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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: riffraft on February 06, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
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https://www.nfhs.org/articles/additional-timing-changes-on-play-clock-approved-in-high-school-football-rules/ (https://www.nfhs.org/articles/additional-timing-changes-on-play-clock-approved-in-high-school-football-rules/)
Nothing major. Change 25 sec to 40 sec play clock on defensive penalty or injury
Allows spiking the ball from shotgun
Makes disconcerting sounds from the defensive a 5 yard instead of 15 yard penalty
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Actually, even though it’s administrative, one is fairly significant.
“ In addition, several rules will be affected by the committee’s ruling that the head coach, prior to the game, should notify the referee as to the team’s designated representative (coach or player) who will make decisions regarding penalty acceptance or declination. Several locations in the rules book required the team captains to make these decisions, so the new language throughout the book will provide teams more options.”
Seems like the coach can say we should go to him for penalties, rather than have to have the captain.
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Seems like the coach can say we should go to him for penalties, rather than have to have the captain.
Merely codifying what many of us do in practice.
We did the experiment for Immediate Spike From the Shotgun- happened 3 times in 2 games that I worked. Many officials reported 0. I used to be against it but came around to it. Our asst commissioner was in favor of it and volunteered us to be the guinea pig.
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I don’t understand what has changed here. I need example(s):
In the same rule dealing with the play clock (Rule 3-6-1), the committee approved one additional situation when 25 seconds will be on the play clock. Beginning next season, 25 seconds will be on the play clock and start on the ready-for-play signal when a new series is awarded following a legal free kick or scrimmage kick.
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Just saying after a legal kick was not enough when applying the 40/25 second clock. What if a team punts on 3rd down, the kick is blocked and recovered behind the line by Team K making it 4th down. We have a legal kick here, but shouldn't be on the 25 second clock like the rule said last year since we had a legal kick. The 40 second clock is the time interval to be used here since we have no change of possession or team personnel. Plus, by saying "after a new series of downs is awarded to either team following a legal kick" follows the game clock being started on the snap.
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Actually, even though it’s administrative, one is fairly significant.
Only for the 1% who still went to a captain...for the other 99% of us, no real change :)
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I am not understand the response by "theride" posted here. (Just saying after a legal kick was not enough when applying the 40/25 second clock. What if a team punts on 3rd down, the kick is blocked and recovered behind the line by Team K making it 4th down. We have a legal kick here, but shouldn't be on the 25 second clock like the rule said last year since we had a legal kick. The 40 second clock is the time interval to be used here since we have no change of possession or team personnel. Plus, by saying "after a new series of downs is awarded to either team following a legal kick" follows the game clock being started on the snap.)
Last season the example you described on 3rd down would have resulted in 40 seconds being placed on the play clock, not 25 seconds. Last season after a new series of downs was awarded to either team following a legal kick, we were starting the new series using the 25 seconds count on the snap so what has changed?
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Just saying after a legal kick was not enough when applying the 40/25 second clock. What if a team punts on 3rd down, the kick is blocked and recovered behind the line by Team K making it 4th down. We have a legal kick here, but shouldn't be on the 25 second clock like the rule said last year since we had a legal kick. The 40 second clock is the time interval to be used here since we have no change of possession or team personnel. Plus, by saying "after a new series of downs is awarded to either team following a legal kick" follows the game clock being started on the snap.
If I'm reading the press release correctly, then your concern is moot:
Beginning next season, 25 seconds will be on the play clock and start on the ready-for-play signal when a new series is awarded following a legal free kick or scrimmage kick.
If the 3rd down punt is blocked and recovered by K behind the LOS and the next play is 4th down, then a new series is not awarded and the play clock should be set to 40.
The only new scenario where this would kick in is if K punts, R muffs the punt and K recovers. A new series for K is awarded after the kick, so the play clock will be set to 25.
Any other scenario where R gains possession of the ball after a free or scrimmage kick was previously covered by 3-5-7c.
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“If the game is interrupted due to weather during the last three minutes of the second period, and the delay is at least 30 minutes, the opposing coaches can mutually agree to shorten halftime intermission, provided there is at least a one-minute intermission (not including the three-minute warm-up period).”
