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Offline Derek Teigen

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Illegal Touching:
« on: December 28, 2018, 10:54:03 AM »
WAs watching the Quick Lane Bowl between Georgia Tech and Minnesota and there was a punt by GT.  The Minnesota Player was going to catch it but it hit the GT player in the back of the helmet and bounced back 10-15 yards.  Recovered by GT.  The ball was given to Minnesota with the official signaling illegal touching.  The announcers were confused but I think this was a 10 yard penalty because the ball was moved beyond where the first/illegal touching occurred. 

In high School rules, could this have been kick catching intereference?  K players was a yard away from the R player ready to receive the ball.  Although R was NOT contacted by K, R could not have caught the ball because the ball hit the K player in the back.
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Offline js in sc

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 12:14:59 PM »
Quote from: Derek Teigen on December 28, 2018, 10:54:03 AM
WAs watching the Quick Lane Bowl between Georgia Tech and Minnesota and there was a punt by GT.  The Minnesota Player was going to catch it but it hit the GT player in the back of the helmet and bounced back 10-15 yards.  Recovered by GT.  The ball was given to Minnesota with the official signaling illegal touching.  The announcers were confused but I think this was a 10 yard penalty because the ball was moved beyond where the first/illegal touching occurred. 

In high School rules, could this have been kick catching intereference?  K players was a yard away from the R player ready to receive the ball.  Although R was NOT contacted by K, R could not have caught the ball because the ball hit the K player in the back.
Per NFHS Rule 6-5-6 this is kick catching interference and can result in an awarded fair catch with a 15 yard penalty, accept the results of the play, or a 15 yard penalty from the previous spot and replay the down.
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Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2018, 12:59:23 PM »
thank you JS in SC  ^good
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Offline goodgrr

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 01:17:28 PM »
Quote from: Derek Teigen on December 28, 2018, 10:54:03 AM
The Minnesota Player was going to catch it but it hit the GT player in the back of the helmet and bounced back 10-15 yards.  Recovered by GT.

When you say bounced back, are you saying it came off the GT player and back towards where the original kick was from?

Quote from: Derek Teigen on December 28, 2018, 10:54:03 AM
The ball was given to Minnesota with the official signaling illegal touching.  The announcers were confused but I think this was a 10 yard penalty because the ball was moved beyond where the first/illegal touching occurred. 

Assuming it wasn't kick catch interference, then it would be illegal touching.  However from your description the ball was recovered by GT in advance of that illegal touching, so GT has the option of where to take the ball, at the spot of the IT or at the dead ball spot.

Do you have a video if this isn't understanding your issue, or a time and Q so I can try and find it?

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Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2018, 03:09:41 PM »
There were multiple spots of illegal touching. The first was at the B-36 where it A1. The ball then bounced back toward the line of scrimmage and was touched by A2 at the A-48. The ball then went into a pile and I believe the ruling was that A recovered it. Originally, they only awarded the first illegal touching and were going to give B the ball at the B-36. It went to replay where the second ITK was noted. After replay they awarded B the ball at the A-48. In my opinion, it could have been KCI, but it would have been declined anyway because the second ITK was 16 yards beyond where the KCI would have been.
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Offline goodgrr

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2018, 03:22:22 PM »
Perfect, thanks.
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Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2018, 04:18:04 PM »
thanks guys.  So all spots where K touches is considered illegal touching or in high school it would be called first touching....if not deemed kick catch interference?
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Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2018, 04:49:50 PM »
Yes, B (or K in NFHS) may elect any spot of illegal touching. For instance if A1 touches the ball at the B-40, A2 then touches the ball at the B-45, B1 then touches the ball at the B48, and then A3 touches the ball at the 50. B could elect either the B-40 or B-45 since both were spots of illegal touching. The 50 is not a possible spot because A1's touching made B3's touch legal.

And to the last part of your post, the same action can be both KCI and illegal touching. In the original play, the punt hitting the gunner in the back of the head could be a case of that.
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Offline peterparsons

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 05:23:54 PM »
Legacy Zebra has it nailed.

I watched the saw the play in question live. From what I recall, the ball hit the K player on the back of the head and bounced backwards. There was then a scramble for the ball on the ground where K touched it again, then R touched it, then K recovered it, and they gave R the ball where K touched it in the scramble on the ground (the most advantageous spot for R).

LZ's point about an action being against the rules for more than one reason is also one worth remembering. There are plenty of "two ways" in the rule book, and in my career I've seen a "three way" once, also on a punt. Scenario: the punt was fairly short and in order to stop R's returner from catching the ball, a K player leapt in the air and batted the ball forwards - Illegal Touching, Kick Catch Interference and Illegal Batting all in the same action. I'm still trying to figure out if there is anything that would be a "four way".
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Illegal Touching:
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 06:16:33 PM »
Quote from: Legacy Zebra on December 28, 2018, 04:49:50 PM
Yes, B (or K in NFHS) may elect any spot of illegal touching. For instance if A1 touches the ball at the B-40, A2 then touches the ball at the B-45, B1 then touches the ball at the B48, and then A3 touches the ball at the 50. B could elect either the B-40 or B-45 since both were spots of illegal touching. The 50 is not a possible spot because A1's touching made B3's touch legal.

And to the last part of your post, the same action can be both KCI and illegal touching. In the original play, the punt hitting the gunner in the back of the head could be a case of that.

Regarding the bold/italicized part, I think you mean “...B1’s (receiving team) touching made A3’s (kicking team) touch legal.”

Otherwise, correct.

Robert
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