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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: CK51 on October 30, 2018, 11:11:10 AM
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I'm curious what rule changes you guys would change or implement for the 2019 season?
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These haven't all been fully thought through and I'm sure I could be talked out of a few of them, but my list for starters:
Remove 3 minute warmup (not going to happen) or make the normal length for halftimes 12 minutes + 3 minute warmup. At least in my region, the teams still haven't adapted fully to this and aren't making great use of the extra 3 minutes. If anything it seems the players are more likely to be injured due to the lengthy break and the 3 minutes of just staring at the clock. Also, 18 minutes (and up to 23) just feels really long compared to pretty much any other sport as well as compared to NCAA (15 mins) and NFL (12 mins).
Allow the QB to throw the ball away outside of the pocket. I don't necessarily disagree with this rule, but I just feel like it makes sense to align with the NCAA and NFL rules here.
Allow uncatchable determinations for PI. I know we already do this to an extent, but it's an unnecessary argument when the ball is 15 yards overthrown but the coach gets mad about us 'making up rules' if we don't call PI there.
Have the NZ disintegrate when the ball goes beyond it. It just seems like common sense to me. If the ball goes 10 yards downfield and then comes back behind the LOS/NZ I don't see why the offense should be able to kick, pass, or have loose ball play penalty enforcement.
Restart the clock on out of bounds plays once the ball is marked ready for play, except in the last 2 minutes of the half.
Outlaw all low blocks. No FBZ exception. Hard sell, I know, but strictly for safety purposes.
That's all for now. I'm sure I'll come up with a few more and I welcome all criticism of my suggestions.
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Make live ball fouls out of all the ones that are currently dead ball fouls on free kicks.
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A few that I've suggested in the past (paraphrased). Would like to hear your thoughts yay or nay.
1) An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground. Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.
2) Participating with 12 players at the snap constitutes Illegal Substitution instead of Illegal Participation. The only difference between 5 and 15 is when we finish our count.
3) Editorial change to say the clock starts on the snap when "B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball." This eliminates confusion on when the clock restarts following a punt and the down is replayed.
4) KOB foul is only a foul if the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory.
5) Basic spot is the previous spot when the run ends behind the LOS. This doesn't fix the holding foul behind the LOS being enforced from the spot of the foul like everyone wants. That would still be the enforcement spot (spot of foul). But this would fix when we have a Defensive Hold and the QB gets sacked. This would be enforced from the previous spot instead of the end of the run. In addition, this can clean up the definition of loose ball play. So all runs, fumbles, and backward passes behind the LOS are now RUNS. Basically loose ball plays would only be legal passes and kicks. This makes it so much more simple. New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays. This cleans everything up.
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A few that I've suggested in the past (paraphrased). Would like to hear your thoughts yay or nay.
1) An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground. Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.
2) Participating with 12 players at the snap constitutes Illegal Substitution instead of Illegal Participation. The only difference between 5 and 15 is when we finish our count.
3) Editorial change to say the clock starts on the snap when "B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball." This eliminates confusion on when the clock restarts following a punt and the down is replayed.
4) KOB foul is only a foul if the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory.
5) Basic spot is the previous spot when the run ends behind the LOS. This doesn't fix the holding foul behind the LOS being enforced from the spot of the foul like everyone wants. That would still be the enforcement spot (spot of foul). But this would fix when we have a Defensive Hold and the QB gets sacked. This would be enforced from the previous spot instead of the end of the run. In addition, this can clean up the definition of loose ball play. So all runs, fumbles, and backward passes behind the LOS are now RUNS. Basically loose ball plays would only be legal passes and kicks. This makes it so much more simple. New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays. This cleans everything up.
1. I get where you're coming from, but I think that's going a bit far given catch rules and could also create some safety issues with players potentially landing 3 yards out of bounds/in the team box at full speed.
2. I'm 50/50 on this. I like it because it keeps the game moving, doesn't put so much pressure on the officials for these calls with regard to if they're going to get a player off or not and when the snap will occur, and still gives the offense the option of the result or 5 yards + replay the down. I just worry about the rare circumstances where the defense would benefit by putting 12 or more on the field on purpose, like 10 seconds left at the 50 so B puts an extra player on for the first play knowing A will get two shots at a hail mary anyways and 5 yards is a minor difference.
3. Seems good.
4. I assume you mean like a receiver touching the ball while standing out of bounds? I agree that is a weird one, but I feel like the exception would be fairly difficult to word in a way that doesn't have unintended effects on other rulings.
5. Why not just say that all fouls in or behind the NZ have special enforcement from the LoS?
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I like all the rule suggestions that brettjr described.
We need to make more rules consistent with the NFL or NCAA that have nothing to do with safety.
On kicks going into the end zone, ball must touch the ground or a player grounded in the end zone to be called a touchback. I think that the ball should be allowed to be batted backwards by K if the ball has entered the end zone in the air, and the player is diving in to stop the touchback. This is a very exciting play in NCAA and NFL, which is lost in NFHS.
Kicks caught by K in the air may be caught by K if no players of R are in the vicinity. Kick-catching-interference for catching a kick in the air when no R player is around is ridiculous. If a player knows the rule, he can simply wait for the bounce and pick it up off the bounce. A player shouldn't be penalized 15 yards for something lame like that which is not dangerous.
Allow the defense to return a 2-point conversion miss for 2-points. NFL added this recently. Make it consistent.
Remove the kneel-down. I hate this play more than anything in football. I know this will never be considered, but I'm putting it out here. Around our area, when the offense is taking a knee, they tell us, and the offense can't do anything else (or the play is whistled dead immediately and they're given a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty). The defense is not allowed to charge in. Why bother having this play then? We should use the CFL rule - if the offense doesn't gain a yard on a play inside 2 minutes, the clock stops. Allows for exciting finishes. You might still have a chance even with :30 on the clock if your defense can force the opponent to lose yards each play.
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1. Agree with bossman on - An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground. Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.
2. Would like to see "At the snap, at least seven A players shall be on their line of scrimmage." changed to "At the snap, no more than 4 A players shall be off their line of scrimmage (or alternatively no more than 4 in their backfield)." That would eliminate the illegal formation penalty for A when A has less than 11 players on the field at the snap and less than 7 of them on their LOS.
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Yes please implement the status on the OOB play.
I would also like to see the 5 TD facemask removed. I think too many times the 5 gets called when it should be the 15.
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Holding on A is 10 yd penalty from previous spot instead of spot of the foul.
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New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays.
Why? The simple explanation is “There are no loose-ball plays past the LOS.”
