Author Topic: Down goes R!!  (Read 798 times)

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Offline PTReferee

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Down goes R!!
« on: November 02, 2021, 09:04:59 PM »
My first time getting run over on the field.  Any recommendations on how  I could have avoided this contact? But,  I bounced right up to signal the TD!

http://www.hudl.com/v/2GGsY8

Offline southarkumpire

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2021, 09:32:23 PM »
Wow! I actually saw that on the 40/29 highlights Friday night.  I live in NWA now.  You officiate long enough and it's going to happen. Being umpire for many years, I had my share of "collisions".  Most of the time I was the one left standing though.  Had a kid ask me one night after colliding with me and getting a forearm shiver.."Sir did you play linebacker?" Yep was my reply.

Your biggest issue was you pinched in too quick.  Stay wide and deep and keep all players in front of you (downfield) all the time.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 09:36:10 PM by southarkumpire »

Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2021, 05:51:35 AM »
My first time getting run over on the field.  Any recommendations on how  I could have avoided this contact? But,  I bounced right up to signal the TD!

http://www.hudl.com/v/2GGsY8
The only thing I can see mechanic-wise is you may have been hustling a little too much on the initial play. There’s really no need to crash the line and get up in the middle of the action. Much better to move sideways and get the angle. That put you in the middle of the mob on the turnover. If you had stayed back, you could have been waiting at the goal line. Regardless, collisions happen. Glad you’re ok. My old bones couldn’t take it.


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Offline HLinNC

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2021, 07:41:58 AM »
You got the HL right there.  No need to come crashing in to that area. 
 
On the int return, while it is laudable that you hustled to get to the goal line, honestly this was a no doubter on the score so it would have been better for you to hang back a bit and and to the middle of the field.

I believe the A back #5 could have avoided the contact, IMO.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2021, 08:11:00 AM »
In NHFS, wouldn't the shift convert to a false start, since both weren't set, and be a dead ball foul?

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2021, 08:23:28 AM »
I believe the A back #5 could have avoided the contact, IMO.

Staying a lot wider (towards the center of the field) would have been wiser, BUT

The player that clipped you, had ample opportunity to avoid you, and CHOSE to take advantage of the situation.  He may have gotten a laugh and some temporary bragging rights out of his "cheap shot", but the football Gods have a way of applying future consequences for "sneaky" behavior, nobody will ever see on film. 

Online bossman72

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2021, 08:27:59 AM »
In NHFS, wouldn't the shift convert to a false start, since both weren't set, and be a dead ball foul?

No, nothing converts to a FST in NFHS.  This wouldn't convert in NCAA either because everyone was set for a second.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2021, 08:40:49 AM »
But it does look like the R got a flag down for illegal motion. And, later, it looks like the L gets a flag down for ineligibles downfield.

Offline PTReferee

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2021, 09:14:10 AM »
Thanks for the mechanics help.  I will verbalize to myself to stay put and let they play develop better.  And yes,  2 fouls on the play, both declined.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2021, 10:24:09 AM »
Thanks for the mechanics help.  I will verbalize to myself to stay put and let they play develop better.  And yes,  2 fouls on the play, both declined.

I wouldn't say "stay put." When there is a live-ball turn-over, the R should be thinking that he should move toward the middle of the field, AND start retreating hard toward the defending team's goal line. Ideally, you will be on the goal line if/when the BC crosses. Those types of plays tend to migrate toward a sideline, so the middle of the field affords the greatest opportunity to 1) get/stay out of the way and 2) allow you to continue to officiate while getting/staying out of the way.
Yeah, that was going to be hard to do from your position at the moment the interception occurred, but that was because, as others have pointed out, you were way too close to the actors, and moving too hard downfield at that point. Avoid moving forward until the action has moved downfield, and the actors have all moved downfield. Keep a minimum 10-yard cushion to the nearest player, at all times while the ball is alive. Flow easily horizontally as necessary, but retreat toward A's goal line any time the action moves backward. If a QB drops back to pass, move away at a 45 degree angle from him, to keep your cushion, and put yourself "in the clear" should he start to scramble. If he scrambles, let him pass you toward the sideline, and be thinking of moving toward the middle of the field, so you'll be clear should he reverse course.
Don't get so wide that you get trapped near a sideline. Move back toward the middle of the field if you feel yourself getting 'pinched' toward a sideline.

But, I am with some others in that I truly believe that the guy that hit you saw an opportunity to 'pop' a referee, and then claim he was just trying to get to the BC. Well, guess what? Calling Turkey Turds on that, but it doesn't matter - you don't get to clobber an official, regardless of where he is. We are part of the game, and we can't evaporate. We do the best we can to stay out of the way, but, when we can't, that's just the breaks. Brush by, but you don't get to purposely take out an official. 

Offline Covid 22

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2021, 10:52:52 AM »
If I was the R, the LJ might be looking for another crew after viewing this video.   He had a direct line of site to the obvious intentional push in the back.  The player took a direct line to the R.  At the very least, I would send a copy to the State for review.   That kid does not deserve to finish the season.
 

