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Non-Officiating => Non-Officiating Discussion => Topic started by: prab on September 29, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
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Has anyone seen any national anthem protests, ala NFL, at a high school game?
I have not seen, nor heard of, any such protests in my area of Wisconsin.
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I haven't seen or heard of anything around here.
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Haven't heard of anything in Utah.
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None in Missouri.
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Haven't seen or heard of such action here in Michigan - YET; but somehow I fear it's inevitable. A more important question is: "What do WE do, if anything, if we observe it"?
I asked our State office for their guidance and was told to not get involved unless a team is not on the field when the GAME CLOCK reads 0:00. Except in State PLAYOff Tournament games (when they MUST be on the field for the actual playing of the National Anthem, the code is silent)...
Has anyone else seen guidance from their governing bodies?
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I saw it last year in NJ
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"What do WE do, if anything, if we observe it"?
Has anyone else seen guidance from their governing bodies?
My thought here is really simple. It's not part of our rules, and more importantly the United States Supreme court has made it very clear where this stuff falls. I would observe and report if asked, but I'd leave it at that since my game fees don't include a premium for lawyers.
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Just came across this - http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/high-school-football-players-national-anthem-protest-kicked-off-team/ac8asb8pjwe11a7egog3sextw
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Just came across this - http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/high-school-football-players-national-anthem-protest-kicked-off-team/ac8asb8pjwe11a7egog3sextw
+1 for Victory & Praise Christian Academy coach Ronnie Mitchem! Semper Fi coach!
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Haven't seen or heard of such action here in Michigan - YET; but somehow I fear it's inevitable. A more important question is: "What do WE do, if anything, if we observe it"?
Nothing in the rule book, so I don't do anything. I'll let the coach handle those situations
Saw it once in SC last year. A few players and one assistant coach. Saw some band members from a local college, who were playing at a football game, sit on the bench while their band played the national anthem.
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Only in girls' soccer. A high school on the Maine-NH border had a couple of girls taking a knee that made CBS national news. The state association has left any enforcement up to the individual schools and haven't heard of any incidents.
Personally, I like the rule added this year in American Legion Baseball that said basically...
When the Star Spangled Banner is being played :
You stand;
You remove your hat;
or
You gone.
When you buy the uniforms, you can make rules for keeping them.
:patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon:
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Not my game, but it's here:
https://dailygazette.com/article/2017/09/28/members-of-niskayuna-football-kneel-for-national-anthem
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This issue seemed to be drying up in NFL and let's hope it continues. I fear the next level after high school players taking knees will be high school officials. Aside from the "sending a message" that this act promotes, I'd have the following concerns if this enters the officiating community :
(1) Like the use of profanity in front of players, it then becomes a common vernacular -an assumed allowance of such language during the game; "taking a knee" will send an unwanted message to the players that this acceptable even of coaches and administrators have spoke against it.
(2) An official observed taking a knee ,as player(s) also take a knee, may send a message that those players will receive "preferred treatment" from the kneeling official. The frenzied masses already feel we have favorites on the field - don't give them anymore ammo.
That's my rant of the morning hEaDbAnG....
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I fear the next level after high school players taking knees will be high school officials.
Its already happened. I’m positive I’ve seen a picture posted somewhere, just don’t recall where.
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You may have seen it here:
http://www.kgw.com/sports/high-school/lincoln-hs-football-players-kneel-raise-fists-during-national-anthem/328190271
Alas, This was one of my games! We were told to do nothing, so, we did nothing.
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Sounds that Oregon, like Maine, has put the individual schools in charge of dealing with this. That's good as far as I'm concerned as I prefer to be looking at Ole' Glory during the Star spangled Banner instead of what the players are doing.
As my murky memory recalls, the International Olympic Committee handled a related situation in 1968 by sending our medalists , Carlos and Smith home from Mexico City the following day on a non-air conditioned bus.
Webster's Unabridged first definition of game : "Activity engaged in for diversion or amusement..." For many of us ,it is just that...a chance to leave worries behind. Let's keep it that way.
While I haven't faced the perceived injustice of those that protest, I do respect their freedom of speech. Our game should be a melting pot of all races, creeds, and religions. Let's keep it that way.
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I don't know what these protesters have been through in their lives, so I can't make any judgment as to whether they should be protesting, or how they choose to do it. While I personally haven't had those experiences, and choose to stand at attention with my hand over my heart, I can't say someone is wrong for doing it. If a player, or coach, or administrator, or band member, or parent wants to protest in this manner doesn't affect me. My only concern when it comes to this, honestly, is whether another official does it.
We're not there to be seen. What's the best compliment we can receive? That nobody even noticed the officials. If an official kneels, or raises his fist, or whatever, he's drawing attention to himself and (by extension) to the crew. Most likely, that attention will not be positive attention, and is going to make things tense to start the game. Things can get heated enough - we don't need to start the night with something already getting things wound up.
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One ideal I strive for every time I put on the stripes is to be absolutely neutral. Any time I throw (or don't throw) a flag, it is because a foul occurred -- not because I wanted to punish one team, not because it was a "make up call", not because I needed to help one team. Furthermore, any time I throw (or don't throw) a flag, I don't want people in the stands thinking any of the above either.
To that end, when I put on the stripes, I have no political affiliations. I do not belong to any social groups. I do not have any opinions on current events. I do not draw attention to myself.
