kemp
Teague / Rockdale - Houston
Gunter / New Diana
Newton / Waskom - Houston
Centerville / San Augustine
Timpson / Tenaha
Strawn / Milford
Houston cleaning up!! I do not think that means the chapter is any better though at officiating football...maybe just better at talking to coaches........
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Well, if it was intended as a joke I don't think anyone else took it that way. I don't think this is a "Y'all too sensitive" issue. To make obviously disparaging comments about other chapters is not funny no matter which chapter it is in my humble opinion. This is the last I will comment on this.
I thought it was funny...and I'm the one asking about the shaft! hahahahahah...everyone have a good weekend of games.
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Houston cleaning up!! I do not think that means the chapter is any better though at officiating football...maybe just better at talking to coaches........
First Year Guy, this is pretty much just geography. Happens every year. There are just so many teams in the general Houston area, as teams in outer parts of the state advance, they almost always move toward metropolitan areas for next round games. Houston has good officials, just as El Paso, Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Wichita Falls, Lubbock, et al. Simple geography and economics govern. Move any of those Houston crews to El Paso, and they are probably sitting home this week. Nothing to do with ability.
Robert
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Only 3 of the games came to the Houston Chapter due to Houston team vs Houston team, the rest could have gone to at least one or two other big chapters, I do not think it is a geography issue
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Only 3 of the games came to the Houston Chapter due to Houston team vs Houston team, the rest could have gone to at least one or two other big chapters, I do not think it is a geography issue
You missed the point. As teams in mid and west Texas beat each other, the remaining playoff teams are in the larger mertropolitan areas. So, a team from El Paso, Amarillo, Lubbock, etc., would be playing a team from in or around an area like Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, etc., which is far more likely to be played at a site near the metropolitan area than the smaller locality. Bringing in a crew from Dallas to work a game in Waco between teams from Wichita Falls and Bryan is far more economical than bringing in a crew from the Permian Basin. At this point in playoffs, that scenario tends to dominate the landscape. The relative handful of teams remaining from outside the major metro areas - Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, San Antonio - are more likely going to be either playing teams from those areas, or playing at sites in those areas, making it more attractive to bring in crews from the closer chapter. The migration of playoff games always moves from rural areas to metropolitan areas, giving the metropolitan area chapters a distinct advantage. No one should criticize those chapters for that fact. It is what it is. But it isn’t because there are not fully competent and qualified officials in the outlying areas. There danged sure are. Abilene, San Angelo, Tyler, etc., etc., can put crews as equally competent as any of those in Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin, or San Antonio. Just not as many, and not as cheaply in travel expenses as the chapters in those areas, generally, where the games are being played.
It has always been that way, and it will likely always be that way. But it has nothing to do with the relative quality and ability of the big chapters versus the smaller chapters.
It is geography.
Robert
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I think it is a combination of geography and coaches comfort with a chapter overall. Let's take the Arlington Martin vs Allen game this past weekend which was played at Dragon Stadium in Southlake. Martin uses FW chapter and Allen uses Dallas chapter. However, a Houston crew did the game, which is a neutral chapter for both crews.
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Martin uses FW chapter and Allen uses Dallas chapter. However, a Houston crew did the game, which is a neutral chapter for both crews.
San Antonio, Austin and Tyler/East Texas are all neutral and closer yet they still came to Houston aWaRd
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Bringing in a crew from Dallas to work a game in Waco between teams from Wichita Falls and Bryan is far more economical than bringing in a crew from the Permian Basin. It is geography.
Robert
There’s less than a 1% chance that when the coaches are discussing which chapter/officials to use at this stage in the playoffs travel expense is discussed and becomes a deciding factor. Maybe the first round or two when it’s the teams that are just happy to be there are playing.
“Hey coach let’s use X chapter because their travel will cost us less.”
No way in ...
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You are likely correct.
At this point in the season, they fall back to who they (or friend) has used or recommended.
There will be some variations ( Amarillo got several this week which is unusual) but they will normally use they chapter they have used in the past for neutral playoffs
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Let's forget politics and ego for moment and just wish everyone still working a great and fun experience wherever they are working. Knock 'em dead, and do the game justice.
Robert
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Well said ElvisLives! Good luck this week everyone and safe travels.