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1. I get where you're coming from, but I think that's going a bit far given catch rules and could also create some safety issues with players potentially landing 3 yards out of bounds/in the team box at full speed.
I'm not sure how it would create issues? This does not change the definition of catch, as the receiver still is required to touch the ground inbounds.
2. I'm 50/50 on this. I like it because it keeps the game moving, doesn't put so much pressure on the officials for these calls with regard to if they're going to get a player off or not and when the snap will occur, and still gives the offense the option of the result or 5 yards + replay the down. I just worry about the rare circumstances where the defense would benefit by putting 12 or more on the field on purpose, like 10 seconds left at the 50 so B puts an extra player on for the first play knowing A will get two shots at a hail mary anyways and 5 yards is a minor difference.
If you feel it's blatant cheating, you can use unfair acts. But for the 99.99% of occurrences of IP, it's because the officials didn't count quick enough.
3. Seems good.
4. I assume you mean like a receiver touching the ball while standing out of bounds? I agree that is a weird one, but I feel like the exception would be fairly difficult to word in a way that doesn't have unintended effects on other rulings.
This rule change just makes the rule wording consistent with case book 6.1.8C. So there would be no unintended consequences. Here is the rule snippet:
Art 9 … A free kick shall not be kicked out of bounds between the goal lines untouched inbounds by R. It is
only a foul if the ball becomes out of bounds while on or above out of bounds territory. If it is kicked out of
bounds and R does not accept a penalty for kick-catch interference on the same kick as in 6-5-4, R has the
following choices: …
5. Why not just say that all fouls in or behind the NZ have special enforcement from the LoS?
Because then you have exceptions for fouls in the end zone becoming a safety and other fouls like illegal touching, batting, kicking, etc that you would want to be spot fouls. This change requires no exceptions to the all-but-one
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Why? The simple explanation is “There are no loose-ball plays past the LOS.”
The rule change would make the distinction obsolete. Then it's simpler - all fumbles and backward passes are runs.
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These haven't all been fully thought through and I'm sure I could be talked out of a few of them, but my list for starters:
Remove 3 minute warmup (not going to happen) or make the normal length for halftimes 12 minutes + 3 minute warmup. At least in my region, the teams still haven't adapted fully to this and aren't making great use of the extra 3 minutes. If anything it seems the players are more likely to be injured due to the lengthy break and the 3 minutes of just staring at the clock. Also, 18 minutes (and up to 23) just feels really long compared to pretty much any other sport as well as compared to NCAA (15 mins) and NFL (12 mins).
Allow the QB to throw the ball away outside of the pocket. I don't necessarily disagree with this rule, but I just feel like it makes sense to align with the NCAA and NFL rules here.
Allow uncatchable determinations for PI. I know we already do this to an extent, but it's an unnecessary argument when the ball is 15 yards overthrown but the coach gets mad about us 'making up rules' if we don't call PI there.
Have the NZ disintegrate when the ball goes beyond it. It just seems like common sense to me. If the ball goes 10 yards downfield and then comes back behind the LOS/NZ I don't see why the offense should be able to kick, pass, or have loose ball play penalty enforcement.
Restart the clock on out of bounds plays once the ball is marked ready for play, except in the last 2 minutes of the half.
Outlaw all low blocks. No FBZ exception. Hard sell, I know, but strictly for safety purposes.
That's all for now. I'm sure I'll come up with a few more and I welcome all criticism of my suggestions.
The 3 minute warm up will always be there. In Maine, if both teams are out on the field at halftime we treat that as implied consent of the coaches to shortening the halftime. They are aware of this and can request the full 15 if they wish. We then instruct the clock operator to put up 3:00 and run down.
The tackle box rule aids the offense and the general feeling is a change isn't needed to upset the balance.
Some QBs never throw a catchable pass ;). Easy to judge with 7 or 8, not so easy with 4 or 5.
RFP on OOB -all for it - the addition of the 2 minute rule added on accepted penalities should help to add support.
DB fouls on FK = live ball fouls + tack on. All for it on K fouls.
Removing FBZ probably will never occur.
DISCLAIMER: These are only the muttering of an grumpy, ole' zebra and not intended to be of NFHS,NCAA,AFL-CIO,ASPCA and the like.. tR:oLl
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Have you guys seen the Schiano rule?
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/schiano-rule
it replaces kick offs with 4th and 15 from the scoring team's 40. They have a choice to go for the first (replaces the onsides kick) or punt from there (which are generally seen as safer than kickoffs)
not sure its appropriate for HS but its an interesting idea
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A few that I've suggested in the past (paraphrased). Would like to hear your thoughts yay or nay.
1) An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground. Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.
2) Participating with 12 players at the snap constitutes Illegal Substitution instead of Illegal Participation. The only difference between 5 and 15 is when we finish our count.
3) Editorial change to say the clock starts on the snap when "B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball." This eliminates confusion on when the clock restarts following a punt and the down is replayed.
4) KOB foul is only a foul if the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory.
5) Basic spot is the previous spot when the run ends behind the LOS. This doesn't fix the holding foul behind the LOS being enforced from the spot of the foul like everyone wants. That would still be the enforcement spot (spot of foul). But this would fix when we have a Defensive Hold and the QB gets sacked. This would be enforced from the previous spot instead of the end of the run. In addition, this can clean up the definition of loose ball play. So all runs, fumbles, and backward passes behind the LOS are now RUNS. Basically loose ball plays would only be legal passes and kicks. This makes it so much more simple. New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays. This cleans everything up.
(1) Strong support - makes sense.
(2) Neutral - while 15/5 is determined by how quick we are on the draw, we should treat #12 trying to get off the field differently than #12 being involved in the play.
(3) would help to clarify.
(4) Strong support- this was original intent with rule change back in 2000- I know, I authored it.
(5) Strong support - this would treat the QB sacked by FM for a big loss and same for QB that fumbles during FM sack. It would not impact the All-But-One principle that many don't want to touch.
Good job, Bossman, I hope to have the chance to support if on the ballot.
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Have you guys seen the Schiano rule?
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/schiano-rule
it replaces kick offs with 4th and 15 from the scoring team's 40. They have a choice to go for the first (replaces the onsides kick) or punt from there (which are generally seen as safer than kickoffs)
not sure its appropriate for HS but its an interesting idea
There hasn't been any discussion of this change, but one of this magnitude should be ran as an experimental rule in a few states first. I'll be sure to let you guys know if I hear anything.
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I've brought this one up before with no luck, but I'm still hopeful.
