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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: NVFOA_Ump on September 07, 2021, 06:52:43 PM
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We have adopted a mechanic to sound the whistle on a kick try as soon as the ball has been kicked and then cleared the LOS while airborne. This seems to be a good way to head off any extracurricular activity since by rule the ball is dead once it has crossed the plane of the goal line and cannot be legally possessed by either team after that has happened.
What do other states/crews do on kicking trys?
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Generally speaking, this is what we do as well. When I'm back judge, if the ball has obviously been kicked, I want to blow the whistle, spit it out, and then be able to confirm yes/no before signaling. This means I'm blowing as the ball is approaching the uprights.
The ball is dead when it is obvious a kick try cannot score, so a blocked kick cannot be picked up and run in for two. However, if it's a kick/thud that never makes it over the line, that's the R's whistle, since I'll never clearly see the ball from under the uprights.
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I used to blow it from HL when it crossed the LOS. Now the BJ blows it but I 'm not really sure when.
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Blow the whistle when the ball becomes dead by rule. Anything else and you leave yourself open to bad possibilities. Say you blow it early and the kick is no good. Team A's coach knows you blew the whistle before the ball became dead by rule and now he wants to replay the down because of the inadvertent whistle. You have no rule support to say he doesn't get a replay. Just wait until the ball becomes dead by rule and then rule on it like any other play.
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Blow the whistle when the ball becomes dead by rule. Anything else and you leave yourself open to bad possibilities. Say you blow it early and the kick is no good. Team A's coach knows you blew the whistle before the ball became dead by rule and now he wants to replay the down because of the inadvertent whistle. You have no rule support to say he doesn't get a replay. Just wait until the ball becomes dead by rule and then rule on it like any other play.
I get what you're saying, but just because A's coach complains doesn't mean he's right. If the kicked ball clears the blockers, the whistle isn't going to alter the flight of the ball or somehow influence the result of the play. There is nothing else any player can do to influence the outcome of the play, so it's permissible to blow the whistle to let them know not to do anything stupid because the play is effectively over.
Furthermore, the ball is dead when it is apparent the kick will not score (8-3-2b). The ball does not have to cross the plane of the uprights for it to be "apparently" going wide.
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I used to tweet my tweeter as soon as the kick was off. I've been on our manual committee a few times over the years and once suggested this is a possible mechanic. An elder pointed out that if you tweeted and THEN had roughing the kicker or holder, one could argue that you have a dead ball personal foul to be enforced on the kickoff and no replay of PAT. A flag for RUNNING INTO the kicker or holder, one could argue, should be disregarded as that can't be a dead ball foul.
I don't like to argue yEs: . I now tweet my tweeter as the ball sails thru the pipes 8] .
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I also used to advocate for this mechanic. Now I feel that the possibility of an IW if someone goes brain dead on a short FG attempt simply isn’t worth it.
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I also used to advocate for this mechanic. Now I feel that the possibility of an IW if someone goes brain dead on a short FG attempt simply isn’t worth it.
Good point, 'Bama, wiggle our whistles before a field goal is attempted to remind that the ball remains alive. We need to remember that a FGA is just like a punt.
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I also used to advocate for this mechanic. Now I feel that the possibility of an IW if someone goes brain dead on a short FG attempt simply isn’t worth it.
I agree. I'd much rather have a slow whistle (or no whistle) on a try than a quick one on a field goal attempt
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When I worked HS, our crew never blew a whistle on tries. We just used our voices. This was also to prevent the accidental blocked field goal inadvertent whistle.
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When I worked HS, our crew never blew a whistle on tries. We just used our voices. This was also to prevent the accidental blocked field goal inadvertent whistle.
Very good point, Bossman, I yell: "IT'S GONE..." as soon as any scrimmage kick is kicked and as soon as any forward pass is thrown. IMHO, this tells the defense to put on the brakes, reminds the umpire to watch for the ball crossing the LOS, and gives me a barometer for a roughing foul. If I finish the '..E' of my yell, it probably is a flag ^flag.
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I have seen this done by someone in another unit and it creates confusion, is not an official mechanic, and will only catch up with you in a crucial situation causing an unintended IT house. Not a good idea. The onus is on the defense not to foul, your whistle won't stop that.
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i am a firm believer in having the R blow the whistle on PAT's....he has the best view of what is happening and would blow accordingly to what is happening....i would rather have the BJ concentrate on the uprights rather than blowing the ball dead.....i have seen too many times on short field goals where some officials forget it is a FG rather than a PAT and blow the ball dead when it is blocked....i also talk via the radio and remind the officials that it is a FG and not blow the whistle ....(see earlier post on last play of game) ....my opinion but it seems to work well
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I always liked it when the R just blows the whistle as soon as it leaves the kicker's foot (PAT only; not FG). Never had anybody complain about an inadvertent whistle but technically that could be, huh?
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i am a firm believer in having the R blow the whistle on PAT's....he has the best view of what is happening and would blow accordingly to what is happening....i would rather have the BJ concentrate on the uprights rather than blowing the ball dead.....i have seen too many times on short field goals where some officials forget it is a FG rather than a PAT and blow the ball dead when it is blocked....i also talk via the radio and remind the officials that it is a FG and not blow the whistle ....(see earlier post on last play of game) ....my opinion but it seems to work well
This makes a lot more sense than someone under the goalpost.
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This makes a lot more sense than someone under the goalpost.
Yes I agree. I’ve never understood the whistle thing on a try. It’s a play. Officiate the play with normal mechanics.
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When I work back judge, I blow the whistle on kick tries when both me and the umpire (Northern Virginia Football Officials Association mechanics for 5 officials have the umpire under the posts with the back judge) decide whether the kick is good or no good, same as on a field goal attempt.
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When I work back judge, I blow the whistle on kick tries when both me and the umpire (Northern Virginia Football Officials Association mechanics for 5 officials have the umpire under the posts with the back judge) decide whether the kick is good or no good, same as on a field goal attempt.
Yeah there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. As covering officials that’s your call. Same way with a muffed snap or block PAT on the other end. That’s the R’s call so he should be the one to blow the whistle. As my assignor told me just the other day, sometimes we make this way more complicated than it needs to be. Just officiate the play.
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Northern Virginia Football Officials Association mechanics for 5 officials have the umpire under the posts with the back judge
On PAT (not FG), this works great. Swinging Gate formation, U in standard position; shift into kick formation, U steps back under post. After all, he's the closest; why run in a wing?
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On PAT (not FG), this works great. Swinging Gate formation, U in standard position; shift into kick formation, U steps back under post. After all, he's the closest; why run in a wing?
I agree it's a good mechanic for this reason, but who watches action on the snapper?
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I agree it's a good mechanic for this reason, but who watches action on the snapper?
Our mechanic doesn't have the U under the upright, but when I worked a state with the U under, I had no problem keeping an eye on the snapper and getting the upright with the BJ getting the cross bar and their upright. It is a much better mechanic than moving the LJ off the sideline where all kinds of things can happen on a bad snap or other issues.
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Our mechanic doesn't have the U under the upright, but when I worked a state with the U under, I had no problem keeping an eye on the snapper and getting the upright with the BJ getting the cross bar and their upright. It is a much better mechanic than moving the LJ off the sideline where all kinds of things can happen on a bad snap or other issues.
So you were the U and had both responsibilities?