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There’s less than a 1% chance that when the coaches are discussing which chapter/officials to use at this stage in the playoffs travel expense is discussed and becomes a deciding factor. Maybe the first round or two when it’s the teams that are just happy to be there are playing.
“Hey coach let’s use X chapter because their travel will cost us less.”
No way in ...
At least for the playoff games that I had this year, the school where the game was at paid us, mileage and all.
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At least for the playoff games that I had this year, the school where the game was at paid us, mileage and all.
This is always (or almost always the case). The neutral teams rent the stadium from the neutral school district, so the local hosting facility is responsible for accounting for the revenue and netting out the expenses -- such as officials, chain crew, clock, security, EMS, etc etc etc
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Can't not help myself to not ask but are all the crews south of I-20 prepared for the cold and snow that has hit? Up here in the panhandle it's just another normal December night which means it's a great night for football.
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Anyone know which chapter had Wimberley -Cuero this week?
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Anyone know which chapter had Wimberley -Cuero this week?
Waco
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Week 5. Here's what I need info on:
Aledo / Mansfield Legacy
Brock / Kemp
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
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Good luck to all crews.
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Week 5. Here's what I need info on:
Aledo / Mansfield Legacy
Brock / Kemp
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2fhukp8tvo1t63/2017TRNY%20Week%201.pdf?dl=0)
Dallas has Kemp. I suspect FTW will get Aledo since both schools use FTW during the regular season.
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Dallas has Kemp. I suspect FTW will get Aledo since both schools use FTW during the regular season.
I've been informed SA has Aledo.
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Not that it matters, but Katy/LT is in Alamo Stadium.
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Not that it matters, but Katy/LT is in Alamo Stadium.
I clear all that at the end of any given week, so nope, doesn't matter. Locations are on there just as convenience and may or may not be right.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171218/39e18dcd8a761d0363854bf586e28c96.jpg)
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Congrats to all the chapters and crews that were selected. Represent us well.
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Houston = aWaRd
That Ruth fella prolly Pretty upset he only got one game
And for real what is Pecan Valley
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Houston = aWaRd
That Ruth fella prolly Pretty upset he only got one game
And for real what is Pecan Valley
Google is your friend
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Google.com/whatispecanvalley=noresultsfound::pleaseuseareallocation
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Brownwood
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Houston = aWaRd
That Ruth fella prolly Pretty upset he only got one game
And for real what is Pecan Valley
Perhaps a better formed question will lead to better results. You are asking what, why wouldnt you ask, Where? Since it is clearly a Chapter and Chapters are typically known by the location or area they are in.
As a suggestion: "where is pecan valley football officials" might lead you to the answer by which you seek.
Thank You, have a nice day.
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As a suggestion: "where is pecan valley football officials" might lead you to the answer by which you seek.
Thank You, have a nice day.
You done for the season and still collecting ICs.
Apparently my method worked bc the BJ above your response answer my question but thanks for your suggestion Mr Grammar guy. ::)
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You done for the season and still collecting ICs.
Apparently my method worked bc the BJ above your response answer my question but thanks for your suggestion Mr Grammar guy. ::)
It is never too late to learn from your mistakes. If you aren't moving forward, you are falling behind.
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Here ya go Houston ref let me hold your trophy for you aWaRd. .
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That Ruth fella prolly Pretty upset he only got one game
You think?
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Sure wish some simple penalty enforcement was done correctly. Fouls by Team A on the punt can be added on. SA crew made Muenster decline a holding foul by Team A announcing it was declined because it was before the kick. That rule only changed oh 7 years ago.
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Here ya go Houston ref let me hold your trophy for you aWaRd. .
Thanks...??? ::scratcheshead
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Google.com/whatispecanvalley=noresultsfound::pleaseuseareallocation
Real tough to find.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/f9091eeb752c235981c43adf960a0248.jpg)
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Real tough to find.
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Although not real hard to READ now, thanks. ;-)
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Real tough to find
Apparently...it took you three days but thanks for the effort Skylar
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Where can we find the spreadsheet breakdown of games by chapter.
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Where can we find the spreadsheet breakdown of games by chapter.
Same link. Scroll all the way down.