Author Topic: High school football  (Read 2777 times)

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Offline Les Huisingh

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High school football
« on: May 23, 2021, 08:46:46 AM »
4th and 5 from B 40 yard line, Team A try a 40 yard field goal. Try is short ball lands on the 8 and rolls to 1 yard line with no one touching it.
Players from both teams thinking the play is over walk away and the official then blows his whistle with ball on 1 yard line.
Where does the new series start for 1st and 10.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: High school football
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2021, 09:34:35 AM »
R's ball 1-10 at the now A1 yl.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: High school football
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2021, 10:45:21 AM »
In NFHS, a field goal is just a punt that can you score on.

Since it didn't score points, what would the result be if it had been a punt? (AKA, what HLinNC said)

For a fun little aside, here is a video that explains a bit as to why this is NOT the case in other codes -- college kickers got too good at least hitting the end zone from really far away, and absurdly long field goals started to become used as long punts.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: High school football
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021, 02:16:13 PM »
Welcome, Les, to our forum. I hope you find it both interesting and informative. In other codes a missed field goal is treated sorta' like an incomplete pass and brought back to the line of scrimmage or even the spot of the kick. As ncwingman stated, this prevents a team from trying a long field goal in lieu of a punt. In all codes, a missed field goal into the end zone is a touchback if the previous line of scrimmage was inside the 20. IMHO, field goals become boring at the pro level and excitement sells tickets. I recall back in my daze of youth an incomplete pass in the NFL on 4th down that went into the end zone was ruled a touchback if the LOS was inside the 20....or did I dream that :o ….anyone  ??? ??? ?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 04:43:52 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline east louis

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Re: High school football
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2021, 03:29:03 PM »
 Treat FG’s & punts the same

Offline Stevennall

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Re: High school football
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 03:46:58 AM »
College kickers became too good at hitting the end zone from extremely long distances, and absurdly long football field goals began to be used as long punts.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: High school football
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2021, 09:47:21 AM »
Just wondering, at the HS level, considering the frequency, and impact, of actual problems regarding, "Play Clocks, Ready for Play  & Delay" both before/and since the recent adoption/additions/delivery of the current 40 second/25 second routine, have we REALLY accomplished anything that has materially and positively affected the overall game, that could have been better addressed  (with far less confusion, delay and COST) by simply requiring stricter, more consistent application of long standing management control of "play interval" issues by field officials?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 10:03:49 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline HLinNC

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Re: High school football
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2021, 11:32:44 AM »
I think it has made us work faster in getting another ball in play so as not to have to re-set the play clock.  Conversely, I think it affected the ability to manage late game situations where the running clock rule spec hasn't been reached but it is still a blow-out.  A is having to take more snaps late when in the past we might have been slow on the RFP.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: High school football
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2021, 03:28:05 PM »
I think it has made us work faster in getting another ball in play so as not to have to re-set the play clock.  Conversely, I think it affected the ability to manage late game situations where the running clock rule spec hasn't been reached but it is still a blow-out.  A is having to take more snaps late when in the past we might have been slow on the RFP.

Not seeking to beat a dead horse, but honestly, has adoption of the 40-25 second adherence to a visible play clock actually, an uniquely, any meaningful benefit?  Getting another ball in play (in a timely manner consistently) is a benefit, but is accomplished by effective management by the field officials and improved sideline support for accomplishing the task, both of which have been improved by the recent attention paid to that particular effort, which should remain a focus and a priority.

Doing so consistently is the objective, so that continued resumption is starting the actual "RFP", at which point the R is able to signal, and monitor, a standard 25 second count allowed for a play to be started.  The objective of an additional 15 seconds to provide time to be able to prepare for a standard 25 second monitored "RFP" count is/was under the control of the R, who should be perfectly capable of recognizing any unnecessary/inappropriate delay and has the ability to react to start/delay that monitored count to match the delaying condition. 

Doing so on a, both, audible and visible consistent signal from the R allows all players, of both teams, to be consistently aware that the RFP count has begun.  Issues that delay the monitored 25 second count, could and should be dealt with individually.  Many such problems have already been addressed by revision of the sideline responsibilities for ball replacement and handling.  Existing manual signals by either/both the R and/or BJ, have/are effectively kept the signal caller aware of the RFP count receding.