Make it a foul to have more than 4 in the backfield rather than less than 7 on the line. When A operates with 6 on the line and 4 in the backfield, they're already at a disadvantage - why punish them twice? In prior years, I believe the rationale for not accepting this is "It doesn't help anyone except the officials who would rather count to 4 than to 7." Given the other changes that make our jobs more difficult, what's wrong with one that helps us out? hEaDbAnG
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Remove the kneel-down. I hate this play more than anything in football.
Every year some kid does something stupid while the other team is attempting to take a knee. I don't know how to eliminate it, but I'm not a fan of the play either.
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Some good suggestions. I like the kick OOB and basic spot for runs behind the LOS suggestions. Also would be good with allowing the QB to throw it away if outside the tackle box. Yes, it introduces some complexity, but worth it from a player safety point of view.
Also would allow the following:
1) Allow a spike from the shotgun. Removes a frankly pointless distinction. We already have the requirement for the spike to be immediate and without delay - same principle would apply regardless of shotgun vs hand-to-hand.
2) *IF* the 40 second play clock is approved (and I'm slightly in favor of not approving it), then and only then, don't stop the clock on first downs. It's 40 seconds regardless, and in the case of unusual delay, stop the clock momentarily and reset the play clock.
3) If the automatic first down for DPI can't be brought back, change enforcement for DPI to be the full 15 yards, with no provision for half the distance, or the 2 yard line, whichever comes first. It removes the inequity of allowing the defense to commit DPI with relative impunity in certain situations. Twice in the last 2 years I've had B commit DPI on 4th and goal in the EZ, not lose all that many yards on the penalty, and stop A on the next play.
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Every year some kid does something stupid while the other team is attempting to take a knee. I don't know how to eliminate it, but I'm not a fan of the play either.
Reference the Ohio Gold Book . We adopted that a few years ago and haven't had any problems since.
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Reference the Ohio Gold Book . We adopted that a few years ago and haven't had any problems since.
After a quick google search I came up with this:
"Victory Formation Mechanics (VFM)
A. Definition: Winning team HC informs officials we are “going to take a knee”. Opponent is out
of team TO’s or tells Wing that we will not use them. Winning Team is ahead by 9 or more
points. If the score differential is 8 or less points R will tell the teams to “defend themselves”.
B. CREW: Officials pinch in close. R/U: Inform A & B that A will take a knee—nothing rough. QB
has protection once his team indicates he will take a knee. R: Emphatically inform QB he
MUST take a knee ASAP – no fakes. If he fakes & does not take a knee, it is an Unfair Act.
C. CREW: Ask winning team HC if his team will take a knee; score/time dictates this. If yes, Wing
assertively informs losing team HC. Inform all players loudly. Communication is important!!"
Is this what you are referring to?
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Some good suggestions. I like the kick OOB and basic spot for runs behind the LOS suggestions. Also would be good with allowing the QB to throw it away if outside the tackle box. Yes, it introduces some complexity, but worth it from a player safety point of view.
Also would allow the following:
1) Allow a spike from the shotgun. Removes a frankly pointless distinction. We already have the requirement for the spike to be immediate and without delay - same principle would apply regardless of shotgun vs hand-to-hand.
2) *IF* the 40 second play clock is approved (and I'm slightly in favor of not approving it), then and only then, don't stop the clock on first downs. It's 40 seconds regardless, and in the case of unusual delay, stop the clock momentarily and reset the play clock.
3) If the automatic first down for DPI can't be brought back, change enforcement for DPI to be the full 15 yards, with no provision for half the distance, or the 2 yard line, whichever comes first. It removes the inequity of allowing the defense to commit DPI with relative impunity in certain situations. Twice in the last 2 years I've had B commit DPI on 4th and goal in the EZ, not lose all that many yards on the penalty, and stop A on the next play.
(1) When the legal spike was put in back in 1995, a couple of concerns were : (a) QB would have a better view of open receivers from the shotgun, (b) a 'pop-up' snap could lead QB to spike to prevent sack. Those concerns still exist and support of rule change dampened a couple of years age when it was learned the NFL requires the QB to be under the snapper for the spike.
(2) I wish not to think of sad things ;D on the day of the Red Sox celebration parade :) aWaRd
(3) I would support bringing the AFD on DPI and it has been on the docket a couple of times since but failed. The feeling of some is if we reinstate AFD to DPI we should do same with LOD on OPI. A compromise could be adding AFD to INTENTIONAL forward pass interference - a call that is made as often as Haley's Comet passes but could protect the fairness of the game if the situation warranted.
.....Time to go home and watch the celebration parade aWaRd
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After a quick google search I came up with this:
"Victory Formation Mechanics (VFM)
A. Definition: Winning team HC informs officials we are “going to take a knee”. Opponent is out
of team TO’s or tells Wing that we will not use them. Winning Team is ahead by 9 or more
points. If the score differential is 8 or less points R will tell the teams to “defend themselves”.
B. CREW: Officials pinch in close. R/U: Inform A & B that A will take a knee—nothing rough. QB
has protection once his team indicates he will take a knee. R: Emphatically inform QB he
MUST take a knee ASAP – no fakes. If he fakes & does not take a knee, it is an Unfair Act.
C. CREW: Ask winning team HC if his team will take a knee; score/time dictates this. If yes, Wing
assertively informs losing team HC. Inform all players loudly. Communication is important!!"
Is this what you are referring to?
Yes, and coaches have all agreed. Often the losing coach will pull out his considered "troublemakers". If the game is within one score (TD+2), we remind the offense : "we are still playing football, be ready."
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I would support AFD on DPI, UNS, and personal fouls by the defense (RPS, UNR (IPC in NFHS), HCT, TGT, LTO (late hit out of bounds), etc.). This would remove the differences between NCAA and NFHS in that regard. I would also abolish illegal participation, because this penalty is infrequent, and is often caused by officiating errors (As an aside, how does NCAA adjudicate a player participating with his helmet off?).
I would be on board with the 12/3 (EBO does this anyway in their games) halftime rather than the 15/3 halftime, throw away outside the pocket being legal, no NZ after the ball leaves, etc. No visible play clock would not be an issue for 40 seconds if the BJ (or other official timing the play clock communicates that play clock starts, 25 seconds, 10 seconds, and the end of the play clock. This is how I and my partners on semi-pro games have communicated the play clock (semi-pro games use either college or NFL rules, and those rules include a 40-second play clock).
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I would support AFD on DPI, UNS, and personal fouls by the defense (RPS, UNR (IPC in NFHS), HCT, TGT, LTO (late hit out of bounds), etc.). This would remove the differences between NCAA and NFHS in that regard. I would also abolish illegal participation, because this penalty is infrequent, and is often caused by officiating errors (As an aside, how does NCAA adjudicate a player participating with his helmet off?).
