Author Topic: IW or not, what's your thought ???  (Read 734 times)

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Offline Ralph Damren

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IW or not, what's your thought ???
« on: November 22, 2021, 09:28:26 AM »
The eager tweeter :!# who tweets  :!# while the runner sweeps the end is surely flagged  ^flag( buys first round eAt&) , but there are several situations that could involve opinions...what's yours....

PLAY #!: Runner is held up for a split-second... :o whistle sounds...runner breaks away.

PLAY #2: Pass is muffed by A, ball remains airborne... :o whistle sounds...ball hits ground.

PLAY #3: Fumble, pileup ,B's Bubba is on top of ball... :o whistle sounds...it is then found that the ball is wedged between Bubba's armpit and elbow.

PLAY #4: QB throws what appears to be a backward pass, receiver drops ball... :o whistle sounds by wing who signals  ^no.

PLAY #5: B intercepts pass and is off  ^good well ahead of A players, as he crosses RF softball foul line (multi-use field) which is about A's 5....   :o whistle sounds by weary ole' WH who signals  ^good

[/THESE ARE NEVER ANY FUN, BUT WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ???b]

 :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: ((
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 09:32:10 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline SCline

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 10:14:03 AM »
#1 - not IW, rule forward progress stopped and move on. Hopefully the ďaggrievedĒ sideline is where the eager whistle came from.
#2 - this one Iíd have to see to decide. If the whistle arrives a split second before ball hitting ground, move on. If players have chance to catch, then IW
#3 - not IW, Bs ball
#4 - IW, this is probably the toughest call we make
#5 - IW sadly

Online dammitbobby

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2021, 12:27:30 PM »
5 - if that happened, and there were no B players in sight, and the kid still ran the ball into the EZ, Iím giving them the TD. While technically an IW, itís not right to let an error by an official cost a team what otherwise would be an obvious, uncontested touchdown.

If B is close, and could have a shot at a tackle, then Iíd stick with IW.

Itís calls like that unfortunately put coaches, players, and fans in orbit and only give more credence to the  suspicion of the fix being in, and only leads to more abuse of officials. Especially if that TD would be the difference in the game.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 01:38:28 PM »
I have a sixth:

K is punting. R88 signals for a fair catch, muffs the ball, whistle sounds... the ball bounces to the side where R88 picks it up off the ground. K's coverage team is 3-5 yards in front of R88.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2021, 05:47:36 PM »
I have a sixth:

K is punting. R88 signals for a fair catch, muffs the ball, whistle sounds... the ball bounces to the side where R88 picks it up off the ground. K's coverage team is 3-5 yards in front of R88.
Regrettably, this would be a "must" IW  :-[ . Thanks, NCwingman, for illustrating the most common IW, which occurs on a muffed fair catch. We want to protect the receiver, but he is already protected by giving a valid fair catch signal. The K players know that and will try to avoid him. We need to hold our tweeting until he securely has the ball.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2021, 06:11:11 PM »
Sadly, I was the BJ on that play this year.

Based on game conditions, and the fact that K had pulled up far enough that they weren't in position to gain possession, we just kind of ignored it. R recovered after the fair catch, ball is dead by rule at that point.

The worst part is that it wasn't my first early fair catch whistle (although it has been a few years) and I really need to work on a better mechanic for that. That's my off season resolution.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2021, 07:14:53 PM »
Quote
I really need to work on a better mechanic for that.

My first IW was a similar circumstance in a JV game many years ago.   The kick was shanked high and short to my side.
Back then I was using a finger whistle as my primary.  After that IW, I began to turn it backwards on punt plays and free kicks.

I still carry a finger whistle in my left pocket for back-up.  I will slip it on for kick plays out of habit and I still turn it backwards.

