Intentional Grounding enforcement scenario

[Fatso]

Fourth and four from team A’s 8 yard line. A1 drops straight back into his end zone under a heavy rush. To avoid being sacked in the end zone, A1 intentionally throws a forward pass to the ground and there is no player from either team in the area.

What are B's options?

[lawdog]

Options are safety or safety.

[Fatso]

Options are safety or safety.

I know your answer is correct.  Can you explain why B can't decline the penalty and take over at the 4 yd line?  (I believe it's rule 7-5-3,  offended team can accept the penalty which would be a safety.  Or they can decline the distance portion of the penalty and have the down counted at the spot of the illegal pass - which is also a safety).   I guess my question is why can't they decline the penalty completely?  It seems like offending team can bail themselves out a bit by giving up 2 pts there instead of turn over on downs at the 4.

[bossman72]

I know your answer is correct.  Can you explain why B can't decline the penalty and take over at the 4 yd line?  (I believe it's rule 7-5-3,  offended team can accept the penalty which would be a safety.  Or they can decline the distance portion of the penalty and have the down counted at the spot of the illegal pass - which is also a safety).   I guess my question is why can't they decline the penalty completely?  It seems like offending team can bail themselves out a bit by giving up 2 pts there instead of turn over on downs at the 4.

It's because all illegal forward passes are returned to the spot of the pass instead of the previous spot.  Without that, a runner that gains 30 yards then tries to pitch the ball forward which then hits the ground would be brought all the way back to the previous spot.  That wouldn't be fair since they gained the 30 yards legally.

I think a good rule change would be for IFPs BEYOND the NZ to be returned to the spot of the pass only.  Behind the NZ would be returned to the previous spot, but you'd have the option to accept the penalty.

NCAA made the exception where IFPs from the end zone can be returned to the previous spot like an incomplete pass, which is basically the only time that the defense could possibly choose not to take the penalty.  Maybe the above rule change I proposed would make sense for only IFPs from the field of play would be returned to the spot of the pass.

[Fatso]

That would be a sensible rule change.  Thanks for the answer and input.     

[Ralph Damren]

IG is of the IFP family. IFP is considered a running play with the enforcement being spot of foul. The problem of making IFP a loose ball play is if a forward pitch was made after a 40+ yard gain, and dropped, it would be treated as an incomplete pass with previous spot enforcement. Sure, we could make an exception that IG in the EZ = previous spot exception. We don't like exceptions. A safety is not a bad result for B, 2 points & recieving a free kick.

[Ralph Damren]

It's because all illegal forward passes are returned to the spot of the pass instead of the previous spot.  Without that, a runner that gains 30 yards then tries to pitch the ball forward which then hits the ground would be brought all the way back to the previous spot.  That wouldn't be fair since they gained the 30 yards legally.

I think a good rule change would be for IFPs BEYOND the NZ to be returned to the spot of the pass only.  Behind the NZ would be returned to the previous spot, but you'd have the option to accept the penalty.

NCAA made the exception where IFPs from the end zone can be returned to the previous spot like an incomplete pass, which is basically the only time that the defense could possibly choose not to take the penalty.  Maybe the above rule change I proposed would make sense for only IFPs from the field of play would be returned to the spot of the pass.

Sorry, Bossman, I was thinking of my  post while you were posting yours . The only proposal I recall on this issue was succeeding spot enforcement on this ...free kicking from the 15. That was defeated as two points and recieving the free kick was penalty enough.

[bama_stripes]

We don't like exceptions.

With all due respect, that horse is already out of the barn.

[NVFOA_Ump]

We don't like exceptions.

You mean we don't like exceptions or we don't like any more exceptions, or we only like the exceptions that we like or .......