Author Topic: Football Free kick formation  (Read 35672 times)

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Offline mantle

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Football Free kick formation
« on: July 29, 2014, 11:16:22 PM »
Still having a little problem with the new procedures on the kickoff. Rule 6, Section 1, Article 3. I quote "After the ball is marked ready for play, and until the ball is kicked, K must meet the following formation requirements:" I understand the requirements but can K correct any mistakes before the ball is kicked? Example - 3 players on one side after RFP, player touching the 35 yard line on his run up for the kickoff (not the kicker) or any other procedure prior to the actual kick. In all of these examples the kicking team meets the requirements at the actual kick of the ball.

Offline COLOUMP

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 01:06:20 AM »
That question came up in our recent clinic. Colorado's rules interpreter reminded everyone of the importance of preventive officiating, which made a lot of sense. We were encouraged to have the BJ remind the kicker of the restrictions before handing him the ball, and to encourage him to make sure his teammates are in immediate compliance. When the kicker conveys understanding, hand him the ball and then move into position and signal to R that his zone is ready for RFP. It may take a few times before the new rule is second nature to the athletes, but this brief reminder should help them catch on quickly. It should also help to minimize flags during the beginning of the season.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 07:23:02 AM »
Technically, you have fouls in both cases, which is why these are such poorly written rules.  But as COLOUMP, use some common sense, and fix these things before they become problems.  The only time you should have a formation foul on a kickoff is if the team shifts after the RFP.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 09:10:46 AM »
IMHO, for years we used to have the official at R's line remind them that : "You guys need 5 players between the 45 and 50" and I see this as little difference. 3 states experimented with this last year and one (Iowa) for the last three with few problems reported.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 09:29:13 AM »
At our state clinic last night, we were instructed to hold the RFP until K is properly in formation, to be proactive in encouraging in K to get into proper formation, and to flag DOG if they abuse it.  If the identified kicker, who is the only one who can be on or beyond the five yard boundary, lines up there, he is locked in as THE kicker.

Jim D.

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 10:44:00 AM »
In Missouri, we are instructed to not worry about the "From the RFP" part of the rules.  Teams can remain at the sideline until the RFP and come out, or be is a huddle and then come out.  Either one will be allowed.  As long as they don't try to use either method to get a running start, we're just told to worry that they are legal at the time of the kick.  Shifts, lining up wrong, etc. can be corrected.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 10:59:57 AM »
In Missouri, we are instructed to not worry about the "From the RFP" part of the rules.  Teams can remain at the sideline until the RFP and come out, or be is a huddle and then come out.  Either one will be allowed.  As long as they don't try to use either method to get a running start, we're just told to worry that they are legal at the time of the kick.  Shifts, lining up wrong, etc. can be corrected.
Missouri making up their own rules this year?  :sTiR:
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline theunofficialofficial

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 11:50:39 AM »
At our state clinic last night, we were instructed to hold the RFP until K is properly in formation, to be proactive in encouraging in K to get into proper formation, and to flag DOG if they abuse it.  If the identified kicker, who is the only one who can be on or beyond the five yard boundary, lines up there, he is locked in as THE kicker.

This is how we are being instructed in SoCal as well. Don't signal to R for RFP until BJ get 11 players on the field, all within the 5 yrd box (except kicker if so declared). Get to your spot and be ready to officiate - very important. And then give the signal. Just need to watch for motion and make sure that when the ball is kicked we still have 4x4 and any shifts players don't leave the box.

We also watched some preliminary video of a game played under the new rules and it really took the steam out of K. Look for more run backs, which could mean more blocks in the back and low blocks, or touch backs. I will be curious to see how long this rule is in effect as it really changes the game.

Jim D.

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 03:21:06 PM »
Missouri making up their own rules this year?  :sTiR:

They see at as a more reasonable interpretation of the new rule.

How are you guys going to handle a team that's huddling on the side line?  Since the RFP hasn't sounded, a delay of game will be akward since 3-6-2 calls for delay after "Failure to snap or free kick within 25 seconds after the ball is marked ready for play."



Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2014, 03:34:27 PM »
They see at as a more reasonable interpretation of the new rule.

How are you guys going to handle a team that's huddling on the side line?  Since the RFP hasn't sounded, a delay of game will be akward since 3-6-2 calls for delay after "Failure to snap or free kick within 25 seconds after the ball is marked ready for play."

3-6-2f:

ART. 2 . . . Action or inaction which prevents promptness in putting the ball in
play is delay of game. This includes:

f. Any other conduct which unduly prolongs the game.

While I don't mind the Missouri "interpretation", I do think it enters the realm of "new rules"!

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2014, 06:25:09 PM »
Maybe we'll all be lucky, and that small percentage of people who insist on trying to impress everyone with how clever they are, won't go out of their way with nit-picking options to punch holes in this revision.  Hope springs eternal.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 07:32:01 PM »
They see at as a more reasonable interpretation of the new rule.

"Reasonable interpretation" ???  LOL 

Really now! How about "Blatant disregard?"
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 07:58:02 PM »
"Reasonable interpretation" ???  LOL 

Really now! How about "Blatant disregard?"

OK, "blatantly disregarding" a badly written rule is an act of civil disobedience!