I'm all for this in general, but I think there needs to be some eventual tweaking of the warm up period.
Scenario: 2 minutes left in the 2nd quarter, a storm rolls in, lightning flashes, game halted. The weather delay lasts 45 minutes (just to pick something arbitrary).
After the storm clears, teams return to the field to finish the second quarter. This is the point in time where both teams need to warm up because they've been sitting in their locker rooms for the last most-of-an-hour.
The come back to the field, play two minutes of football, have a 1 minute intermission by mutual agreement -- AND STILL NEED THE 3 MINUTE WARM UP??? Ideally they just did that 3 minute warm up 3 minutes ago when the came back to the field after the delay...
If the weather related halftime shortening can be invoked like this, the mandatory warm up period should be moved to the time they return to the field to complete the second quarter, not still mandatory as part of "half time".
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ncwingman:The only new scenario where this would kick in is if K punts, R muffs the punt and K recovers. A new series for K is awarded after the kick, so the play clock will be set to 25.
Wasn't that the way we treated it last year?
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ncwingman:The only new scenario where this would kick in is if K punts, R muffs the punt and K recovers. A new series for K is awarded after the kick, so the play clock will be set to 25.
Wasn't that the way we treated it last year?
Digging through all of my stuff from last year, I think I found the issue that was corrected. NFHS put out a Handy Guide For Clock Operators (https://www.nfhs.org/media/1020121/2019-football-clock-operators-sheet.pdf) with interpretations for when to use 25/40. One of these scenarios, E-6(f), stated to use the 25 second play clock after any down that includes a legal kick.
The problem was that this scenario was not specifically listed in 3.6.1 or 3.5.7. *Usually*, any down that includes a legal kick also includes a change of team possession, which would invoke 3.5.7c (and by extension 3.6.1e for the 25 second play clock). However, a down that includes a legal kick that does *not* involve a change of team possession would fall under the 40 second play clock rule -- and any play that involves a double change, A-B-A, was instructed to use the 40 second play clock (E-3(e)). K recovering a muffed punt OR R gaining possession and fumbling did not have specific rule coverage to differentiate from the A-B-A ruling.
The rule change patches this oversight to match the interpretation as presented last year, but includes the "awarding of a new series" stipulation to prevent the 3rd down blocked kick scenario from applying.
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Only for the 1% who still went to a captain...for the other 99% of us, no real change :)
Wow, your pants must have really big pockets to hold all those mice.
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Wow, your pants must have really big pockets to hold all those mice.
found the 1%!
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Digging through all of my stuff from last year, I think I found the issue that was corrected. NFHS put out a Handy Guide For Clock Operators (https://www.nfhs.org/media/1020121/2019-football-clock-operators-sheet.pdf) with interpretations for when to use 25/40. One of these scenarios, E-6(f), stated to use the 25 second play clock after any down that includes a legal kick.
The problem was that this scenario was not specifically listed in 3.6.1 or 3.5.7. *Usually*, any down that includes a legal kick also includes a change of team possession, which would invoke 3.5.7c (and by extension 3.6.1e for the 25 second play clock). However, a down that includes a legal kick that does *not* involve a change of team possession would fall under the 40 second play clock rule -- and any play that involves a double change, A-B-A, was instructed to use the 40 second play clock (E-3(e)). K recovering a muffed punt OR R gaining possession and fumbling did not have specific rule coverage to differentiate from the A-B-A ruling.
The rule change patches this oversight to match the interpretation as presented last year, but includes the "awarding of a new series" stipulation to prevent the 3rd down blocked kick scenario from applying.
This is absolutely correct. Even if they went with the 40-second play clock it was very possible the crew would be sorting out something delaying the ball actually being ready for play so even absent this rule change or last year's interpretation this was probably a 25-second clock situation anyway.
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Makes disconcerting sounds from the defensive a 5 yard instead of 15 yard penalty
Not just sounds.
I'm curious what the signal will be.
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Not just sounds.
I'm curious what the signal will be.