I would be on board with the 12/3 (EBO does this anyway in their games) halftime rather than the 15/3 halftime, throw away outside the pocket being legal, no NZ after the ball leaves, etc. No visible play clock would not be an issue for 40 seconds if the BJ (or other official timing the play clock communicates that play clock starts, 25 seconds, 10 seconds, and the end of the play clock. This is how I and my partners on semi-pro games have communicated the play clock (semi-pro games use either college or NFL rules, and those rules include a 40-second play clock).
Personally, I think the NCAA and the NFL already have too many penalties against the D that are AFD. Not in favor of expanding them to NFHS.
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1. Allow some contact fouls to be called USC. These would apply to pushes, shoves, etc after the ball is dead. This would those penalties a little more teeth and allow them to count toward a disqualification.
2. Some fouls by A behind the LOS should be penalized from the previous spot.
3. Ban all blocks below the waist.
4. Here in TN, we are using the 40/25 second play clock. I would like to start the clock when the ball is set after out of bounds plays.
5. Make all face mask penalties 15 yards.
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That's why I'd limit it to the 15-yard penalties. NCAA does, anyway.
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Football is a (great) game involving intense physical contact, played by people between the ages of 8 and 60+, that depending on the Level, have dramatically different secondary objectives.
Considering the significant maturity, physical development, talent and skill differences, it seems both logical and rational to tailor the governing rules of play to better fit progressive levels.
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Not a rule change, but can we get an editorial clarification to the new rule about fouls under two minutes? Even after a full season, there are still an awful lot of officials who interpret this as "the offended team can start the clock on the ready if the clock would normally start on the snap." Those of us in the NFHS group on Facebook see this at least once a week, and this week alone there are three separate threads about it...
I'm definitely in favor of allowing contact USC fouls after the play is over, instead of having to enforce it as a personal foul. There's a difference between a kid who isn't paying attention and hits a kid late, and a kid shoving someone because he's tired of getting his butt handed to him and trying to start some garbage.
And I hope every year to see the rule changed from "7 on the line" to "4 or less in the backfield". If A only has 10 men on the field, they're already at a disadvantage. Throwing a flag for a 6-man line when there are only 10 kids on the field seems like we're punishing them for putting themselves at a disadvantage. And heck, if a team can have 6 on the line, 4 in the backfield, and still gain yards, then B should be ashamed of themselves anyway.
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I've brought this one up before with no luck, but I'm still hopeful.
Make it a foul to have more than 4 in the backfield rather than less than 7 on the line. When A operates with 6 on the line and 4 in the backfield, they're already at a disadvantage - why punish them twice? In prior years, I believe the rationale for not accepting this is "It doesn't help anyone except the officials who would rather count to 4 than to 7." Given the other changes that make our jobs more difficult, what's wrong with one that helps us out? hEaDbAnG
It's been on the final docket a couple of times but has failed to get a super (67%) majority. I have always been a strong supporter of it, as have many of the active officials that are state reps, but to no avail.
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Holding on A is 10 yd penalty from previous spot instead of spot of the foul.
The high majority feeling (including mine) is that the All-But-One principle if both fair and simple. The hold occurring in the backfield may have freed the QB sack or a runner's loss of yardage and deserves to remain a spot foul. A change would benefit the offense which, in the opinion of many, doesn't need any benefits.
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Personally, I think the NCAA and the NFL already have too many penalties against the D that are AFD. Not in favor of expanding them to NFHS.
Agree fully. At their levels alumni support and ticket sales are the prime objective. High scoring offenses help fuel that. At our level, safety, simplicity , and fair balance between offense & defense are the prime objectives. The roughing fouls (passer/kicker/holder/snapper) carry an awarded first down as they are contact with a defenseless player. Many feel if all PFs by B carried an AFD that it would dilute the severity of the roughing fouls.
I've been on the NFHS Rules Committee since 1992 and have learned that : "We should do it because the big boys do (NCAA & NFL) !!" is never a good reason for a rule change. I recall when the NCAA had the halo rule on punts. In was about to come to the floor for a final vote when a NCAA rep who attends our meetings asked to speak. He announced that the NCAA was about to remove the rule as coaches were playing games with it. WHOOPS...I guess we don't want that one!!! Many of us said. l
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I've been on the NFHS Rules Committee since 1992 and have learned that : "We should do it because the big boys do (NCAA & NFL) !!" is never a good reason for a rule change.
The reverse of that is: “Just because we don’t want to mirror the NCAA is never a good reason NOT to change a rule.” And yet that’s the perception many of us have about some of the RC members.
It boggles my mind that 33%+ of the RC would have a problem with the “4 backs” change, especially since (if we’re honest with ourselves) that’s how a majority of officials are counting anyway.
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It boggles my mind that 33%+ of the RC would have a problem with the “4 backs” change, especially since (if we’re honest with ourselves) that’s how a majority of officials are counting anyway.
+1 Bama
That's what I did when I was a wing official. If the R & U signaled that they had 11 on offense, I made sure there were no more than 4 in the backfield.
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I've been on the NFHS Rules Committee since 1992 and have learned that : "We should do it because the big boys do (NCAA & NFL) !!" is never a good reason for a rule change.
I completely disagree.
Players, coaches and fans all know the NCAA/NFL rules, because they watch them on TV. Fans don't have access to the NFHS rules. Players and coaches want to play, not study differences.
The referees look horrible to the players, coaches and fans when a rule in NFHS is properly enforced but looks completely wrong because of what they've seen in NCAA, NFL. Some games get out of control just for this reason.
For example, we had a game this year where a home team player was grabbed by his collar, pulled to the side, and he broke the tackle and ran 5 more yards. We didn't call the horse collar, correctly, which would have been a foul in NCAA/NFL, but not in NFHS. They punted shortly thereafter, where R muffed the ball at the 5 yard line, wild scramble for the ball and K recovered 2 yards deep in the end zone. During the fumble, just before the recovery, the BJ blew his whistle as the ball crossed the goal line. Right call in NFHS. To the fans it looked like we had an early whistle. Fans screamed at the refs for being idiots blowing the whistle too early. So, so far according to the fans in a few minutes time, we blew 2 calls. The first one, ironically, the NFHS is LESS concerned about safety, the other one is not a safety issue at all.
A little later, we had the home team's QB scramble around in the backfield looking to throw on a 3rd and 10, 2 deep receivers were knocked down. The QB was sacked on the play. We had nothing since there was no pass thrown. This is another where NFHS is LESS concerned about safety.