Offline Etref

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2021, 11:03:59 AM »
If I was the R, the LJ might be looking for another crew after viewing this video.   He had a direct line of site to the obvious intentional push in the back.  The player took a direct line to the R.  At the very least, I would send a copy to the State for review.   That kid does not deserve to finish the season.
 

What he said!
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2021, 07:43:03 PM »
The back to your left sure looks like a FST to me.  Flag that and this play would have never happened.  But, you'll get trucked eventually anyways so as others have said, don't chase the play.

Offline refjeff

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2021, 09:36:10 AM »
There is no false start. One of the wings has incorrectly gone in motion.  Not that unusual, I saw it happen three times this year at various levels.  Two times the coach called time out to avoid the penalty.

Since two wings are moving it is illegal motion, a live ball foul.  I know some officials who, under the philosophy of "nothing good will happen," will convert this to a false start and kill the play.  There is no justification in the rule or case books to do that, and in this play would have cheated B out of a TD.

In Ohio Gold Book mechanics the R is 15 yards behind the LOS.  On this play, I would move parallel to the LOS, and even give some ground to maintain my cushion.  Most of the time, when the play ends I still want to be 15 yards back, letting my wings and U do the dirty work, so I can maintain a wide vision and dead ball officiate.  There has to be something specific happening to get me closer than that.  I spend most of the game between the hashmarks and go wider as the play goes OOB.

Somebody needs to try to get to the goalline with the play.  Good job by you to hustle.

I don't see anything but an accidental collision with #5.  He has his eyes on the runner and likely has no idea you are moving into his path until the last instant.  He extends his hands to ward off a collision and falls down in the process.  He should not be suspended for the season, DQ'd from the game, or even called for a foul.







Offline PABJNR

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2021, 11:28:03 AM »
I would have a hard time arguing against if someone sees this particular play as a false start, because I think the action by the near side wing meets requirements for a false start.


ART. 7 ... After the ball is ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:

a. A Shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.

If the shift is judged to simulate action then FST.

If the shift is judged to not simulate action then illegal motion.


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Offline refjeff

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2021, 12:24:34 PM »
I would have a hard time arguing against if someone sees this particular play as a false start, because I think the action by the near side wing meets requirements for a false start.


ART. 7 ... After the ball is ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:

a. A Shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.

If the shift is judged to simulate action then FST.

If the shift is judged to not simulate action then illegal motion.


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The near wing went in motion, seeing the far wing in motion he realized he has made a mistake and stopped and attempted to reset.
 Not an unusual error, I saw it three times this year.  Nothing about it "simulates action at the snap." 

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2021, 02:30:48 PM »
The back to your left sure looks like a FST to me.  Flag that and this play would have never happened.  But, you'll get trucked eventually anyways so as others have said, don't chase the play.

I think the flag here was for IM since both flanker backs started in motion at the same time meaning that they both had to reset prior to the snap and did not.  And I would go with IM and not FS since both players are backs and IMHO simply botched who was supposed to be going in motion.
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Offline PABJNR

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2021, 09:15:00 PM »
Let me ask this….if the DE would have jumped into the NZ when the back started/stopped what foul would you have had?


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Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2021, 09:21:39 PM »
Let me ask this….if the DE would have jumped into the NZ when the back started/stopped what foul would you have had?
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Same thing you would have if only one back went in motion.  Offside B.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2021, 12:25:55 PM »
Suppose you had a QB under center and a single back behind him.  QB starts his cadence and the back makes the same move as we see in this play.  No other backs are moving in my scenario.  FST?

Offline refjeff

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2021, 02:50:27 PM »
Same thing you would have if only one back went in motion.  Offside B.
Encroachment B, and a possible UNS on B's coach when he loses his mind.   ^flag

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2021, 08:19:45 PM »
Suppose you had a QB under center and a single back behind him.  QB starts his cadence and the back makes the same move as we see in this play.  No other backs are moving in my scenario.  FST?

I'd have a FST. 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Down goes R!!
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2021, 07:03:31 AM »
"GIT OUTA' TOWN BEFORE THE SUN GOES DOWN..."

While this might be a line from an ole' western, IMHO, it also applies on the gridiron. As a U, read the guards as they will let you know what type of play is about occur - then don't be part of it.

As a R, you should always maintain an empty 5 yard belt between you and a scrambling QB. You get a much better panoramic view of oncoming tacklers and strongly reduce your fear factor.

As a wing, play the sidelines until the play is over. Your top priority - and most visible on film - is in/out of bounds. Being on the sidelines keeps the play in front of you for consistency in marking forward progress.

As a BJ, you've got plenty of time to "git outa' town" so do it. You can see the whole play from a distance much better than when you are part of the play yourself.

MAKING THE CALL = MAKING THE CALL AND STAYING SAFE....

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