It may be the UC signal. Similar to the "Failure to properly wear required equipment during a down" foul in 2017. That was a 5-yd penalty with the failure to wear signal AND the UC signal. 5-yd UC fouls are not considered part of the disqualifying process (15-yd UC fouls only).
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2020 Rules change announcement as posted on the NFHS website attached.
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Actually, even though it’s administrative, one is fairly significant.
“ In addition, several rules will be affected by the committee’s ruling that the head coach, prior to the game, should notify the referee as to the team’s designated representative (coach or player) who will make decisions regarding penalty acceptance or declination. Several locations in the rules book required the team captains to make these decisions, so the new language throughout the book will provide teams more options.”
Seems like the coach can say we should go to him for penalties, rather than have to have the captain.
This was a move in the direction of the way many of us were officiating. By asking the coach who will make the choice, we've cleared ourselves from a coach making one call while his captain makes another. It is felt the coach will probably choose himself most of the time.
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Merely codifying what many of us do in practice.
We did the experiment for Immediate Spike From the Shotgun- happened 3 times in 2 games that I worked. Many officials reported 0. I used to be against it but came around to it. Our asst commissioner was in favor of it and volunteered us to be the guinea pig.
Mark Dreilbelbis , N.C.'s rep. , did a great job of explaining the experimental results and it passed overwhelmingly .
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I am not understand the response by "theride" posted here. (Just saying after a legal kick was not enough when applying the 40/25 second clock. What if a team punts on 3rd down, the kick is blocked and recovered behind the line by Team K making it 4th down. We have a legal kick here, but shouldn't be on the 25 second clock like the rule said last year since we had a legal kick. The 40 second clock is the time interval to be used here since we have no change of possession or team personnel. Plus, by saying "after a new series of downs is awarded to either team following a legal kick" follows the game clock being started on the snap.)
Last season the example you described on 3rd down would have resulted in 40 seconds being placed on the play clock, not 25 seconds. Last season after a new series of downs was awarded to either team following a legal kick, we were starting the new series using the 25 seconds count on the snap so what has changed?
It was intended to be added to 3-6-1a(1) last year ,but was omitted. The rationale is ,like COP, the 25" clock applies when additional time may be needed if the is a unit change. If K becomes A by recovering a R muff, this should be an administrative stoppage.
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Mark Dreilbelbis , N.C.'s rep. , did a great job of explaining the experimental results and it passed overwhelmingly .
I'm sure I'll get to see it in August during the state meeting, but if you have and/or can share those results, I'd be curious. As HLinNC noted, I think I saw it happen once all year.
It was not confusing as a rule change, but it wasn't really utilized either -- but maybe the other side of the state saw it used more?
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I'm all for this in general, but I think there needs to be some eventual tweaking of the warm up period.
Scenario: 2 minutes left in the 2nd quarter, a storm rolls in, lightning flashes, game halted. The weather delay lasts 45 minutes (just to pick something arbitrary).
After the storm clears, teams return to the field to finish the second quarter. This is the point in time where both teams need to warm up because they've been sitting in their locker rooms for the last most-of-an-hour.
The come back to the field, play two minutes of football, have a 1 minute intermission by mutual agreement -- AND STILL NEED THE 3 MINUTE WARM UP??? Ideally they just did that 3 minute warm up 3 minutes ago when the came back to the field after the delay...
The 3-minute warm-up will still be required after the 1-minute halftime. This requires mutual consent between both coaches as such things as homecoming, senior night or band taking the field can still be preserved.
I was the ogre that caused this rule change. A few years back ,on a hot, humid afternoon, Thor - the Greek god of lightning - came to visit. The athletic director came to visit us in our hideaway . He stated that was the halftime, there was around 1:30 in the half and the home team was inside B's 10, He wanted to go directly to the 3rd period after we had finished the 2nd. I STATED that the halftime could be shortened to 10 minutes BUT, by rule, we still needed to have one. In discussing this at the NFHS, it was decided to include this scenario, as a POE , 2 years ago in the Officials' Manual and last year's Rules Book. In this sue-happy world of ours, this rule change takes us off the hook.
