Author Topic: We have to catch this type of stuff  (Read 847 times)

Offline TexDoc

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We have to catch this type of stuff
« on: September 19, 2017, 12:15:40 PM »

Offline Etref

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 01:12:01 PM »
Looked like the R was reaching but never pulled.   ^flag
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 02:55:36 PM by Etref »
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 01:52:55 PM »
Coaches comments are routinely exaggerated, but not in this case.  Indeed, malicious.  The 'hit' was solely intended to punish, if not injure, the opponent, and that is exactly what the rulesmakers are trying to eliminate from the game.

That's a classic running into an opponent obviously out of the play, and, in this case, flagrant.  15 yards, auto first, and DQ the defensive player.

This is a coaching issue.  Coaches simply have to have a change of mindset, and teach their players to play hard, but "straight up."  Trying to 'hit' people must give way to blocking and tackling for their intended purposes only, i.e., interference for the ball carrier or tackling the ball carrier.  This idea of inflicting pain for the sake of inflicting pain has simply go to go away.

We do have to get these things, but we are neither the cause nor the cure for these situations.

Robert

Offline TexDoc

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 02:17:34 PM »
Coaches comments are routinely exaggerated, but not in this case.  Indeed, malicious.  The 'hit' was solely intended to punish, if not injure, the opponent, and that is exactly what the rulesmakers are trying to eliminate from the game.

That's a classic running into an opponent obviously out of the play, and, in this case, flagrant.  15 yards, auto first, and DQ the defensive player.

This is a coaching issue.  Coaches simply have to have a change of mindset, and teach their players to play hard, but "straight up."  Trying to 'hit' people must give way to blocking and tackling for their intended purposes only, i.e., interference for the ball carrier or tackling the ball carrier.  This idea of inflicting pain for the sake of inflicting pain has simply go to go away.

We do have to get these things, but we are neither the cause nor the cure for these situations.

Robert

Agreed.  But we first have to catch and penalize these actions.  The coach of the defender should take proactive action and suspend his player as punishment to send a message.

Offline TXMike

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Offline The Roamin' Umpire

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2017, 02:58:10 PM »
http://texashsfootball.com/silsbee-player-disciplined-blindside-hit-jasper-quarterback-video/

Notable here is that the article says the officiating crew was shorthanded. There's no back judge (and I think we'd be able to see him), so this is either a six-person crew or a four-person crew.

'Round here, we still work a lot of games with four officials. Under those circumstances, we would expect the backside wing to catch this - the referee will generally have moved on to watching the action near and immediately behind the ball carrier, especially given how late the hit is.

That said, R in the video appears to be looking right at it. He's *got* to have a flag on this - even if he didn't have a good look at it or came to it late, there's no one else around these two players; it's a pretty easy inference to draw. I know we're not supposed to flag things unless we see them clearly, but failing to flag this is a great way to end up with a brawl.

Offline 940AC

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 08:14:45 PM »
Agreed. R has to flag that hit. QB was not in the play anymore. Intent was to cheap shot the QB. 

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 01:13:27 AM »
Quote
But we first have to catch and penalize these actions.

We have. Not in this case, obviously, but that type of play has pretty much always been illegal and most of us have flagged that or something like it. I've thrown kids out at least twice for hits on the QB very similar to that. I've also called targeting and thrown a kid out for that.

Guess what? There was another game with targeting. HECK, the Utah Stanford game had 2 targeting fouls on the same drive! There were other hits on the QB with some flagged. There were others thrown out for other actions. There have been countless non-serious fouls like holding, block in the back, false start, etc. AFTER we've all thrown flags for that. If we want this type of hit completely out of the game, it starts and ends with coaches, parents and the kids themselves.

I know for a fact that there are college coaching staffs out there that tell their players, "hey, just go head hunting out there; we'll intimidate the officials into not calling that..." A very good source has actually heard a coach make that statement to a player. I'd bet there are high school staffs that do/say the same thing. The follow up article said the kid was disciplined and something like "this isn't what our team is all about ..." If the kid wasn't removed from the team, then yes, your team is all about that.

No, that's too harsh. Or is it?

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 09:14:46 AM »

'Round here, we still work a lot of games with four officials. Under those circumstances, we would expect the backside wing to catch this -
 I know we're not supposed to flag things unless we see them clearly, but failing to flag this is a great way to end up with a brawl.

You're absolutely right.  This type hit is as old as football and has ALWAYS been a PRIME responsibility of the offside wing official (in basic 4 man mechanics).  Apparently, and thankfully, there was no retaliation, as that hit could have very easily turned things ugly. 

Also, as old as the game, is the reality that young men sometimes make very bad choices and the consequences they earn form lasting scar tissue that helps prevent them from repeating very bad, impulsive choices.  From the follow-up reports, it appears the coaches and schools have recognized the gravity of the offense and hopefully will have the courage to enforce appropriately serious consequences so this young man understands the effect of a foolish decision. 

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: We have to catch this type of stuff
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 09:47:43 AM »
Before seeing the video I was to offer "the R is married to the QB."
But I saw the video, it seems the R was looking right at QB.
Not sure how it was missed.