After that, the fans were rabid the entire game since we were obviously poor officials. It was caused by rule differences that don't need to be rule differences.
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I agree that the differences between the rules gives us grief. However, I disagree that we should write NFHS rules based on fan ignorance. IF anything, we should do a better job of communicating to the coaches, players, fans, and announcers. I have called intentional grounding 3 times this year where the QB threw the ball away outside the tackle box and in each case, all hell broke loose. That's not my fault. It's due to a lack of understanding of the rules of football. The sad thing is, the coaches are the worst ones. My opinion is that a football coach should have to take a rules test to qualify to teach, just like a math teacher has to take a profiency test to teach math...
Oh well, that's my rant for the day. Ya'll have a great night tonight..
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I agree that the differences between the rules gives us grief. However, I disagree that we should write NFHS rules based on fan ignorance. IF anything, we should do a better job of communicating to the coaches, players, fans, and announcers. I have called intentional grounding 3 times this year where the QB threw the ball away outside the tackle box and in each case, all HECK broke loose. That's not my fault. It's due to a lack of understanding of the rules of football. The sad thing is, the coaches are the worst ones. My opinion is that a football coach should have to take a rules test to qualify to teach, just like a math teacher has to take a profiency test to teach math...
Oh well, that's my rant for the day. Ya'll have a great night tonight..
Had a subvarsity game last night. Threw a flag for USC on B. A got half the distance to the goal, but now 3rd down. Coach didn't understand why it wasn't an automatic first. Kept yelling at me on the field while the team is trying to run a play. At half, I ran over there and told him the only penalties that were auto-first downs, especially on Thursdays and Fridays. He didn't like it, but he couldn't argue it.
Every year, officials have clinics and tests to ensure that they know the rules and can enforce them properly. That is a good thing.
If I had my druthers, I would require EVERY head coach to get with an official in their district and hold a mandatory rules clinic for the coaching staff. It might mitigate some of the flags on coaches as well as help them to communicate the rules to the players.
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If I had my druthers, I would require EVERY head coach to get with an official in their district and hold a mandatory rules clinic for the coaching staff. It might mitigate some of the flags on coaches as well as help them to communicate the rules to the players.
We tried this more than once. "If you hold it, they will come," does NOT apply to coaches and rules clinics.
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I completely disagree.
Players, coaches and fans all know the NCAA/NFL rules, because they watch them on TV. Fans don't have access to the NFHS rules. Players and coaches want to play, not study differences.
The referees look horrible to the players, coaches and fans when a rule in NFHS is properly enforced but looks completely wrong because of what they've seen in NCAA, NFL. Some games get out of control just for this reason.
For example, we had a game this year where a home team player was grabbed by his collar, pulled to the side, and he broke the tackle and ran 5 more yards. We didn't call the horse collar, correctly, which would have been a foul in NCAA/NFL, but not in NFHS. They punted shortly thereafter, where R muffed the ball at the 5 yard line, wild scramble for the ball and K recovered 2 yards deep in the end zone. During the fumble, just before the recovery, the BJ blew his whistle as the ball crossed the goal line. Right call in NFHS. To the fans it looked like we had an early whistle. Fans screamed at the refs for being idiots blowing the whistle too early. So, so far according to the fans in a few minutes time, we blew 2 calls. The first one, ironically, the NFHS is LESS concerned about safety, the other one is not a safety issue at all.
A little later, we had the home team's QB scramble around in the backfield looking to throw on a 3rd and 10, 2 deep receivers were knocked down. The QB was sacked on the play. We had nothing since there was no pass thrown. This is another where NFHS is LESS concerned about safety.
After that, the fans were rabid the entire game since we were obviously poor officials. It was caused by rule differences that don't need to be rule differences.
First off, sorry if sharing video links isn't allowed. Someone let me know and I'll immediately remove it. But I feel that this first play perfectly displays what you might be talking about (didn't see your play, of course, so maybe they were potential blockers still) and it's something that we never see called and I honestly didn't even know about for my first couple years because all the vets harped on "defense can make contact until the ball is thrown" which isn't technically correct, and I admittedly didn't dig deep enough into the book when I first started.
Anyways, it takes 2 or 3 minutes for him to go all the way through it and get his full explanation out but I think it's worth a watch on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ZdC9a9wSo
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Thanks for posting this video Brett. Thankfully, I had a great WH in my early years who educated me on this exact philosophy. Way too often we overlook the part about a receiver who is no longer a potential blocker..
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It's been on the final docket a couple of times but has failed to get a super (67%) majority. I have always been a strong supporter of it, as have many of the active officials that are state reps, but to no avail.
I'd like to go further and suggest we modify the eligibility requirements to being by number only along with the no more than 4 backs. Watching the NFL over the past few years I am unable to figure out how they determine eligibility by position as it seems every wide out is either on the line or a quarter of a step off the line. Heck most tackles line up deeper than the slot receivers...
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First off, sorry if sharing video links isn't allowed. Someone let me know and I'll immediately remove it. But I feel that this first play perfectly displays what you might be talking about (didn't see your play, of course, so maybe they were potential blockers still) and it's something that we never see called and I honestly didn't even know about for my first couple years because all the vets harped on "defense can make contact until the ball is thrown" which isn't technically correct, and I admittedly didn't dig deep enough into the book when I first started.
Anyways, it takes 2 or 3 minutes for him to go all the way through it and get his full explanation out but I think it's worth a watch on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ZdC9a9wSo
In our area, we've been instructed to officiate exactly as that first LJ did. Wait for the pass, then throw the flag. It's not a foul unless there is a pass thrown.
If the pass is never thrown, Rule 9-3d is never called. I agree with you, and I think it should be called. Maybe I should bring it up with our interpreter next year and see why we don't use 9-3d, or interpret it very differently.
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The reverse of that is: “Just because we don’t want to mirror the NCAA is never a good reason NOT to change a rule.” And yet that’s the perception many of us have about some of the RC members.
It boggles my mind that 33%+ of the RC would have a problem with the “4 backs” change, especially since (if we’re honest with ourselves) that’s how a majority of officials are counting anyway.
IFP over the LOS used to be determined by where it left the QBs hand while, in reality, we were gauging by his feet. The NFHS finally agreed to tweak the rule to that. Hopefully the 5 backs and not 6 linesman will become our barometer on this. IMHO, the ole' adage of : "Teddy Roosevelt was going to outlaw football if it didn't remove the flying wedge" is sorta' outdated.