If somebody kneels during the national anthem, I will not violate my neutrality by denouncing it, supporting it or otherwise acknowledging it. Off the field, I have my own opinions of the situation. On the field, I have none.
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The more I see and hear of this happening at the HS level, the angrier I get. Frankly, other than mimicking some professional buffoon, how many of us think that these kids have the slightest idea what the he#* they're protesting? Just to :sTiR:, let me pose this question: Is there any difference between a player doing a somersault as he scores a TD - or dunking the ball over the goal post after he scores - and this whole "protest thing". IMHO, in either case he is simply "drawing attention to himself" - in violation of 9-5-1c - and after officials have assumed authority for the contest (1-1-7) FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon:
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The more I see and hear of this happening at the HS level, the angrier I get. Frankly, other than mimicking some professional buffoon, how many of us think that these kids have the slightest idea what the he#* they're protesting? Just to :sTiR:, let me pose this question: Is there any difference between a player doing a somersault as he scores a TD - or dunking the ball over the goal post after he scores - and this whole "protest thing". IMHO, in either case he is simply "drawing attention to himself" - in violation of 9-5-1c - and after officials have assumed authority for the contest (1-1-7) FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 FlAg1 :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon: :patrioticon:
*raises hand* I certainly think they do. And we have no idea if the kids protesting have had fathers, brothers, uncles, friends etc. killed. In general, I think ncwingman has the right of it - we're there to be neutral and politics is best left far away from the football field. But you have suggested something that would make me change my stance - if a crewmate of mine threw a penalty flag on a kid for this, I would walk right over to the kid and kneel down next to him.
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One thing I would hope is UNIVERSALLY obvious ; as assigned game officials at interscholastic athletic events, WE have absolutely no participatory role in any "demonstrations" about ANYTHING brought into, or up, at any venue a game we are assigned to is being played at.
It should be just as obvious to EVERYONE that injecting politically divisive "demonstrations", about ANY subject matter at a High School athletic event is UNIVERSALLY INAPPROPRIATE and should be prohibited, by the responsible authority hosting the event.
Those behaving in such a deliberately disruptive manner should simply be removed from the event and whatever disruption they are causing should be promptly interrupted and terminated. Sadly, some parents, Teachers, School Administrators lack the skills and/or resolve to instruct the CHILDREN, under their charge and supervision, about avoiding inappropriate conduct and behavior as related to the venue such behavior and conduct has been chosen for demonstration.
With ALL CHILDREN ongoing guidance is necessary to teach and explain the differences between appropriate and inappropriate exercise of our unique Constitutional RIGHTS, and those with the responsibility to do so, who elect not to exercise their instructive responsibilities FAIL those CHILDREN, and their positions, and needlessly expose their charges to unnecessary and potentially harmful consequences.
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Totally agree that we should leave our political/religious/racial differences at the gate and worry only if a fellow crewmember can't.
:-\ Just wondering.....
What the national response would be if a big ole' Bubba ran down the center of the field waving the Confederate stars and bars ??? ::) :o
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Totally agree that we should leave our political/religious/racial differences at the gate and worry only if a fellow crewmember can't.
:-\ Just wondering.....
What the national response would be if a big ole' Bubba ran down the center of the field waving the Confederate stars and bars ??? ::) :o
And I agree as well - although this whole thing disgusts me. I also wonder: what if someone burned the flag at the middle of the field prior to the game. Where does it end? :!# :!# FlAg1 The interesting thing to me is the argument to "stay out of this" is that there is no Rules Based reason to address it. For that reason I quoted the two rules that, IMO challenge that theory. Nevertheless, as long as my State-directed guidance is to ignore these acts, I will (but I don't have to like it).
I too, Ralph, worry about officials interjecting their bias into a sporting environment; and that brings me to Roamin" Ump's comment about forcing a crew member (who threw a flag) to kneel next to a "protester". I find that equally offensive; but, maybe "Roamin" is secretly one of those officials we worry about... pi1eOn
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I too, Ralph, worry about officials interjecting their bias into a sporting environment; and that brings me to Roamin" Ump's comment about forcing a crew member (who threw a flag) to kneel next to a "protester". I find that equally offensive; but, maybe "Roamin" is secretly one of those officials we worry about...[/color] pi1eOn
I think you may have misunderstood me. If a crewmate threw a flag on a kid for kneeling during the anthem, I would kneel next to the kid - I'm not forcing anyone else to do anything. I believe, in that situation, the kids would need to see that there are some authority figures who will not stand (*rimshot*) for other authority figures abusing their power, and that such demonstration would be more important than football. (Or, indeed, my officiating career, as I wouldn't expect to ever be assigned another game after that.)
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For the curious, the superintendent of the school near here where there was an anthem protest has decided that there will be no anthem before/during this week's pep rally and game:
http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Niskayuna-won-t-play-anthem-before-pep-rally-12258447.php (http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Niskayuna-won-t-play-anthem-before-pep-rally-12258447.php)
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I'm mad. I protested in 1971 by standing up for the National Anthem. And got the boot.
Grant Heights Family Housing Base, Tokyo, Japan.
If you do something iffy, always make sure the Base Commander's son is at your side. Easier that way.
Woodstock, Jimi Hendrix version of the National Anthem.
Football team stood. Movie stopped, house lights up and we were escorted out of the theater. My Dad was sitting next to the Base Commander on the back row. Never got in trouble for that one.
Some of those guys went to basic that summer, to Viet Nam and never came back.