If the weather related halftime shortening can be invoked like this, the mandatory warm up period should be moved to the time they return to the field to complete the second quarter, not still mandatory as part of "half time".
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Not just sounds.
I'm curious what the signal will be.
#33, same signal as the now defunct Failure to Wear Proper Equipment.
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ncwingman:The only new scenario where this would kick in is if K punts, R muffs the punt and K recovers. A new series for K is awarded after the kick, so the play clock will be set to 25.
Wasn't that the way we treated it last year?
It was intended that we should, just not in print.
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It may be the UC signal. Similar to the "Failure to properly wear required equipment during a down" foul in 2017. That was a 5-yd penalty with the failure to wear signal AND the UC signal. 5-yd UC fouls are not considered part of the disqualifying process (15-yd UC fouls only).
Welcome to the forum, may you find it both enjoyable and informative. Your reference to signal #27 & #23 only indicates that it is a noncontact foul ,so the basic spot becomes the succeeding spot. It's usage is rare in this situation as now it's only usage is for INTENTIONAL pass interference.
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I'm sure I'll get to see it in August during the state meeting, but if you have and/or can share those results, I'd be curious. As HLinNC noted, I think I saw it happen once all year.
It was not confusing as a rule change, but it wasn't really utilized either -- but maybe the other side of the state saw it used more?
It passed 45-7 (49 states, DC ,NASO & NCO) . I was one of the 7, but didn't voice my decent. I saved my voice for the next on the ballot , OK to intentionally ground if the QB outside of tackle box and pass crosses LOS. That failed 21-31.
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A laundry list of Points of Emphasis topics is compiled. Each sub-committee (4) submits several and a floor vote is taken as to which to choose. This year, the three chosen were :
1. Sportsmanship
2. Intentional Grounding
3. Ineligible Downfield and Line of Scrimmage Formation
The Editorial Committee assembles the POEs and won't be available to the rank and file until the Rules Book is published
FYI -
The last time Sportsmanship was a topic was 2009. This was the first time the other two were topics. The most popular topic , over the years was : Illegal Personal Contact -Safety. It was POE 13 times between 1980 - 2017. It was also POE in 1985,1986,1987,1988,1989,1990,1991,and 1992. A repetitive record that probably never be broken !!!
tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl tR:oLl
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Ralph, can you elaborate on the Line of Scrimmage formation emphasis.
Is the emphasis towards leniency on the separation (blade of grass) or more towards rule book definition of lineman and back?
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It passed 45-7 (49 states, DC ,NASO & NCO).
Ralph, what is NCO?
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The 3-minute warm-up will still be required after the 1-minute halftime.
... but why?? If you come back from a long delay, you should warm up prior to resuming play... it makes no sense to enforce *another* warm up period shortly thereafter.
It passed 45-7 (49 states, DC ,NASO & NCO) . I was one of the 7, but didn't voice my decent. I saved my voice for the next on the ballot , OK to intentionally ground if the QB outside of tackle box and pass crosses LOS. That failed 21-31.
I was more curious about the results of the experiment, not the vote. How many times did it happen and was there any significant feedback from other coaches/officials presented?
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>SPIKING THE BALL TO CONSERVE TIME (7-5-2 EXCEPTION)
>Rationale: The exception to allow a player to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the >snap, has been expanded to include any player positioned directly behind the center. This exception now includes snaps that are not hand-to- hand.
I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun. Errant snap goes over QB's head, QB goes back 10 yards to chase ball, recovers the ball (while being swarmed by other players) and immediately spikes it.
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Poorly executed snaps or handling thereof, removes the exception for the ball to be legally "spiked".
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I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun. Errant snap goes over QB's head, QB goes back 10 yards to chase ball, recovers the ball (while being swarmed by other players) and immediately spikes it.
“Receiving the snap” implies that he snap is caught (otherwise it’s a muff). Also, I can’t imagine anyone judging the action you described as “immediate.”
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I'm with them. if he muffs it, or if the snap is bad, it's not spiked immediately. Flag.
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Not just sounds.
I'm curious what the signal will be.
Delay of game - defense?