A word about rule differences....I also work baseball ,where there are just as many differences between NFHS, NCAA & MLB. Baseball is a game where 90%+ is fair/foul, ball/strike, and out/safe. The differing codes are rarely noticed, outside of DH or not in MLB. Our sport is more "rulesy" and the differences become more apparent. Just as the NL & AL unable to settle on a DH, our different codes will always remain different. I recorded several sound bites entitled : "Before You Boo, There May Be A Difference In The Rule!" that a local sports radio station plays one of before each of their broadcast games. You guys could do the same. Speak at booster club meetings, and the like. Those of you that work other sports, think about it, there are probably many differences in your codes, too.
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Had this last night, Team B jumps the snap count and is called for encroachment, The fans are going ballistic he got back before the snap. While I am in agreement that he got back before the snap but tonight we are playing NFHS rules and its a foul for the violation of the neutral zone.
Not a rule change, but can we get an editorial clarification to the new rule about fouls under two minutes? Even after a full season, there are still an awful lot of officials who interpret this as "the offended team can start the clock on the ready if the clock would normally start on the snap." I agree with this I have not seen Officials that do this wrong, but I am seeing a lot of coaches that don't understand this rule.
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Such a good question!!!
1 - stop enforcing offensive holding penalties from the spot of the foul if they occurred behind the line of scrimmage! Some of these penalties end up being 15...17...or 19 yards! It’s absolutely not right and should be changed as soon as possible‼️
2 - if the offense makes a substitution then the defense should be given an opportunity to do the same.
3 - overtime should begin at the 20 yard line and a coin toss should happen only once (at the beginning of OT).
4 - defensive pass interferences should be a spot foul if they occurred within 15 yards of the LOS.
5 - defense should be allowed to “get back” to their side of the ball if they happened to cross the neural zone (like NCAA).
6 - an extra line should be placed on the sidelines (between the 25 yard lines) at one yard deeper than the current “no go zone” to emphasize where players/coaches are allowed vs not allowed. More room is needed in high school as opposed to other levels and I think everyone who officiated knows exactly what I mean. There needs to be an “officials only” area, which we currently have; a “coaches only” area, which could be 1 to 2 yards further; followed by the general area where anyone is allowed. High School officials simply need more help with the sidelines.
7 - The QB should be allowed to “throw it away” as long as he is outside the tackle box and the ball crosses the LOS.
8 - get rid of the 5 yd face mask penalty!
9 - The clock should be restarted once the ball is set after a player is tackled out of bounds and there is more than TWO minutes left on the clock (2nd and 4th quarters)!
10 - coaches should be required to attend at least four association meetings throughout the season to discuss rules and get to know area officials.
11 - extra point attempts should be live plays that allow the defense to return fumbles/interceptions for 2 points.
12 - free kicks, punts, and extra point attempts (yes...all three types of kicks) should NOT be blown dead if the ball crosses the goal line. Stop punishing the return team just because the opposing team has a good kicker! Also...maybe bring the spot up to the 25 instead of the 20 following touchbacks?!
13 - consider adding an “uncatchable” option to be considered for pass interference penalties.
14 - “fourth down fumble rule” needs to be adopted! Only the player who last had possession can recover a “forward fumble” on fourth down.
15 - give officials the authority to send a player to the sidelines for four consecutive plays (a “cool down” rule). This would be a wise rule and could definitely help officials keep control of emotional players/situations.
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I completely disagree.
Players, coaches and fans all know the NCAA/NFL rules, because they watch them on TV. Fans don't have access to the NFHS rules. Players and coaches want to play, not study differences.
The referees look horrible to the players, coaches and fans when a rule in NFHS is properly enforced but looks completely wrong because of what they've seen in NCAA, NFL. Some games get out of control just for this reason.
For example, we had a game this year where a home team player was grabbed by his collar, pulled to the side, and he broke the tackle and ran 5 more yards. We didn't call the horse collar, correctly, which would have been a foul in NCAA/NFL, but not in NFHS. They punted shortly thereafter, where R muffed the ball at the 5 yard line, wild scramble for the ball and K recovered 2 yards deep in the end zone. During the fumble, just before the recovery, the BJ blew his whistle as the ball crossed the goal line. Right call in NFHS. To the fans it looked like we had an early whistle. Fans screamed at the refs for being idiots blowing the whistle too early. So, so far according to the fans in a few minutes time, we blew 2 calls. The first one, ironically, the NFHS is LESS concerned about safety, the other one is not a safety issue at all.
A little later, we had the home team's QB scramble around in the backfield looking to throw on a 3rd and 10, 2 deep receivers were knocked down. The QB was sacked on the play. We had nothing since there was no pass thrown. This is another where NFHS is LESS concerned about safety.
After that, the fans were rabid the entire game since we were obviously poor officials. It was caused by rule differences that don't need to be rule differences.
If you're doing this to "look good" to Coaches, players and fans, you might rethink it. Rules designed for GROWN MEN, and multi million dollar industries DON'T automatically apply to children and teenagers.
Part of your job is to explain decisions to Coaches and/or players. THEY need to accept what YOU say, whether they like, or agree, with you and return the respect you show with your explanation. How much emotional BS you want to allow in that exchange is entirely UP TO YOU. Either YOU command respect, or you don''t, and only YOU can control how much BS you're willing to listen to and ACCEPT.
As for fans, once they've paid admission they can behave as ignorantly as they choose. If you have yet to learn to TOTALLY IGNORE them, you need to develop that SKILL, or you could try convincing them to stop watching TV and listening to sports casters.
Odds are decidedly against both sides of ANY field from equally praising your work, that's part of the territory. The only compliments that matter, are those from your crew mates.
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My $0.02
Such a good question!!!
1 - stop enforcing offensive holding penalties from the spot of the foul if they occurred behind the line of scrimmage! Some of these penalties end up being 15...17...or 19 yards! It’s absolutely not right and should be changed as soon as possible‼️ Would like but if it adds too much complexity, I see why they're not going to do so.
2 - if the offense makes a substitution then the defense should be given an opportunity to do the same. No. This would be a disaster to consistently enforce among the range of high school officials, esp in 4 man crews
3 - overtime should begin at the 20 yard line and a coin toss should happen only once (at the beginning of OT). This is by state adoption. Ohio's already does start at the 20
4 - defensive pass interferences should be a spot foul if they occurred within 15 yards of the LOS. Sure, but no big deal if not. I like the NCAA rule, esp in red zone - walk till you hit the spot, 15 yds or the 2 yd line, whichever comes first
5 - defense should be allowed to “get back” to their side of the ball if they happened to cross the neural zone (like NCAA). Nah, it's easier this way and safer, no free plays needed. Don't jump if you don't want a penalty.
