Author Topic: end of game or not  (Read 7490 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

zebra2955

  • Guest
end of game or not
« on: October 28, 2013, 08:06:31 AM »
There was a game in the northern suburbs of Chicago I have been reading about. Here goes.

Last play of game A's QB takes a snap and runs around end zone. Horn goes off, WH blows whistle and then the QB hands the ball to the WH. From my understanding the kid never took a knee.

So to me it sounds like an IW, not being there and just going by reports. So here is the discussion we have been having.

A has 2 choices, take the results of the play or run it over. Lets say they take the safety.
Now according to case play 10.5.4 sit B you do not extend the period at the end of the half. What about end of game? Same thing? 2 points and game over?

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 08:08:36 AM »
Correct.

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 08:08:51 AM »
It's just the end of the second half.  If that two points meant something, now we have a problem.  If not, I doubt anyone is going to worry about it.

zebra2955

  • Guest
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 08:33:51 AM »
Reading further on this play, even if we call the safety, we cannot have a kickoff, there is no time on the clock

Offline fudilligas

  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • FAN REACTION: +12/-5
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 08:25:50 PM »
What am I missing here  hEaDbAnG.  Rule 3-3-3c states that a period must be extended by an untimed down if there was an IW during the last timed down of a period.  The stated casebook play 10.5.4b has to do with a safety in which there was a penalty during the play so 10.5.4b should not apply.  Since there was no penalty in the opening paragraph, wouldn't there have to be extended down and A would not be allowed to take a safety.

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 09:13:16 PM »
It seems to me that, since there is no FOUL ^flag, the IW takes precedence - and the period should be extended. 3-3-4b4 specifies that a period is not extended when there a foul for which, by rule, results in a safety.

The result of the OP would be a safety absent the IW; but, as there was, it remains A's choice to take the result and replay the down (extended period) or accept the safety and the game/period ends.

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 07:35:25 AM »
The result of the OP would be a safety absent the IW; but, as there was, it remains A's choice to take the result and replay the down (extended period) or accept the safety and the game/period ends.

Per the OP: "A has 2 choices, take the results of the play or run it over. Lets say they take the safety."

A is obviously giving up two points to end the game.  Why would you even give them the option to replay?

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 08:03:52 AM »
Per the OP: "A has 2 choices, take the results of the play or run it over. Lets say they take the safety."

A is obviously giving up two points to end the game.  Why would you even give them the option to replay?

'Bama, I don't disagree.  Just trying to make the point that just because there is a safety on a play, without a foul, a period may be extended.

Offline Rulesman

  • Past Keeper of the Keys
  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +65535/-2
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 12:27:09 PM »
First problem is not having the timer turn the horn OFF. Classic example of why a horn should NEVER be used in football.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 09:49:03 AM »
If there is an inadvertent whistle on the play , there would be an untimed down regardless of the team in possession's choice (3-3-3c). Several years ago, the rule read : untimed down ONLY IF the down is replayed after an inadverent whistle. Then this happened :  In a mid-west state championship game, B intercepted a pass and returned for a TD -- :( however during the return :!# an egar tweeter blew his whistle - the first half had ended on the play  :o.. A delima.....B didn't want to replay the down as that would give the ball back to A. Taking the ball at the spot of the tweet :( ended the half. Results were the rule as is today, an untimed down if an IW during the last timed down. (6-1,4-2)

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 11:52:46 AM »
If there is an inadvertent whistle on the play , there would be an untimed down regardless of the team in possession's choice (3-3-3c). Several years ago, the rule read : untimed down ONLY IF the down is replayed after an inadverent whistle. Then this happened :  In a mid-west state championship game, B intercepted a pass and returned for a TD -- :( however during the return :!# an egar tweeter blew his whistle - the first half had ended on the play  :o.. A delima.....B didn't want to replay the down as that would give the ball back to A. Taking the ball at the spot of the tweet :( ended the half. Results were the rule as is today, an untimed down if an IW during the last timed down. (6-1,4-2)

But, Ralph, that makes no sense when the result of the play is a safety.  Team A (now K) can simply tip the ball off of the tee & fall on it.

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 11:58:18 AM »
If there is an inadvertent whistle on the play , there would be an untimed down regardless of the team in possession's choice (3-3-3c). Several years ago, the rule read : untimed down ONLY IF the down is replayed after an inadverent whistle. Then this happened :  In a mid-west state championship game, B intercepted a pass and returned for a TD -- :( however during the return :!# an egar tweeter blew his whistle - the first half had ended on the play  :o.. A delima.....B didn't want to replay the down as that would give the ball back to A. Taking the ball at the spot of the tweet :( ended the half. Results were the rule as is today, an untimed down if an IW during the last timed down. (6-1,4-2)

Ralph, not sure about your rule reference...6-1 makes no mention of an IW; and it's 4-2 speaks to the ball becoming dead.  4-3 is the key; and in each sub-section, a foul is involved.  In the OP, there is no foul, so no option other to extend the period for the IW. ;D

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 02:18:42 PM »
Yo, Curious - The rule reference is : 3-3-3c ..."A period must be extended by an untimed down if during the last timed down of a period, one of the following occurs : c. There was an inadvertent whistle." "(6-1, 4-2)" refer to the score of game 6 of the World Series and the series outcome.... aWaRd We of Red Sox Nation are of a jaded lot :). aWaRd. 'Bama - If team B/K chose to take the play = safety = free kick form 20 = as you mentioned, doesn't have to be much of a kick. I promise to refrain from any further reminder of World Series results......oh, did any of you guys watch the Patriots yesterday???? :)

Offline Atlanta Blue

  • *
  • Posts: 3781
  • FAN REACTION: +160/-71
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 02:26:06 PM »
oh, did any of you guys watch the Patriots yesterday???? :)
Yes, but I also saw the Celtics.....

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 02:40:27 PM »
Yes, but I also saw the Celtics.....
I beleive that they are the basketball team from way down there in Boston ??? Winter sports in Maine are : Ice Hockey, ice fishing, snowmobile racing , and going to Florida :). I did watch the last period of the Celts' season opener with my zebra buddies Friday night...up 20 to losing by 8. Probably I prefer Law and Order reruns hEaDbAnG!

Offline 4sports

  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
Re: end of game or not
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2013, 06:51:26 PM »
what was the call in the game?