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NV in your original post, either under center OR in shotgun, this play would result in an illegal forward pass. The snap must be controlled directly. The snap ends when it touches the player or the ground, therefore any "muff" or snap hitting the ground would wipe off the exception.
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>SPIKING THE BALL TO CONSERVE TIME (7-5-2 EXCEPTION)
>Rationale: The exception to allow a player to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the >snap, has been expanded to include any player positioned directly behind the center. This exception now includes snaps that are not hand-to- hand.
I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun. Errant snap goes over QB's head, QB goes back 10 yards to chase ball, recovers the ball (while being swarmed by other players) and immediately spikes it.
What if he was under center and muffed the direct snap and then picked it up and spiked it before this year? Same answer this year for your question with the new rule.
Don't make this harder than it is. It's unlikely you'll see it anyway.
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I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun.
The QB is either under center or in shotgun. He cannot be in two places at the same time.
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The QB is either under center or in shotgun. He cannot be in tow places at the same time.
You haven't been involved in a game with the Heisenberg U Fighting Schrodingers.
Since the offense has to be set for a second without moving prior to the snap, then you know the QB's velocity (or more importantly, his momentum). Since you are certain he's not moving, you can't be certain about his location.
:sTiR:
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You haven't been involved in a game with the Heisenberg U Fighting Schrodingers.
Since the offense has to be set for a second without moving prior to the snap, then you know the QB's velocity (or more importantly, his momentum). Since you are certain he's not moving, you can't be certain about his location.
:sTiR:
I love it! +1
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Would have liked to see helmet contact/targeting as a POE. I feel like NFHS went from leader in discouraging these acts a few years ago to now clearly being behind NCAA as far as consequences for those hits and being one or two rule tweaks away from being behind the NFL.
I also saw A LOT of ignoring the new excessive contract on defenseless players rule, especially in playoff games. I feel like a lot of the old guard, "that's football hEaDbAnG" types just decided they weren't going to call that rule the way NFHS wanted.
I feel both of those would have been better options than this formation thing and the ridiculously broad "sportsmanship."
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Ralph, can you elaborate on the Line of Scrimmage formation emphasis.
Is the emphasis towards leniency on the separation (blade of grass) or more towards rule book definition of lineman and back?
I can only assume that is in reference to the age old concern of : Is he/she a linesman or back ? This wasn't one of my picks, so I didn't have any input on it.
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Ralph, what is NCO?
Correct title is NFHS-CA....Coaches Association. I was a' thinking that it was National Coaches Org. ...or something theresuch.
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... but why?? If you come back from a long delay, you should warm up prior to resuming play... it makes no sense to enforce *another* warm up period shortly thereafter.
I was more curious about the results of the experiment, not the vote. How many times did it happen and was there any significant feedback from other coaches/officials presented?
Ques # 1 : Protocol, I guess...we've always had the warm up period following the halftime. Teams may arrive back on the field at differing times following the "all clear" announcement.
Ques #2 : The spike was used from the shotgun 54 times during the season, 25 in the 2nd quarter and 29 in the 4th quarter. There was one muff that then lead to a spike ^flag and was called IG.
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Remember, too, the spike has to be to CONSERVE TIME, not because a gang of big ole' Bubbas are closing in. IF the QB sees a blitz coming and spikes it during the middle of the 1st period, the hankie should fly.
^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag ^flag
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Question - when using the "under center" spike, the rule states the ball must go directly to the QB's hand with no bobble or muff. Assuming the same with the shotgun, does that include a high snap where the QB has to leave his feet to catch it? or a snap over his head. Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it? What if it's high, he tips it and then catches it. Can he still spike without penalty? Or, what about the low snap that bounces before it gets to him. Can he spike that?
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Question - when using the "under center" spike, the rule states the ball must go directly to the QB's hand with no bobble or muff. Assuming the same with the shotgun, does that include a high snap where the QB has to leave his feet to catch it? or a snap over his head. Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it? What if it's high, he tips it and then catches it. Can he still spike without penalty? Or, what about the low snap that bounces before it gets to him. Can he spike that?
He would have to catch it clean, without bobble, and quickly spike it. Remember, it has to be in a situation where it is needed to conserve time, not to prevent a sack.