You might give that a try.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 04:57:04 AM »
Back in my early daze (Nixon & Ford were presidents)I was a field judge (today's LJ) and back with the receivers on punts (4-man crew) and was a too-eager tweeter on a couple botched fair catches  :-[ :-[. A crusty ole' vet told me : "Kid, don't touch you horn UNTIL the catch is caught  >:( ". I've always used a "tweeter on a rope", and that made sense.  8]. I would :
(1) See the ball reach the receiver;
(2) grab my whistle;
(3) bring it to my face;
(4) stay focused on the ball;
(5) if held by receiver, then tweet  8]

That extra split-second seemed to cure my eagerness and might be worth a try. I also had problems back then of tweeting sometimes  when a receiver muffed a pass, even if the ball remained airborne.
Another crusty ole' vet once said to me : "Kid, honking on that thing while the ball is still in the air is sorta' like burping IF the ball hits the ground.  pray:;.IF it's picked off, it's like upchucking.  :puke: Wait for the ball to hit the ground before you blow 'er  8]" That,too, made sense.

Hope this may help.  tiphat:
 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2021, 02:51:21 PM »
I've all five situations happen in games that I was ref in. I didn't rule IW in any of those and would like your opinion of my opinion. Here was my rationale :

(1) A couple of times I've had a runner stopped for a split second and break loose A whistle sounded and we ruled his forward progress was stopped and a 'quick' whistle sounded. I only regret one : runner was hit and stumbled, landing on a teammate, regained  his footing with his free hand and off to the races. No questions arose as we whistled it dead, video later showed only one hand and his feet had touched the ground. That should have been an IW.

(2) A few more times I've seen a muffed pass tweeted while still airborne. The football gods  pray:; pray:; pray:; pray:; pray:; were with us and the ball fell harmlessly to the ground. I quickly reminded  the eager tweeter at the next opportunity : "Darn lucky it wasn't picked".

(3) Happened only once, digging  into the pile, we found big ole' Bubba hugging the ball. A closer look shown Bubba had the ball pinned between his elbow and armpit. Gave the ball to Bubba, no questions were asked.

(4) Happened only once in my games, but did occur in a UMaine- Georgia Southern playoff game with much more 'discussion' >:( . In my game, the pass that appeared backward, was muffed by the wideout. The eager wing tweeted and signaled incomplete  :o. Wideout's teammate recovered a few yards behind, once again, the football gods  pray:; came thru. I needed to choose between two bad calls : (1) Incomplete forward pass, (2) IW, repeat the down hEaDbAnG. I choose option #1.

(5) Played at a prep school's huge field turf. Other sports were played there,too (field hockey,soccer, lacrosse, baseball and softball) each sport had  different colored lines. It didn't take us long to screwup as the opening kickoff crossed somebody's foul line and an eager tweeter blew and threw  ^flag :!# while ball was several yards from OUR sideline =IW > rekick. Late in the game, with B trailing by a lot, B intercepted and was heading toward paydirt. As runner crossed somebody's line, still about 5 yards from OUR goal line, a wing (who had beaten me to the spot  :-[) tweeted :o and  ^good. The  :-[ wing ran up to me : "I think I really blew it  pi1eOn ". There wasn't an A player anywhere near the runner ,and I responded: "NO, you were just practicing  ;) ^good".

While I'd never hide a whistle, I feel the above situations, you may have a choice. How do you guys feel about m choices  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?

                              :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR: :sTiR:

Offline yarnnelg

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2021, 07:12:42 PM »
"Sadly, I was the BJ on that play this year."

I've been at BJ twice ....Keep telling my White Hat ...you don't want me there. I have nightmares about BJ. I was an All Conference Safety. I have this fear of forgetting where I am, intercepting the deep pass, running it 80 yards for the TD.

Looking back at the field .....continue running for the locker room, then beating on the door until someone let's me in. To Hide ...

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2021, 12:33:07 PM »
5 - if that happened, and there were no B players in sight, and the kid still ran the ball into the EZ, Iím giving them the TD. While technically an IW, itís not right to let an error by an official cost a team what otherwise would be an obvious, uncontested touchdown.

If B is close, and could have a shot at a tackle, then Iíd stick with IW.

Itís calls like that unfortunately put coaches, players, and fans in orbit and only give more credence to the  suspicion of the fix being in, and only leads to more abuse of officials. Especially if that TD would be the difference in the game.