6 - an extra line should be placed on the sidelines (between the 25 yard lines) at one yard deeper than the current “no go zone” to emphasize where players/coaches are allowed vs not allowed. More room is needed in high school as opposed to other levels and I think everyone who officiated knows exactly what I mean. There needs to be an “officials only” area, which we currently have; a “coaches only” area, which could be 1 to 2 yards further; followed by the general area where anyone is allowed. High School officials simply need more help with the sidelines. Uh....non-problem. Just enforce the restricted area and let the coaches handle their own people.
7 - The QB should be allowed to “throw it away” as long as he is outside the tackle box and the ball crosses the LOS. Fine with it, but not worth the complexity
8 - get rid of the 5 yd face mask penalty! agreed
9 - The clock should be restarted once the ball is set after a player is tackled out of bounds and there is more than TWO minutes left on the clock (2nd and 4th quarters)! I guess, no strong opinion
10 - coaches should be required to attend at least four association meetings throughout the season to discuss rules and get to know area officials. This is not within the authority or purview of the NFHS rules committee, address this with your state. And four meetings? Quixotic
11 - extra point attempts should be live plays that allow the defense to return fumbles/interceptions for 2 points. Absolutely not, no need to put high school kids into these chaotic plays that would be rare in any case
12 - free kicks, punts, and extra point attempts (yes...all three types of kicks) should NOT be blown dead if the ball crosses the goal line. Stop punishing the return team just because the opposing team has a good kicker! Also...maybe bring the spot up to the 25 instead of the 20 following touchbacks?! No, for similar reasons. But perfectly fine with 25 yd line
13 - consider adding an “uncatchable” option to be considered for pass interference penalties. Not worth the added complexity
14 - “fourth down fumble rule” needs to be adopted! Only the player who last had possession can recover a “forward fumble” on fourth down. Why? Again, absolutely not worth the complexity. Solution in search of problem. Why does HS need to adopt a rule put in place because Ken Stabler and Dave Casper got a TD in the 1970's??
15 - give officials the authority to send a player to the sidelines for four consecutive plays (a “cool down” rule). This would be a wise rule and could definitely help officials keep control of emotional players/situations. This is coaches' responsibility. Send them out if you can (we can in our state) but if coach says they're ready to play, they're ready to play. If they do it again, throw the flag
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I completely disagree.
Players, coaches and fans all know the NCAA/NFL rules, because they watch them on TV. Fans don't have access to the NFHS rules. Players and coaches want to play, not study differences.
The referees look horrible to the players, coaches and fans when a rule in NFHS is properly enforced but looks completely wrong because of what they've seen in NCAA, NFL. Some games get out of control just for this reason.
For example, we had a game this year where a home team player was grabbed by his collar, pulled to the side, and he broke the tackle and ran 5 more yards. We didn't call the horse collar, correctly, which would have been a foul in NCAA/NFL, but not in NFHS. They punted shortly thereafter, where R muffed the ball at the 5 yard line, wild scramble for the ball and K recovered 2 yards deep in the end zone. During the fumble, just before the recovery, the BJ blew his whistle as the ball crossed the goal line. Right call in NFHS. To the fans it looked like we had an early whistle. Fans screamed at the refs for being idiots blowing the whistle too early. So, so far according to the fans in a few minutes time, we blew 2 calls. The first one, ironically, the NFHS is LESS concerned about safety, the other one is not a safety issue at all.
A little later, we had the home team's QB scramble around in the backfield looking to throw on a 3rd and 10, 2 deep receivers were knocked down. The QB was sacked on the play. We had nothing since there was no pass thrown. This is another where NFHS is LESS concerned about safety.
After that, the fans were rabid the entire game since we were obviously poor officials. It was caused by rule differences that don't need to be rule differences.
Pontius Pilate gave the fans a say once... and they've been wrong ever since.
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The only compliments that matter, are those from your crew mates.
If the losing coach tells you that you did a good job, you can believe that. It’s rare, but it happens.
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Pontius Pilate gave the fans a say once... and they've been wrong ever since.
How true.
I don't think fans and probably coaches want to understand the high school rules and we can not fix that.
As a friend of mine said, "you can't fix stupid".
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The high majority feeling (including mine) is that the All-But-One principle if both fair and simple. The hold occurring in the backfield may have freed the QB sack or a runner's loss of yardage and deserves to remain a spot foul. A change would benefit the offense which, in the opinion of many, doesn't need any benefits.
I understand your reasoning, but a 10 year penalty is fairly significant. It also simplifies penalty administration, along with getting NFHS more in line with NCAA rules. I usually don't care if our rules are more in line with NCAA, but in this case I think they have it right.
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The reverse of that is: “Just because we don’t want to mirror the NCAA is never a good reason NOT to change a rule.” And yet that’s the perception many of us have about some of the RC members.
It boggles my mind that 33%+ of the RC would have a problem with the “4 backs” change, especially since (if we’re honest with ourselves) that’s how a majority of officials are counting anyway.
Agree fully, 'Bama, that just because NCAA does it is not a reason not to. Many of our rule changes over the years have had NCAA roots. Our tack-on rule that passed this year is one. Others of note include : PSK, horsecollar, targeting, blocking in the back, removing LOD from OPI (cost us AFD on DPI, though), QB spike, offsetting DBPF/USC fouls..etc. I've supported counting 5 backs in lieu of 6 linesman, as have most active officials on the committee, but regrettably not enough.
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I understand your reasoning, but a 10 year penalty is fairly significant. It also simplifies penalty administration, along with getting NFHS more in line with NCAA rules. I usually don't care if our rules are more in line with NCAA, but in this case I think they have it right.
This has been on the docket several times without success. Outside of the considered fairness of the All-But-One, I've heard the following two negative points:
(1)Exceptions and complexity are not popular with the NFHS. Several years ago we were told that we had 16 exceptions in our Rule 10 (penalty enforcement) while NCAA had +70. Not only would this be an exception to the All-But-One but we would need an exception to that exception to cover fouls such as IG or fouls occurring in the EZ.
(2) While we could look at a holding call occurring 8 yards behind the LOS as an 18 yard penalty, we could also look at a 90 yard TD kick return with a hold called at R's 25 as an 85 yard penalty. In both situations, the hold may have sprung the runner loose.
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I understand your reasoning, but a 10 year penalty is fairly significant. It also simplifies penalty administration, along with getting NFHS more in line with NCAA rules. I usually don't care if our rules are more in line with NCAA, but in this case I think they have it right.
I wholeheartedly agree with Ralph's summation (aside from baseball). Making ALL fouls, behind the line as previous spot enforcement seems like an INVITATION to foul, whenever the defense has forced the offense to retreat 10 yards or more. Why not foul, the worst that will happen is losing the right to repeat the down, by B declining the penalty.
