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National Football League / Re: IW in Wild Card Game...
« Last post by RMR on Today at 04:20:42 PM »
On the replay you can see the LJ putting the whistle in his mouth.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Force Question
« Last post by Derek Teigen on Today at 03:57:20 PM »
8-5-2b...It is a safety when a player who is in his end zone, forces a loose ball from the field of play across his goal line by his fumble provided the ball becomes dead there in his teams possession.

Don't really like the result, but, by rule, the result of the play is a safety.

how can a player who is in his own end zone force a loose ball from the field of play across his own goal line?   
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Force Question
« Last post by KWH on Today at 03:47:05 PM »
8-5-2b...It is a safety when a player who is in his end zone, forces a loose ball from the field of play across his goal line by his fumble provided the ball becomes dead there in his teams possession.

Don't really like the result, but, by rule, the result of the play is a safety.
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Is this legal in NFHS???
« Last post by KWH on Today at 03:31:05 PM »
I don't believe that faking the injury rises to the level of "travesty."

The rules do not attempt to list all possible forms of unsportsmanlike conduct for which might be penalized,
Instead all unsportsmanlike conduct acts are prohibited. Game official are instructed to penalize these types of unsportsmanlike conduct consistently and without hesitating.
Faking an injury to deceive your opponent into believe the snap is not imminent,
is unsporting and indeed rises to the level of making a travesty of the game!
To find supporting  wording from the NFHS, look no further than the "COMMENT" found in CASEBOOK Play 9.9.1 SITUATION B
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Force Question
« Last post by Derek Teigen on Today at 02:38:59 PM »
have been reading and re-reading this thread with interest. 

5-2-a.  "It is a safety when:  A runner carries the ball from the field of play to or across his own goal line and it becomes dead there in his team's possession"  Think Jim Marshall recovering  a fumble and running the wrong way and upon crossing his own goal line he tosses the ball into the stands or player from team A gets tackled and downed with the ball in their possession in their own end zone.

5-2-b.  "It is a safety when: A player who is either in the field of play or in his own end zone, forces a loose ball from the field of play to or across his own goal line by his kick, pass, fumble, snap or by a new force to a grounded loose ball with his muff or bat or illegal kick (when the penalty is declined), provided the ball becomes dead there in his team's possession (including when the ball is declared dead with no player in possession), or the ball is out of bounds when it becomes dead on or behind their own goal line"

it is interesting that  5-2-a states A RUNNER but 5-2-b states A PLAYER.  I take it to mean that in 5-2-b 'A Player' is one of the 22 team members who are on the field at the time of the play.  So in the case play provided did any of the 'players' force a loose ball from the field of play to or across his own goal line?

No they did not.  A "player' forced a ball to or across his opponents goal line but not his own.

I'm thinking therefore it is a touchback because it cannot be a safety.
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I value your opinions on these possible rule changes and often use some of your suggestions/arguments/feelings in deciding my AYUH or 'SPECT NOT.

(1) Team boxes could be extended for both teams (state's rights).
(2) Any official -not just R - can ask for a new ball.
(3) jersey #0 is OK.
(4) Sweatbands can be worn anywhere.
(5) Play cards can be worn anywhere.
(6) Team can burn TO to keep player with missing equipment in.
(7) Chop block = above & below waist ...not knee.
(8) Backward pass thrown OOB = clock starts on RFP
(9) Foul committed W/I last 2 min.= choice of starting on snap if penalty declined.
(10) Accepted penalty W/I last 2 min. = choice of 40" play clock.
(11) When B/R fouls = 40" play clock.
(12) A/K gives B/R fair opportunity to match the substitution if in hurry up/no huddle.
(13) On scrimmage kick formation, no R player over the snapper.
(14) Legal to dump pass if outside of FBZ & pass goes over the LOS.
(15) DPI = Auto first down.
(16) A holds behind LOS = previous spot.
(17) No more 5 yard face mask.
(18) More protection for pass receiver under 'defenseless player'.
(19) All A fouls except IFP or in A's end zone behind LOS = Previous Spot.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

Thanks  you for your responses and suggestions. Not all responded to all the questions and I also poled 4 veteran Maine officials and a veteran NCAA ref, s not all 19 questions have the same number of responses.

(1) 11-10
(2) 18-2
(3) 19-3
(4) 10-14
(5) 11-13
(6) 13-10
(7) 17-7
(8) 11-13
(9) 10-14
(10)6-18
(11)4-20
(12)5-19
(13)11-12
(14) 6-18
(15)21-3
(16)12-12
(17)13-11
(18) 5-19
(19) 9-15

Thanks again for taking time to share your thoughts and opinions. Our meeting begins this Sunday and lasts until Tuesday . I'll will bring this with me and often your responses, both pro and con, when debating.

 ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk ^talk
(52 voting members)

                                                                       tiphat:
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Hopefully/thankfully during the NFHS season, I don't have many Fri nights or Sat. afternoons to watch NCAA games.  As we often discuss, differences between NCAA and NFHS regarding specific rule applications I hadn't been thinking more about the impact of NFL official's configurations as might apply to NFHS.  Of course the major difference is 8 man crews vs 5, 6 or (rare) 7 man crews, but player's capabilities between NFL & NFHS is an even greater issue. 

Are you suggesting this whole issue about relocating the Umpire for NFHS level games, in light of our unfortunate decline is available personnel, may only amount to " Much ado, about nothing."?

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National Federation Discussion / Re: Is this legal in NFHS???
« Last post by HLinNC on Today at 11:48:15 AM »
According to the WAVY-TV station video and article, the score stood.  It put white up 21-7.  They won 35-7.

I have merged the sideline video from the OP with two media clips I located online.

https://youtu.be/rg5mtUwKfv0
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War Stories / Re: Best officiating "comebackers..."
« Last post by Etref on Today at 11:33:52 AM »
Working a wing in a high school game. Coach behind me is snippy from the start. He gets louder and louder as the game progresses.  R had a hold (takedown almost) and the coach lost it calling him a “gray haired SON OF A GUN” I flagged it and we marched another 15 towards his goal line. This put the ball about the 23-24 yard line. He is still behind me mouthing. I never looked back, just said “ you are inside the 25 aren’t you coach?)

His priceless reply was “ well yeah, I’m stupid but not crazy”
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National Federation Discussion / Re: Is this legal in NFHS???
« Last post by NVFOA_Ump on Today at 11:14:59 AM »
This was a Virginia state semi-final so one can surmise that the officials assigned were better than average.  They didn't catch it prior to the snap, hence my assertion that the vast majority would not either.

So this TD was allowed to stand?   ???  Or did they call IP after the play ended and replay the down?
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