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Question - when using the "under center" spike, the rule states the ball must go directly to the QB's hand with no bobble or muff. Assuming the same with the shotgun, does that include a high snap where the QB has to leave his feet to catch it? or a snap over his head. Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it? What if it's high, he tips it and then catches it. Can he still spike without penalty? Or, what about the low snap that bounces before it gets to him. Can he spike that?
No different than the snap under center. If he muffs it he loses the ability to spike it to stop the clock. If he catches the high snap he can still legally spike it immediately. If the snap goes over his head and hits the ground he can't. If he tips that would be a muff by definition and he loses the ability to legally spike it. If the ball bounces to him it's no longer a catch but a recovery and he loses the ability to spike it.
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Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it?
He can turn, catch and immediately spike it forward. I'd give him a little leeway on the twisting required as long as it is still obviously "immediate" (not 2 whole seconds, for instance).
However, if he turns, catches, and then spikes it *backwards* (because he turned around) -- that's not a spike at all, and it just a fumble and still a live ball.
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He can turn, catch and immediately spike it forward. I'd give him a little leeway on the twisting required as long as it is still obviously "immediate" (not 2 whole seconds, for instance).
However, if he turns, catches, and then spikes it *backwards* (because he turned around) -- that's not a spike at all, and it just a fumble and still a live ball.
Semantics but it's not a fumble but a backward pass. Still a live ball but not illegal. Clock continues to run.
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Whether you think this a worthwhile idea, or not, it "is what it is, and a new rule to follow. Since the whole "spiking" idea became a reality, smart officials have been seeking, and usually getting, an indication from the QB that the intent was to spike, so they could be better prepared and on guard to reduce the "unexpected".
Same common sense applies, maybe even more important with this revision. Reminding the QB what he needs to do, and a little bit of what should NOT be done, is still a good idea and falls under the blanket of "Preventive Officiating". The OBJECTIVE remains to IMMEDIATELY stop further action, which allows the game clock to continue running, it's NOT to be creative and/or deceitful nor allow anyone to gain some foolish UNEARNED Advantage.
IMMEDIATELY is still a critical element, and is STILL determined EXCLUSIVELY by the field game officials.
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Would have liked to see helmet contact/targeting as a POE. I feel like NFHS went from leader in discouraging these acts a few years ago to now clearly being behind NCAA as far as consequences for those hits and being one or two rule tweaks away from being behind the NFL.
I also saw A LOT of ignoring the new excessive contract on defenseless players rule, especially in playoff games. I feel like a lot of the old guard, "that's football hEaDbAnG" types just decided they weren't going to call that rule the way NFHS wanted.
I feel both of those would have been better options than this formation thing and the ridiculously broad "sportsmanship."
Legal/Illegal Helmet Contact wins the silver medal in POE history with 12 : 2017,13,12,11,10,06,04,96,94,86,85,1983
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Not just sounds.
I'm curious what the signal will be.
Prior to 2020
9-5-1d...Using disconcerting acts or words prior to the snap in an attempt to interfere with A's signals or movements (15 yards, S7-27)
Effective 2020
7-1-9...Using disconcerting acts or words prior to the snap in an attempt to interfere with A's signals or movements (5 yards, S7-23)
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S-7 S-19
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Prior to 2020
9-5-1d...Using disconcerting acts or words prior to the snap in an attempt to interfere with A's signals or movements (15 yards, S7-27)
Effective 2020
7-1-9...Using disconcerting acts or words prior to the snap in an attempt to interfere with A's signals or movements (5 yards, S7-23)
S23, which is currently "Failure to wear required equipment"?
Is there a link to the actual wording of the new rules somewhere, or just the press releases?
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Not til the books come out NCwing- its going under 7-1-9 as a new rule. Don't know if they'll just copy 9-5-1 with a new penalty enforcement or take the time to revise. Ralph may know.
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Not til the books come out NCwing- its going under 7-1-9 as a new rule. Don't know if they'll just copy 9-5-1 with a new penalty enforcement or take the time to revise. Ralph may know.
I do......