Considering the cost or retrofitting fields, designing new procedures, have ALL these required practices proven necessary as opposed to simply adjusting/better enforcing existing practices? 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: High school football
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2021, 05:06:23 PM »
While I was a vocal opponent of the 40" clock, it hasn't caused the challenges that I felt it would. We don't  have any play clocks on any of our high school fields, so the BJ does the show. In 2019 (it's first year) we had a little confusion with the game clock operators on the silent wind after a new series, but they soon learned the mechanic. My major concern was for the coaches to understand it method, but I was soon to learn that they didn't care to understand, just to watch the BJ for his "poor man's stop watch". My second concern was the 40" dropping below 25" before the ball was read for play. In my games, it happened twice in 2019 and once this year (2020 was only 7 on 7 touch with running time). The BJ easily called TO and reset to 25". No problems were noted.

Has this added an improvement to the high school game ? Not that I've really noticed, but I've learned to live with it and have ran the play clock at several NCAA D-III games. Will any/many Maine high schools have visible play clocks soon? I haven't heard of any plans of that occurring, a couple of high schools play on close by college fields- with visible play clocks - but choose not to use them. I had a veteran NCAA referee once tell me : "Be careful what you wish for ;) !"...he may be right 8]

Al, your tag of 'upstate' May indicate that you're a Buffalo Bills fan. If so, they have two big matchups with the Patriots. If you wish, I offer the following friendly wager :

If the Bills win both, I'll close my following 5 posts with....

[/BILLS RULE....PATS SUCK
If the Pats win both, you would do the reverse. If the teams split, most total points breaks tie.

 tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: tiphat: (5-man crew)
b]

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: High school football
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2021, 08:29:25 PM »
Upstate (Capitol District) is where I've lived for some time, Ralph, but I'm "from" the Bronx (7 blocks from Yankee Stadium) and when is HS worked as a vendor for H. M. Stevens (at Yankee Stadium, when the Football Giants played there, and the Polo Grounds, where the baseball Giants once played.  I've been a Yankee and (football) Giant supporter since the beginning, and expect to go out that way.

Buffalo Bills are a nice team as are the NE Patriots (who have been extremely successful - except against the Giants), and I enjoy watching both of them, but they're both outside my wagering interests.  Both have very promising young QBs and it should be worth watching both for a number of years. 

Of course NE still has an eventual  HOF coach, in Bill Bellicheck, who I might remind you learned his craft as a junior member of the NY Giants coaching staff, under Bill Parcells. I am hoping both the Bills and the Patriots progress to the playoffs and ultimately one of them emerges as the AFC Super Bowl contender, where my customary allegiance for the NFC contender will likely be severely challenged. 

Come Spring, it will be a lot easier to debate which team "sucks".
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 08:31:50 PM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: High school football
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2021, 03:58:25 AM »
Thanks for your response, Al, in my daze of youth I,too, was a Giant fan. The Patriots weren't born until 1961 and didn't become 'big league' until Broadway Joe & the Jets proved that the AFL was equal to the NFL. While it was a bummer for the Pats to lose their perfect season to the Giants in the Super Bowl, I wasn't totally  :'( heartbroken. The Giants are still my fav in the NFC  and a good friend had married one of Dick Lynch's daughters. We attended that wedding and got to know the family. Lynch was one of the radio guys on the Giant network and was dying of cancer during that season. I couldn't think of a better way to end his final season at the mic than with a super bowl victory. aWaRd

I was totally  :'( heartbroken in 1956 when the Giants lost  :'( to the colts in OT  :'( for the NFL Championship. As I recall, the starting lineup was (pardon the spelling, I couldn't find my football cards):
QB - Chuck Connley, FB- Alex Webster, HB - Frank Gifford & Kyle Rote, C-Ray Witecker, G-Jack Stroud & Darrel Dess, T- Rosy Brown & Chuck Jennerete, E-Bob Snelker & Ken McAphee
Front four - Andy Robestelli, Rosy Greer, Dick Mogerleski & Jim Katcavage.
LB- Sam Huff, Harlan Sarvre, Lyndon Crow, DB-Dick Lynch & Erich Barnes,S-Jim Patton & Alan Webb.
Kicker- Pat Summerall , Punter- Don Chandler.

