Illegal formation or something else.....?

[HLinNC]

This is video from week 1.  We had a 6 man line on K so Illegal Formation was called and assessed.  However, K21 runs on the field from his team box and is running parallel to the LOS at the snap.  Could Illegal Sub or Illegal Shift have been in play here also?



I apparently am not real good at the Embed thing

[busman]

Why was blue 34's timeout not granted?

[mardunn]

I think you could go with illegal formation or illegal shift.  More than one player was moving at the snap, causing the illegal shift.

As far as illegal substitution, it looked like the player entered before the ball was snapped and was well on his side of the neutral zone, so I don't know if you have anything for an illegal substitution.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, illegal shift and illegal formation are both 5 yards, so either way you're right.

[HLinNC]

Why was blue 34's timeout not granted?

My guess- wasn't heard nor seen.  Not the most demonstrative TO signal I've ever seen.  I didn't even notice it til you mentioned it.  He does turn back towards R prior to signaling so I guess he may have been saying timeout at that point.

I don't recall black (actually) making any issue of it after the play.  Good point though.  I am adding that to my notes.

[Terror]

By my count you had 1 player on the line of scrimmage not 6.

[maven]

3.7.5 SITUATION A:

Substitute (a) A1, or (b) B1, noticing his team has only 10 ­players on the field, comes onto the field just as the ball is about to be snapped.

RULING: In (a), A1 must be on the field on A's side of the neutral zone, inside the 9-yard marks, and not violate the shift or motion provisions. Furthermore, the act of his coming onto the field must not deceive the defensive team. In (b), the substitution is legal as long as B1 is on the field on B's side of the neutral zone prior to the snap. (3-7-6; 7-2-1, 6, 7; 9-6-4)


So, I agree that the substitution is legal. That leaves 2 live-ball fouls at the snap, illegal formation and illegal shift. I really like the NCAA rule/philosophy of converting an illegal shift to a FST if A/K never comes set, and I might have shut this down and let them try again 5 yards upfield. (I know there is no NFHS backing for that, just sayin')

I also agree that there was only 1 player on the LOS.

[HLinNC]

I also agree that there was only 1 player on the LOS.

Week 1- white up 38-0

[Atlanta Blue]

Where is the Illegal Shift?  From the time the video starts, other than the player running on the field, no player on the blue team moves other than pointing, which is NOT a shift or motion.

Illegal formation?  Absolutely, but I think that's all you've got.

[maven]

Where is the Illegal Shift?  From the time the video starts, other than the player running on the field, no player on the blue team moves other than pointing, which is NOT a shift or motion.

Illegal formation?  Absolutely, but I think that's all you've got.

The shift is the 1 player moving. In NFHS, that's a shift (not in NCAA).

NFHS 2-39, "A shift is the action of one or more offensive players..."

[Atlanta Blue]

The shift is the 1 player moving. In NFHS, that's a shift (not in NCAA).

NFHS 2-39, "A shift is the action of one or more offensive players..."

Finish the rest of that defintion:

A shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap.

He never moved to a another set position after the huddle, so he can't fall under "shift".

But what did he do that was illegal (excepting the formation issue)?  When he ran on the field, no one else was in motion, and no one else was in motion at the snap.  So why was his "movement" a foul?

[HLinNC]

7-2-ART. 6 . . . After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands, feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap.

PENALTY: Illegal formation (Arts. 1, 2, 3) – (S19); illegal snap (Art. 4) – (S7- 19); illegal numbering (Art. 5) – (S19); illegal shift (Art. 6) – (S20)...........

10 of them were stationary but K21 never did come set.  Would his coming onto the field constitute a shift?

[Atlanta Blue]

I get it now.  While it would be legal for him to be in motion at the snap, it would only be legal IF he had started from a set position.

Since he was never set, they didn't have all 11 set at any point.

Thanks.

[TampaSteve]

right-footedK w/ R standing to his left?

[Atlanta Blue]

right-footedK w/ R standing to his left?

And only about 3 yards away from him!

[Johnponz]

If this is a 5 man crew R is on the correct side.  In 5 officials' mechanics the R always goes to the L side on punts.  This is because B is always on the H side and L is releasing at the time the ball is punted.  This is for sideline coverage.  In 6 and 7 officials' mechanics the R is on the kicking side of the punter.

I agree R is way too close to the kicker. 

[NorCalMike]

If this is a 5 man crew R is on the correct side.  In 5 officials' mechanics the R always goes to the L side on punts.  This is because B is always on the H side and L is releasing at the time the ball is punted.  This is for sideline coverage.  In 6 and 7 officials' mechanics the R is on the kicking side of the punter.

I agree R is way too close to the kicker.

NFHS mechanics have the R 3-5 yds outside the tight end 2-3 yards behind the kicker on the kicking leg side.  page 43 of the mechanics book.

[maven]

NFHS mechanics have the R 3-5 yds outside the tight end 2-3 yards behind the kicker on the kicking leg side.  page 43 of the mechanics book.

Ohio Gold Book mechanics have the R 5 yards deep and 10 yards wide on the wide side of the field.

[Johnponz]

I was quoting approved NJ mechanics.  Of course, if your State does not have an alternate approved mechanic go with what is in the book.