PUBLICATIONS SCHEDULE
RULES BOOK 4/20
POWERPOINT 5/22 (0n line)
CLOCK OPERATOR 3/20 (on website)
LINE-to-GAIN 3/20 "
SIGNAL CHART 3/20 "
RULES POSTER 4/20
SAFETY POSTER 4/20
PRESEASON GUIDE 5/20
CASE BOOK 5/18
OFFICIALS MANUAL 5/27
My understanding is the wording will remain the same, only relocated in the book to put in with the 5-yarders.
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Is there a reason why we don't get the actual wording of the new rules right away? I assume that when you discuss and vote at the meeting, you vote on the exact rule change -- not just some vague idea that a follow up committee has to implement.
There's the major press release with rule changes and quotes, written journalistically, and there's the complete list of rule changes here (https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/football-rules-changes-2020/) with "Rationales" -- but why not, in that complete list of rule changes, do you not just include the actual wording of the new/revised rules that were approved at the meeting?
You don't need to include the whole rulebook, but if there's a new 25 second play clock exception that requires a new rule designated 3-6-1a(1)f, why not just include what 3-6-1a(1)f is?
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Is there a reason why we don't get the actual wording of the new rules right away? I assume that when you discuss and vote at the meeting, you vote on the exact rule change -- not just some vague idea that a follow up committee has to implement.
There's the major press release with rule changes and quotes, written journalistically, and there's the complete list of rule changes here (https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/football-rules-changes-2020/) with "Rationales" -- but why not, in that complete list of rule changes, do you not just include the actual wording of the new/revised rules that were approved at the meeting?
You don't need to include the whole rulebook, but if there's a new 25 second play clock exception that requires a new rule designated 3-6-1a(1)f, why not just include what 3-6-1a(1)f is?
There is a separate editorial committee that takes the approved changes and updates all the places in the rule book and case book impacted. The rule change proposals aren't that thorough although you are asked to list all the places you think are impacted. The risk here is the editorial committee could unintentionally word something other than intended like what happened last year with the "4 in the backfield" rule change. Rule writing is harder than most of us realize and should not be rushed.
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S23, which is currently "Failure to wear required equipment"?
Is there a link to the actual wording of the new rules somewhere, or just the press releases?
Failure to wear required equipment is no longer a "foul" rather we simply send the player out.
As such,
Signal 23 will be relabeled in both the Rules Book and the Game Officials Manual as "Disconcerting Signals"
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Failure to wear required equipment is no longer a "foul" rather we simply send the player out.
As such,
Signal 23 will be relabeled in both the Rules Book and the Game Officials Manual as "Disconcerting Signals"
I like it - kind of like Arena Football using the "invalid fair catch" signal as "Illegal Defense", since there are no fair catches in Arena Football.
Checked the NCAA book, and S23 is only used for
1) When players use an illegal jersey number (like zero) or when 2 players play the same down with the same number.
2) Wearing cleats that are more than 1/2 inch in length.
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I do......
PUBLICATIONS SCHEDULE
RULES BOOK 4/20
POWERPOINT 5/22 (0n line)
CLOCK OPERATOR 3/20 (on website)
LINE-to-GAIN 3/20 "
SIGNAL CHART 3/20 "
RULES POSTER 4/20
SAFETY POSTER 4/20
PRESEASON GUIDE 5/20
CASE BOOK 5/18
OFFICIALS MANUAL 5/27
My understanding is the wording will remain the same, only relocated in the book to put in with the 5-yarders.
Ralph:
Do you have the date for publication of the "Simplified and Illustrated"?
I find this more helpful than any of the others.
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Ralph:
Do you have the date for publication on the "Simplified and Illustrated?
I find this more helpful than any of the others.
I assume it would be published around the same time as the case book and official's manual. I also assume that Brady will remain with the Patriots and the Red Sox will not win the World Series. My assumptions are not always correct.
