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Offline SBEII

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Play Question
« on: August 18, 2018, 06:07:10 PM »
Third and goal at Team B's three yardline. A1 fumbles and it rolls into the endzone, where B2 recovers. B2 attempts to advance, but is tackled. During B2's run, B3 clips at Team B's six yardline.
◾The ball is dead when B2 recovers in the endzone.
◾The penalty results in a safety.
◾First and 10 for Team B at Team B's three yard line.
◾First and 10 for Team B at Team B's 10 yardline

Doesn't one need to know if the recovery was made without a knee touching the ground?  The ball would be dead if B fell on the ball in the end zone. But if he bent over and picked it up, he would be able to advance it....correct?? What am I missing?
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 06:21:03 PM »
Well you certainly need to know if the knee was down or not. You also need to know where the ball became dead.


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Offline js in sc

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 06:38:05 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but A forced the ball into B's endzone where B possessed it.  If he was downed in the endzone, then it is a touchback, not a safety.  The basic spot for the foul by B3 would be the 20 YL but since the foul was behind the basic spot, the penalty would take the ball to the 3 YL where it would be B's ball 1/10
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Offline VA Official

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 12:05:38 AM »
Quote from: SBEII on August 18, 2018, 06:07:10 PM
Third and goal at Team B's three yardline. A1 fumbles and it rolls into the endzone, where B2 recovers. B2 attempts to advance, but is tackled. During B2's run, B3 clips at Team B's six yardline.
◾The ball is dead when B2 recovers in the endzone.
◾The penalty results in a safety.
◾First and 10 for Team B at Team B's three yard line.
◾First and 10 for Team B at Team B's 10 yardline

Doesn't one need to know if the recovery was made without a knee touching the ground?  The ball would be dead if B fell on the ball in the end zone. But if he bent over and picked it up, he would be able to advance it....correct?? What am I missing?

Sometimes I have to take a step back and realize I may be reading too far into a question. When the question states “attempts to advance but is tackled” it’s safe to assume he was upright when he recovered. If the question was meant for the player to be down when he recovered, it would say it. On this, option #3 is correct after enforcement.
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 09:21:24 AM »
Quote from: VA Official on August 19, 2018, 12:05:38 AM
Sometimes I have to take a step back and realize I may be reading too far into a question. When the question states “attempts to advance but is tackled” it’s safe to assume he was upright when he recovered. If the question was meant for the player to be down when he recovered, it would say it. On this, option #3 is correct after enforcement.

Agree (option #3 is correct after enforcement.)  NFHS 8-5-3c clearly establishes A's fumble responsible for the ball being in the EZ, resulting in a Touchback.  B3's foul, while B2 maintained possession, is a basic spot (where the run ends, as described in NFHS 10-4-4).  Enforcement for the foul, on a play resulting in a TB is the 20 yl.  10 yd penalty, leaves the ball 1st/10@ A's 10 for B.

















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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 09:23:39 AM »
Go back and read all that again Al


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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2018, 11:43:29 AM »
Quote from: CalhounLJ on August 19, 2018, 09:23:39 AM
Go back and read all that again Al

Whatever I missed is still hiding from me, can you point me to it.
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Offline js in sc

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 12:06:18 PM »
The foul is behind the 20 and the penalty is from B's 6.  1/10 from the B3.
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2018, 12:45:56 PM »
Quote from: AlUpstateNY on August 19, 2018, 11:43:29 AM
Whatever I missed is still hiding from me, can you point me to it.
It’s first and ten at the 3, not the 10. Plus, the basic spot is the 20 because of the touchback. The spot of enforcement is the 6.


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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2018, 05:04:08 PM »
Quote from: AlUpstateNY on August 19, 2018, 11:43:29 AM
Whatever I missed is still hiding from me, can you point me to it.

10-4-5d.  “The basic spot is the succeeding spot...when the final result is a touchback.”
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2018, 10:26:19 PM »
Quote from: CalhounLJ on August 19, 2018, 12:45:56 PM
It’s first and ten at the 3, not the 10. Plus, the basic spot is the 20 because of the touchback. The spot of enforcement is the 6.

Thank you ("There are none so blind as those who will not see")


















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Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 09:09:09 AM »
IMHO, the question would be if the clip occurred while the ball was alive. If B fielded the loose ball while on his knee, the ball would become dead upon his possession. If the clip occurred prior to that then 1st & 10 @ B's 3 would be correct. IF the clip occurred AFTER the ball became dead it would fall into the DBPF category with succeeding spot enforcement. If so, 1st & 10 @ B's 20. Remember, guys, the foul would have to be in the USC/DBPF family to be a foul...i.e...you can't have a dead ball hold or dead ball block in the back.

AND REMEMBER THE 4 W'S OF CALLING A FOUL......

WHO, WHAT, WHEN,
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Offline VALJ

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 04:22:27 PM »
Quote from: Ralph Damren on August 20, 2018, 09:09:09 AM
AND REMEMBER THE 4 W'S OF CALLING A FOUL......

WHO, WHAT, WHEN,

From a coach's perspective, the missing 4th W is  "WHY THE HECK WOULD YOU CALL THAT?!?!?!?!?"
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Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 07:23:02 PM »
Quote from: VALJ on August 21, 2018, 04:22:27 PM
From a coach's perspective, the missing 4th W is  "WHY THE HECK WOULD YOU CALL THAT?!?!?!?!?"

Just maybe, the calling official ACTUALLY observed something the coach didn't.
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Offline Tom.OH

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Re: Play Question
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2018, 09:07:13 AM »
Quote from: AlUpstateNY on August 21, 2018, 07:23:02 PM
Just maybe, the calling official ACTUALLY observed something the coach didn't.

The coaches can see EVERYTHING THE OTHER TEAM DOES
.
.
.
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But can't see what his team does...
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