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somebody suggested in my weekly meeting that DPI in the EZ should be an automatic first down. Sounded like a good idea to me. It takes away the defense's advantage of trading a small yardage penalty for preventing a TD, especially on 4th down
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I wholeheartedly agree with Ralph's summation (aside from baseball). Making ALL fouls, behind the line as previous spot enforcement seems like an INVITATION to foul, whenever the defense has forced the offense to retreat 10 yards or more. Why not foul, the worst that will happen is losing the right to repeat the down, by B declining the penalty.
FTR, I agree with Al and Ralph here. The fact that the ball and the foul are behind the LOS is because of the offense. No sense in letting them off the hook.
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I would be strongly for an auto first down for DPI where the interference occurs in B’s endzone.
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I would love to see a spot foul enforcement in this case. Put it at the 1.
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Question for Ralph - In your estimation what do you think will be the next rule change or two that the NF will actually put in place?
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I would love to see a spot foul enforcement in this case. Put it at the 1.
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I don't like spot foul for DPI. It assumes the receiver is going to catch it. In high school, that's a big assumption.
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I don't like spot foul for DPI. It assumes the receiver is going to catch it. In high school, that's a big assumption.
I couldn’t quite put my finger on why I didn’t like putting the ball at the 1 but you nailed it. Give the offense yards and a first down (IMO) and move on.
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I get all that, but the spot foul sure would take away the incentive to interfere. one thing about it - if the defender does interfere, it's almost a certainty A won't catch it. A spot foul may prevent B's coach from teaching his players to foul...
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In that case, just adopt the NCAA rule on DPI. Spot, 15, or 2 makes sense, because the ball is at the spot of the foul if the pass was not a long one, 15 yards would be a major deterrent on long passes, because that would give A a free series (the automatic 1st down provision addresses those cases where 15 yards would not affect the next series, whether on 2nd and 16+, 3rd and 16+, or inside the 30 yard line, where half the distance enforcement reduces the possible distance), and the 2 yard line provides a consistent spot for fouls on passes near the goal line (specifically, a pass when the previous spot is between the B17 and B2 inclusive, with a foul on or inside the B2). If spot, 15, or 2 is a simple enough mnemonic for new NCAA officials, NFHS officials would also be able to pick up on it.
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I don't like spot foul for DPI. It assumes the receiver is going to catch it. In high school, that's a big assumption.
In high school, assuming a pass is always catchable is a big assumption. Assuming a catchable pass will be caught will even be a bigger one!!
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Question for Ralph - In your estimation what do you think will be the next rule change or two that the NF will actually put in place?
I HOPE....
Worry about 5 in backfield, not 6 on the line.
Put some sort of AFD for DPI occurring in goal to go situations.
I HOPE NOT.....
Adopting the 40" play clock.
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Put some sort of AFD for DPI occurring in goal to go situations.
More than that. How about any DPI in the EZ is an AFD?
I HOPE NOT.....
Adopting the 40" play clock.
Me too. We don't work with a 7 or 8 man crew, chain crews that can run, and ball boys that are consistently where they need to be.
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I HOPE....
Worry about 5 in backfield, not 6 on the line.
Put some sort of AFD for DPI occurring in goal to go situations.
I HOPE NOT.....
Adopting the 40" play clock.
I agree about the first two but I'm totally in favor of the 40" play clock. Absolutely love it here in Colorado and dread the old play clock when I do games in Wyoming. The 40" has made our crew pretty efficient and we actually get comments about that from the Wyoming coaches who aren't used to efficiency apparently (or can't remember it).
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That brings up an interesting question. How does the 40 increase your efficiency when running a 25 in Wyoming? Also, can those principles be applied in states running the 25 to such a degree that the 40 is not needed?
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That brings up an interesting question. How does the 40 increase your efficiency when running a 25 in Wyoming? Also, can those principles be applied in states running the 25 to such a degree that the 40 is not needed?
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I think because the 40 starts right after the previous play is dead most of the time we naturally move quicker in getting the ball spotted in order to give the offense as much of the play clock as possible. Before the 40 second clock I definitely had worked with crews that took a bit more time to spot the ball and others that moved quicker. One of the big advantages of the 40 is that it leads to greater consistency between crews. I wouldn't say that the 40 is absolutely needed but it does make for smoother games (as a side note, I was originally very against the 40 but came to love it).
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40 = no wait time from previous play, hence why wing spotting ball declares the ball dead by raising his hand when marking the forward progress spot. With the 25 second play clock, since the play cannot start until the R blows the ready-for-play whistle, the pace will be inherently inconsistent, because different Rs will have different paces.
While the ball rarely is snapped instantly after being available, allowing a team to put the ball in play sooner (or wait from the time the ball is spotted until ~10 seconds remain on the play clock, for a longer period of time, might reduce the amount of kneel downs used (a kneel with a 25 second play clock might use up ~27 seconds per kneeldown, while a kneel with a 40-second play clock can use ~41 seconds. 3 kneel downs (assuming no timeouts) can consume 123 seconds (2:03) vs 81 seconds (1:21) of game time, a difference of 42 seconds that might not need to be played) or reduce the amount of knees taken. The R would only blow the RFP whistle when needed to restart the game clock, or for special situations (start of series, start of period, penalty administration, untimed downs, after timeouts, etc.).
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That brings up an interesting question. How does the 40 increase your efficiency when running a 25 in Wyoming? Also, can those principles be applied in states running the 25 to such a degree that the 40 is not needed?
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This past season we took the POEs in both the NFHS Rules Book and Officials' Manual seriously. Stressing pace of game and realizing it takes about a month to develop a habit - both good & bad - we made the following resolutions :
(1) During the first half of our games in the first month, we would focus on our pace of game. Whoever was facing the game clock - R or BJ - would monitor.
(2) As soon as the ball became dead, the "clockwatcher" would mentally record if the ball could then be spotted within 10".
(3) Once the ball was spotted, he would then mentally record if the RFP was sounded within 5".
(4) At halftime, we would discuss our adaption to the 10"/5" goal.
(5) During the second half, we would rely on the hopeful habit that was developing during the first half.
Results : Everyone seemed to move a little quicker as that had became their "habit". Rarely was there a delay in RFP within 5" of spotting the ball. Without 7 man crews and attentive ball boys, the 10" goal appeared to be achieved other then the long incomplete passes/ ball going OOB/ need to change the ball. The coaches didn't feel there was a problem before. Hope this helps those of you who share my feelings.