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I think you're gonna be batting 1 for 3 on these predictions :)
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I think you're gonna be batting 1 for 3 on these predictions :)
Did you not notice the "NOT" on the World Series prediction ;D . While Mr. Brady may be floating trial money bags, Mrs. Brady likes her current home. It is said that Mrs. Brady is worth more than Mr. Brady. :!#
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Did you not notice the "NOT" on the World Series prediction ;D . While Mr. Brady may be floating trial money bags, Mrs. Brady likes her current home. It is said that Mrs. Brady is worth more than Mr. Brady. :!#
I thought they sold there home.
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I have a question on our playoff test out here in Colorado related to the 40 sec play clock on defensive player injury. (2020 rule change)
Here's the test question:
If a defensive player is injured and after the clock is stopped an official notices an offensive player is also injured, the following will occur:
1. Team B will decide what to set the play clock to.
2. The play clock will be set to 25 seconds
3. Team A will decide what to set the play clock to.
4. The play clock will be set to 40 seconds.
I can't find anything in the case book that shows a scenario like this.
My gut tells me the answer is 4. (Play clock will be set to 40 seconds)
Answers 1 and 3 don't make any sense.
Any input or feedback would be appreciated.
Thank you.
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I have a question on our playoff test out here in Colorado related to the 40 sec play clock on defensive player injury. (2020 rule change)
Here's the test question:
If a defensive player is injured and after the clock is stopped an official notices an offensive player is also injured, the following will occur:
1. Team B will decide what to set the play clock to.
2. The play clock will be set to 25 seconds
3. Team A will decide what to set the play clock to.
4. The play clock will be set to 40 seconds.
When in doubt, it's best to trust, and go with your "gut".
(According to the NFHS 2020 Preseason Football Guide, NFHS Clarifies Play Clock Situations): "If a defensive player must leave the field due to an injury or an equipment-related issue as in 3-5-7e or 3-5-10, the play clock will be set to 40 seconds.
In the event both an offensive and defensive player are involved the game officials will determine for which the game official's time out was initially taken. If the offensive player was noticed first, the play clock will be set to 25 seconds; otherwise it is set to 40 seconds."
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When in doubt, it's best to trust, and go with your "gut".
(According to the NFHS 2020 Preseason Football Guide, NFHS Clarifies Play Clock Situations): "If a defensive player must leave the field due to an injury or an equipment-related issue as in 3-5-7e or 3-5-10, the play clock will be set to 40 seconds.
In the event both an offensive and defensive player are involved the game officials will determine for which the game official's time out was initially taken. If the offensive player was noticed first, the play clock will be set to 25 seconds; otherwise it is set to 40 seconds."
While the Preseason Guide is intended to provide guidance on Rules Clarification, occasionally the Preseason Guide is in error.
Unfortunately, this is one of those occasions.
Please review:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mFR3vfgmlbTeLeHUsWmyhLijU3YzOUyS/view?usp=sharing
Right, wrong or indifferent, please note that the ruling provided in the Preseason Guide was revised at the SRI meeting for simplification purposes.
I would expect a Case Book Play in future years.
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Question on about a supposed rule change.. was listening to a discussion on timing after a score and before the Free Kick. In the discussion there was the assertion the time changed from 60 second to 2 minutes. I have searched the rule book for this change but cannot find it. Anyone have insight or add some clarity?
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This may be a temporary, state specific, Covid-19, related change. It won't be in the rulebook and is not permanent.
There are some issues with hydration for players and officials. Some jurisdiction are recommending officials bring their own water and some are requiring separate containers per player. Extending intermissions and time-outs allows everyone to get hydrated.
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:thumbup "This is a temporary, state specific, Covid-19, related change. It won't be in the rulebook and is not permanent."
GREAT Thanks!!
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Question on about a supposed rule change.. was listening to a discussion on timing after a score and before the Free Kick. In the discussion there was the assertion the time changed from 60 second to 2 minutes. I have searched the rule book for this change but cannot find it. Anyone have insight or add some clarity?
It's in a document released by the NFHS called, "2020-21 NFHS Football Rules Considerations." But it doesn't specifically mention the time interval between scores and kickoff. It addresses charged time outs:
o CHARGED TIME-OUTS AND AUTHORIZED CONFERENCES (Rules 2-6-2, 3-5-3, 3-5-8)
▪ A single charged time-out may be extended to a maximum of two minutes in length.