A general reminder/caution is, "No matter how hard you suck on a whistle, you cant pull a tweet back". 

I agree with your reaction (as you describe this SPECIFIC situation) however, I would suggest DO NOT signal TD.  Rather stop play, after the runner crossed the goal and report to the R, who is undoubtedly going to want to conference with the entire crew to assess what happened. 

Contribute your details, (where the player was when you heard the whistle, what was the nature, IF ANY, of his progress being threatened before crossing the line) and allow the Referee to digest ALL the details regarding the whistle, before making, and signaling HIS conclusive judgment regarding the ENTIRE play.

Thankfully, the awful practice of spectators (jerks) sounding personal whistles from the stands seems to have retired to history's trash bin, where God willing it will stay.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2021, 07:13:00 AM »
Thankfully, the awful practice of spectators (jerks) sounding personal whistles from the stands seems to have retired to history's trash bin, where God willing it will stay.

Maybe where you live.  We had this happen to one of our crews during a playoff game just a few weeks ago.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2021, 09:09:38 AM »
Maybe where you live.  We had this happen to one of our crews during a playoff game just a few weeks ago.

"STUPID is as stupid does", and unfortunately "Stupid" may be one of the last errors humanity figures out how to eliminate.




stupid"

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2021, 01:50:12 PM »
I just retrieved an IW to beat all IWs  posted under War Stories that I felt you guys might enjoy.

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2021, 02:40:55 PM »
The eager tweeter :!# who tweets  :!# while the runner sweeps the end is surely flagged  ^flag( buys first round eAt&) , but there are several situations that could involve opinions...what's yours....

PLAY #!: Runner is held up for a split-second... :o whistle sounds...runner breaks away.
I see no problem here.  Forward progress stopped.  Judgement call.  NO IW

PLAY #2: Pass is muffed by A, ball remains airborne... :o whistle sounds...ball hits ground.
I think you need to call IW here to preserve our credibility.

PLAY #3: Fumble, pileup ,B's Bubba is on top of ball... :o whistle sounds...it is then found that the ball is wedged between Bubba's armpit and elbow.  NO IW.  official saw that Bubba was on top of the ball with possession.  Play can be blown dead and if ball changes possession after the fact then it was stolen in the pile.

PLAY #4: QB throws what appears to be a backward pass, receiver drops ball... :o whistle sounds by wing who signals  ^no.
NO IW.  The fact the pass 'appears' to be backwards means it is not clear cut.  NO IW> Sell as forward pass.  NO CHEAP FUMBLES!

PLAY #5: B intercepts pass and is off  ^good well ahead of A players, as he crosses RF softball foul line (multi-use field) which is about A's 5....   :o whistle sounds by weary ole' WH who signals  ^good
NO IW unless a defender lets up on tackling the ball carrier.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 02:46:59 PM by Derek Teigen »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2021, 06:32:58 AM »
Thank you, Derek, for your imput. If a defender was in position to pick off a muffed pass, I would have had to rule IW. Our crew was lucky  :bOW, as those passes stayed airborne for only a couple of yards and became grounded out of reach of anyone except the  :-[ eager tweeter  :-[ .

Offline southarkumpire

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Re: IW or not, what's your thought ???
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2021, 01:30:03 PM »
"Sadly, I was the BJ on that play this year."

I've been at BJ twice ....Keep telling my White Hat ...you don't want me there. I have nightmares about BJ. I was an All Conference Safety. I have this fear of forgetting where I am, intercepting the deep pass, running it 80 yards for the TD.

Looking back at the field .....continue running for the locker room, then beating on the door until someone let's me in. To Hide ...

Old habits die hard. I was an All Conference Linebacker back in the day.  As the Umpire in my crew, I was prone to giving forearm shivers to any player coming near me during a play.  Just instinct I guess. Let's just say I never got knocked down by a player, and put several on their backs unintentionally.  I remember one telling me "Dang Mister Ref, that will get me laughed at on film study in the morning" LOL