Some may be blended togather with other years ,but the coaching staff is solid:

Head coach : Allie Sherman,
Assistants : VINCE LOMBARTI & TOM LANDRY

...NOW IT'S TIME TO WALK MA' HUNTIN' DAWG



Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: High school football
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2021, 10:05:26 AM »
I was totally  :'( heartbroken in 1956 when the Giants lost  :'( to the colts in OT  :'( for the NFL Championship.

Head coach : Allie Sherman,
Assistants : VINCE LOMBARDI & TOM LANDRY

Ever want to drive a Cowboy fan ballistic?  Remind them the Cowboys were built in the image of the NY Giants, by their first coach (and Father) Tom Landry.

I was fortunate to be at that 1956 Championship game.  That was my 1st year working for HM Stevens, which extended past baseball and into the Giants home games.  I made it through the morning Shape-up, as a stand-by. Wasn't selected to actually work, but were allowed to stay and watch the game if we chose, as most of us did.

As the song goes, "Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end...'

Enjoy your walks with your Hunting Dawg, and a happy and healthy Christmas & New Year.  Spring training is right around the corner, when betting & proclamations begin all over again.  Lets revisit.     

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: High school football
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2021, 10:36:32 AM »
I believe your then employer, Harry Stephens, was credited with "inventing" the hot dog when he was hawking snacks at a New York Baseball Giant's game around the turn of the 1900's  eAt&. My weary memories of that :'( 1956  :'( championship game was :
Steve Myra (not related to Wellington) kicking the tying field goal for the Colts with seconds to go  :'( ;
Alan "The Horse" Ameche bucking in for the winning TD for the Colts in OT  :'( .
...I didn't watch another sporting event on our 12" black & white Philico w/rabbit-ears until the Celtics began their string of NBA Championships shortly thereafter.

Happy Holidays to you and yours, Al, until the Sox and Yanks take the field  tiphat: !

Offline PABJNR

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Re: High school football
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2021, 03:19:14 PM »
The last 4 posts were a really neat read Thanks Al and Ralph.


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Offline KWH

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Re: High school football
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2021, 01:52:15 PM »
Just wondering, at the HS level, considering the frequency, and impact, of actual problems regarding, "Play Clocks, Ready for Play  & Delay" both before/and since the recent adoption/additions/delivery of the current 40 second/25 second routine, have we REALLY accomplished anything that has materially and positively affected the overall game, that could have been better addressed  (with far less confusion, delay and COST) by simply requiring stricter, more consistent application of long standing management control of "play interval" issues by field officials?

ALF - I think you need to give up your fight!
The 40/25 is here to stay and just like you were told on the Texas page, the majority feel it has vastly improved "consistency" in the game we all love.
Visible play clocks do make it more obvious for coaches, players, officials, and fans and I believe they will begin appearing in time.
SEE everything that you CALL, but; Don't CALL everything you SEE!
Never let the Rules Book get in the way of a great ball game!

Respectfully Submitted;
Some guy on a message forum

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: High school football
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2021, 06:24:46 PM »
Actually KWH, sadly I have little doubt "40/25 second clocks are here to stay", unfortunately that doesn't guarantee that it's a practical idea, will justify the cost or confusion, or will create any meaningful benefit to the HS level game..

Unlike "some", I don't have the luxury (or delusion) to presume I "speak for the majority", so all I can share is my opinion (which I understand is much like anal orifices, in that everyone has one and may be different than anyone else's.)

Offline yarnnelg

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Re: High school football
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2021, 06:55:40 PM »
Everyone missed this ...

A1 has the ball on the 40 and attempts a field goal ...The attempt is for a 57 yard field goal. Goal posts are ten yards back and the setup 7 yards from the LOS. 57 yards ...Other than that everything else is good.