Federation Hit by Pitch

[cbrockett]

I just wanted to get a couple more expert opinions on a situation that occurred over the weekend.

This is youth baseball that play by federation rules.

A pitched ball is way outside the strike zone, hits the backstop and caroms into the back of the batters helmet.

My thought is this should be ruled as a Hit By Pitch.

my thought process is as follows;

Rule 2-28.4 a pitch ends when the pitched ball:
a. is secured by the catcher
b. comes to rest
c. goes out of play
d. becomes dead
e. or the batter hits the ball (other than a foul tip)

in conjunction with rule 8-1.1.d
A batter becomes a runner with the right to attempt to score by advancing to first, second, third and home base in the listed order when;

d. a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, provided he does not strike at the ball; or
1. If he permits the pitched ball to touch him (7-3-4), or if the umpire calls the pitch ball a strike, the hitting of the batter is disregarded except that the ball is dead. It is a strike or ball depending on the location of the pitch.

Any baseball gurus have any input.

[Ralph Damren]

Welcome, cbrockett, to the Forum. I hope you find it both enjoyable and informative.

IMHO, once the pitch has passed the batter he can't be hit with it. It may not be spelled out in any rulebook, but your play would appear to be similar to a pitch in the dirt that was blocked by the catcher, with the deflected pitch then striking off the batter. We wouldn't consider that a HBP and shouldn't consider a defection off the backstop either.

Common sense is the best (unwritten) rule you have for this.

[Atlanta Blue]

Would you have allowed the batter to hit the ball that caromed off the backstop?

Take this play.  Pitch is as you described, way high and wide, hits the backstop.  Runner takes off from 3B trying to score on the wild pitch.  As it caroms off the backstop, catcher is trying to pick it up to tag the runner.  The batter, still in the box, takes a swing at the now rolling ball, whacking the catcher, and the runner scores.  Are you going to call catcher's obstruction (this is FED, catcher's interference everywhere else)?

Once the ball hits the backstop, I'm no longer considering it a pitch. 

[bama_stripes]

 Ralph and AB are correct.  There's a difference between a "pitch" ( for purposes of base awards) and a "pitched ball". 

[Atlanta Blue]

Once the ball hits the backstop, I'm no longer considering it a pitch.

In rereading my post this morning, I need to clarify something.  When I said I would no longer consider it a pitch, I meant it terms of it hitting the batter, or allowing the batter to hit the ball.  It would still be considered a "pitch" should it carom out of play.  Runners would advance one base for a pitch going out of play.

Does the rule allow for that difference?  I'm not sure it does, which makes you question a valid one.  But somewhere common sense needs to apply as well.  I don't think the rules contemplated a situation of a pitch bouncing off the backstop and hitting a batter.

[Ralph Damren]

There is/was a case dealing with a batter swinging after the pitch had gotten away from the catcher and hightailing it to first on strike three. The response was that where the pitch was no longer in the vicinity of the batter, it would not be called a strike and the batter would have to remain at bat. While a HBP isn't the same as a swing, I would assume the same principle would apply if one needed a form of "rule support".

When Abner Doubleday invented the game backstops may not have been in vogue

[cbrockett]

I think utilizing the two rules above, you can find support for HBP. No one could fault you with giving the batter the base.

Now is this ball dead by rule? Does the carom off the backstop, umpire, or catcher make a difference in whether the ball is dead by rule?

I agree, the common sense rule is to disregard the contact.

Thanks for your input guys.

[Atlanta Blue]

I think utilizing the two rules above, you can find support for HBP. No one could fault you with giving the batter the base.

Now is this ball dead by rule? Does the carom off the backstop, umpire, or catcher make a difference in whether the ball is dead by rule?

I agree, the common sense rule is to disregard the contact.

Thanks for your input guys.

No, it's not dead in any of those cases, it's still live.  But is it still a "pitched ball" for the purpose of HBP?  No good umpire is awarding that base. 

It's a difference in knowing what the rule SAYS, and what the rule MEANS.  You want another one:  Batted ball hits the top of the fence and bounces over?  What do you rule?  Look at the definition of a home run, and then of a ball in flight, and tell me how you came up with your ruling.

[Ralph Damren]

My suggestion to the Section I Committee rep (who is from Maine) for a rule change next year....

....a pitched ball hits his person or clothing, providing he doesn't strike at the ball; OR

 RULE 8-1-1d-3(new) : The pitch deflects off a player/umpire/fence and then strikes the batter. The ball would remain alive.

Any suggestions to my suggestion???

Until then, let's let common sense prevail