Illegal Participation Enforcement

[Mad Mike]

A snaps the ball at their own 40 yd. line. QB scrambles in the pocket momentarily. Meanwhile, A1 runs a route along the sideline. He steps out of bounds on his own at the B 30 and returns in bounds at the B 28 where he catches the pass thrown to him.

As I read the NFHS Casebook, a similar play in SIT 9.6.1A indicates we would enforce this from the spot of the foul-which is where he returns in bounds (B 28). Some other guys in our association indicate because this is a loose ball foul, we are going to penalize it from the previous spot as the offense should not benefit from any positive yardage when they fouled during the down.

How would you enforce it and why?

[CalhounLJ]

A snaps the ball at their own 40 yd. line. QB scrambles in the pocket momentarily. Meanwhile, A1 runs a route along the sideline. He steps out of bounds on his own at the B 30 and returns in bounds at the B 28 where he catches the pass thrown to him.

As I read the NFHS Casebook, a similar play in SIT 9.6.1A indicates we would enforce this from the spot of the foul-which is where he returns in bounds (B 28). Some other guys in our association indicate because this is a loose ball foul, we are going to penalize it from the previous spot as the offense should not benefit from any positive yardage when they fouled during the down.

How would you enforce it and why?

9.6.1a doesn't indicate the spot of the foul is the spot of enforcement. It simply states the spot of the foul is the spot where A returns inbounds, which is correct. The other guys in your association are right. This is a loose ball foul with previous spot enforcement.

[Ralph Damren]

Remember,guys, it's never a foul to go OOB, it's just a foul when you come back in.

[Fatso]

Remember,guys, it's never a foul to go OOB, it's just a foul when you come back in.

Wouldn't this be Illegal Touching as well?

[bama_stripes]

Wouldn't this be Illegal Touching as well?

This is a common misconception.  Illegal Touching refers to touching by an ineligible A player (7-5-13).  Going OOB and returning doesn’t change the eligibility status of a player.(7-5-6d).  It’s still a foul, but there’s a big difference in the penalty for each.

Now, if A1 had been covered up at the snap, you’d have both fouls.

[CalhounLJ]

This is a common misconception.  Illegal Touching refers to touching by an ineligible A player (7-5-13).  Going OOB and returning doesn’t change the eligibility status of a player.(7-5-6d).  It’s still a foul, but there’s a big difference in the penalty for each.

Now, if A1 had been covered up at the snap, you’d have both fouls.

Great point. I'm not sure, but I think the college rule makes it illegal touching if the player is the first to touch the pass after coming back in. Just going out and back in is not a foul.

It's different in NFHS. We have a fundamental that states a player who is eligible at the beginning of the down remains eligible throughout the down, so there's nothing, including stepping out and returning, that makes him ineligible. The only foul we have is IP. So, to sum it up, he's an eligible player who is participating in an illegal way.

[Fatso]

Going OOB and returning doesn’t change the eligibility status of a player.(7-5-6d).  It’s still a foul, but there’s a big difference in the penalty for each.

Thanks.  So the IP is 15 yard variety?

[NVFOA_Ump]

Thanks.  So the IP is 15 yard variety?

Rule 9-6

[Fatso]

Rule 9-6

   

[Ia-Ref]

A penalty that does not fit the offense if the act was accidental.
Change is needed.  Please!!

[CalhounLJ]

A penalty that does not fit the offense if the act was accidental.
Change is needed.  Please!!

Agree. NFHS should adopt the NCAA rule. But don't hold your breath.

[NVFOA_Ump]

A penalty that does not fit the offense if the act was accidental.
Change is needed.  Please!!

But that goes back to the question that then crops up, how do we decide if it was "accidental"?

[Ralph Damren]

This is a common misconception.  Illegal Touching refers to touching by an ineligible A player (7-5-13).  Going OOB and returning doesn’t change the eligibility status of a player.(7-5-6d).  It’s still a foul, but there’s a big difference in the penalty for each.

Now, if A1 had been covered up at the snap, you’d have both fouls.

If A had been covered @ snap = multiple fouls =B coach's choice = 5 & down counts or 15 & replay down. Don't just assume he wants the 15.

[KWH]

9.6.1a doesn't indicate the spot of the foul is the spot of enforcement. It simply states the spot of the foul is the spot where A returns inbounds, which is correct. The other guys in your association are right. This is a loose ball foul with previous spot enforcement.

Agree with CalhounLJ - This is a common misunderstanding, but, this foul occurs during a loose ball play