Offline VALJ

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 07:22:49 AM »
OK, "blatantly disregarding" a badly written rule is an act of civil disobedience!

FIGHT THE POWER!!!   ;D

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 07:48:08 AM »
OK, "blatantly disregarding" a badly written rule is an act of civil disobedience!
There are a lot of badly written rules. There are a lot of badly written laws, too. So it's OK to choose which ones we want to follow and which ones we don't?
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Jim D.

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 08:55:44 AM »
There are a lot of badly written rules. There are a lot of badly written laws, too. So it's OK to choose which ones we want to follow and which ones we don't?

My goodness, we do that all the time.  Show me in the rule book where it says it's legal to hold away from the ball.  It's not - a hold away from the ball is a foul that we chose not to call because we have decided it's better deal with it in a different way.

Since this is a brand new rule, I think the state realizes the NF may tweak it as the year goes on.  That often happens with new rules so I think their interpretation is reasonable given the circumstances.

ALStripes17

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Re: Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 12:24:19 PM »
My goodness, we do that all the time.  Show me in the rule book where it says it's legal to hold away from the ball.  It's not - a hold away from the ball is a foul that we chose not to call because we have decided it's better deal with it in a different way.

Since this is a brand new rule, I think the state realizes the NF may tweak it as the year goes on.  That often happens with new rules so I think their interpretation is reasonable given the circumstances.
It's not an interpretation.  It is a 'not seeing it happen,' as we do for holds away from the play.

Not saying I agree with it, just offering justified wording for your case.  If that's how MO wants to do it, more power to them if they have to answer to NFHS ... I've heard of many local associations that adopt their own versions of 'Don't see this in your games'

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 12:26:34 PM »
Since this is a brand new rule, I think the state realizes the NF may tweak it as the year goes on.  That often happens with new rules so I think their interpretation is reasonable given the circumstances.
I have been assured by three different people involved with the rules that it WILL be tweaked in January, but not before.

It HAS to be tweaked.  The rule currently requires at least 4 players on either side of the kicker.  Until toe meets leather, there is no kicker.  How can we have 4 on either side of something that by rule doesn't exist?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 01:25:17 PM »
Quote
How can we have 4 on either side of something that by rule doesn't exist?

Ah, the Law of Unintended Consequences.
Oh how I pine for the heady days of the Horsecollar tackle.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2014, 02:14:19 PM »
I have been assured by three different people involved with the rules that it WILL be tweaked in January, but not before.

It HAS to be tweaked.  The rule currently requires at least 4 players on either side of the kicker.  Until toe meets leather, there is no kicker.  How can we have 4 on either side of something that by rule doesn't exist?
I've been told more than once the proposal that came to the floor from committee said "...on either side of the ball." If that's the case, somebody changed it after the vote, and changing the word "kicker" to "ball" is the tweak we will likely see.

Meanwhile, I've also been told the Missouri folks who come to play in Arkansas and Tennessee this season (and probably the other border states) need to be aware the rule will be enforced as presently written.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 02:17:14 PM by Rulesman »
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline Magician

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2014, 11:13:36 PM »
It's not an interpretation.  It is a 'not seeing it happen,' as we do for holds away from the play.

Not saying I agree with it, just offering justified wording for your case.  If that's how MO wants to do it, more power to them if they have to answer to NFHS ... I've heard of many local associations that adopt their own versions of 'Don't see this in your games'
I've never heard the back side hold referred to as "not seeing it happen."  We often talk about making it a talk to so they are aware you saw them.  It goes to the philosophy of advantage/disadvantage and applying the spirit of the rule.  It helps with game management and keeping things flowing.

The Missouri interpretation follows the intent and spirit of this rule, especially since the approved version did have the word "ball" rather than "kicker".  There is no advantage gained if 3 guys are next to the kicker when they are set.  It matters where they are when the ball is kicked.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 04:10:46 AM »
I'm pretty sure Ralph told us that the original proposal said "kicker, not "ball".  Obviously, "ball" makes more sense, but this was not fully vetted from the start.

As far as MO having to "answer" to the NFHS, they don't have to answer to anyone.  Each state is free to adopt their own rules, and is responsible for their own interpretations.

Offline FBUmp

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2014, 02:02:13 PM »
As far as MO having to "answer" to the NFHS, they don't have to answer to anyone.  Each state is free to adopt their own rules, and is responsible for their own interpretations.

100% correct!

ALStripes17

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Re: Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2014, 03:04:25 PM »
I'm pretty sure Ralph told us that the original proposal said "kicker, not "ball".  Obviously, "ball" makes more sense, but this was not fully vetted from the start.

As far as MO having to "answer" to the NFHS, they don't have to answer to anyone.  Each state is free to adopt their own rules, and is responsible for their own interpretations.
I'm led to believe that if a state has representation on the rules committee, they are to follow the playing rules by "all material aspects."  I am not sure if MO has that representation; however, I never said the NFHS was going to call them either.

Not a major deal because we all understand (in spirit) why the new rules are there; however, I don't see how blatantly disregarding the rules as written is helping the matter.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Football Free kick formation
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 04:23:52 PM »
Missouri's representative is Harvey Richards.
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi