Author Topic: 2020 Rule Changes are out (Read 26688 times)

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2020, 09:10:21 AM »

Quote from: ncwingman on February 10, 2020, 08:28:26 AM

I'm sure I'll get to see it in August during the state meeting, but if you have and/or can share those results, I'd be curious. As HLinNC noted, I think I saw it happen once all year.

It was not confusing as a rule change, but it wasn't really utilized either -- but maybe the other side of the state saw it used more?

It passed 45-7 (49 states, DC ,NASO & NCO) . I was one of the 7, but didn't voice my decent. I saved my voice for the next on the ballot , OK to intentionally ground if the QB outside of tackle box and pass crosses LOS. That failed 21-31.

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2020, 10:51:19 AM »

A laundry list of Points of Emphasis topics is compiled. Each sub-committee (4) submits several and a floor vote is taken as to which to choose. This year, the three chosen were :
1. Sportsmanship
2. Intentional Grounding
3. Ineligible Downfield and Line of Scrimmage Formation

The Editorial Committee assembles the POEs and won't be available to the rank and file until the Rules Book is published
FYI -
The last time Sportsmanship was a topic was 2009. This was the first time the other two were topics. The most popular topic , over the years was : Illegal Personal Contact -Safety. It was POE 13 times between 1980 - 2017. It was also POE in 1985,1986,1987,1988,1989,1990,1991,and 1992. A repetitive record that probably never be broken !!!

markrischard · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2020, 11:47:27 AM »

Ralph, can you elaborate on the Line of Scrimmage formation emphasis.
Is the emphasis towards leniency on the separation (blade of grass) or more towards rule book definition of lineman and back?

Patrick E. · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2020, 12:53:59 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on February 10, 2020, 09:10:21 AM

It passed 45-7 (49 states, DC ,NASO & NCO).

Ralph, what is NCO?

ncwingman · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2020, 01:06:47 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on February 10, 2020, 08:40:31 AM

The 3-minute warm-up will still be required after the 1-minute halftime.

... but why?? If you come back from a long delay, you should warm up prior to resuming play... it makes no sense to enforce *another* warm up period shortly thereafter.

Quote from: Ralph Damren on February 10, 2020, 09:10:21 AM

It passed 45-7 (49 states, DC ,NASO & NCO) . I was one of the 7, but didn't voice my decent. I saved my voice for the next on the ballot , OK to intentionally ground if the QB outside of tackle box and pass crosses LOS. That failed 21-31.

I was more curious about the results of the experiment, not the vote. How many times did it happen and was there any significant feedback from other coaches/officials presented?

bbeagle · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2020, 01:53:13 PM »

>SPIKING THE BALL TO CONSERVE TIME (7-5-2 EXCEPTION)
>Rationale: The exception to allow a player to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the >snap, has been expanded to include any player positioned directly behind the center. This exception now includes snaps that are not hand-to- hand.

I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun. Errant snap goes over QB's head, QB goes back 10 yards to chase ball, recovers the ball (while being swarmed by other players) and immediately spikes it.

ucanfindmj · « **Reply #31 on:** February 10, 2020, 02:13:36 PM »

Poorly executed snaps or handling thereof, removes the exception for the ball to be legally "spiked".

bama_stripes · « **Reply #32 on:** February 10, 2020, 02:22:22 PM »

Quote from: bbeagle on February 10, 2020, 01:53:13 PM

I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun. Errant snap goes over QB's head, QB goes back 10 yards to chase ball, recovers the ball (while being swarmed by other players) and immediately spikes it.

“Receiving the snap” implies that he snap is caught (otherwise it’s a muff). Also, I can’t imagine anyone judging the action you described as “immediate.”

VALJ · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2020, 03:22:04 PM »

I'm with them. if he muffs it, or if the snap is bad, it's not spiked immediately. Flag.

VALJ · « **Reply #34 on:** February 10, 2020, 03:23:28 PM »

Quote from: refjeff on February 08, 2020, 11:40:16 AM

Not just sounds.

I'm curious what the signal will be.

Delay of game - defense?

Stinterp · « **Reply #35 on:** February 10, 2020, 04:02:23 PM »

NV in your original post, either under center OR in shotgun, this play would result in an illegal forward pass. The snap must be controlled directly. The snap ends when it touches the player or the ground, therefore any "muff" or snap hitting the ground would wipe off the exception.

Magician · « **Reply #36 on:** February 10, 2020, 04:52:13 PM »

Quote from: bbeagle on February 10, 2020, 01:53:13 PM

>SPIKING THE BALL TO CONSERVE TIME (7-5-2 EXCEPTION)
>Rationale: The exception to allow a player to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the >snap, has been expanded to include any player positioned directly behind the center. This exception now includes snaps that are not hand-to- hand.

I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun. Errant snap goes over QB's head, QB goes back 10 yards to chase ball, recovers the ball (while being swarmed by other players) and immediately spikes it.

What if he was under center and muffed the direct snap and then picked it up and spiked it before this year? Same answer this year for your question with the new rule.

Don't make this harder than it is. It's unlikely you'll see it anyway.

refjeff · « **Reply #37 on:** February 10, 2020, 05:54:12 PM »

Quote from: bbeagle on February 10, 2020, 01:53:13 PM

I know the following was not INTENDED, but does the exception still apply to the following?
QB under center in shotgun.

The QB is either under center or in shotgun. He cannot be in two places at the same time.

ncwingman · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2020, 07:44:51 PM »

Quote from: refjeff on February 10, 2020, 05:54:12 PM

The QB is either under center or in shotgun. He cannot be in tow places at the same time.

You haven't been involved in a game with the Heisenberg U Fighting Schrodingers.

Since the offense has to be set for a second without moving prior to the snap, then you know the QB's velocity (or more importantly, his momentum). Since you are certain he's not moving, you can't be certain about his location.

prab · « **Reply #39 on:** February 10, 2020, 07:49:33 PM »

Quote from: ncwingman on February 10, 2020, 07:44:51 PM

You haven't been involved in a game with the Heisenberg U Fighting Schrodingers.

Since the offense has to be set for a second without moving prior to the snap, then you know the QB's velocity (or more importantly, his momentum). Since you are certain he's not moving, you can't be certain about his location.

I love it! +1

brettjr2005 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 11, 2020, 12:57:03 AM »

Would have liked to see helmet contact/targeting as a POE. I feel like NFHS went from leader in discouraging these acts a few years ago to now clearly being behind NCAA as far as consequences for those hits and being one or two rule tweaks away from being behind the NFL.

I also saw A LOT of ignoring the new excessive contract on defenseless players rule, especially in playoff games. I feel like a lot of the old guard, "that's football

" types just decided they weren't going to call that rule the way NFHS wanted.

I feel both of those would have been better options than this formation thing and the ridiculously broad "sportsmanship."

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #41 on:** February 11, 2020, 08:21:39 AM »

Quote from: markrischard on February 10, 2020, 11:47:27 AM

Ralph, can you elaborate on the Line of Scrimmage formation emphasis.
Is the emphasis towards leniency on the separation (blade of grass) or more towards rule book definition of lineman and back?

I can only assume that is in reference to the age old concern of : Is he/she a linesman or back ? This wasn't one of my picks, so I didn't have any input on it.

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #42 on:** February 11, 2020, 08:25:14 AM »

Quote from: Patrick E. on February 10, 2020, 12:53:59 PM

Ralph, what is NCO?

Correct title is NFHS-CA....Coaches Association. I was a' thinking that it was National Coaches Org. ...or something theresuch.

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #43 on:** February 11, 2020, 08:33:38 AM »

Quote from: ncwingman on February 10, 2020, 01:06:47 PM

... but why?? If you come back from a long delay, you should warm up prior to resuming play... it makes no sense to enforce *another* warm up period shortly thereafter.

I was more curious about the results of the experiment, not the vote. How many times did it happen and was there any significant feedback from other coaches/officials presented?

Ques # 1 : Protocol, I guess...we've always had the warm up period following the halftime. Teams may arrive back on the field at differing times following the "all clear" announcement.

Ques #2 : The spike was used from the shotgun 54 times during the season, 25 in the 2nd quarter and 29 in the 4th quarter. There was one muff that then lead to a spike

and was called IG.

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #44 on:** February 11, 2020, 08:43:35 AM »

Remember, too, the spike has to be to CONSERVE TIME, not because a gang of big ole' Bubbas are closing in. IF the QB sees a blitz coming and spikes it during the middle of the 1st period, the hankie should fly.

NMWH · « **Reply #45 on:** February 11, 2020, 12:03:54 PM »

Question - when using the "under center" spike, the rule states the ball must go directly to the QB's hand with no bobble or muff. Assuming the same with the shotgun, does that include a high snap where the QB has to leave his feet to catch it? or a snap over his head. Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it? What if it's high, he tips it and then catches it. Can he still spike without penalty? Or, what about the low snap that bounces before it gets to him. Can he spike that?

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #46 on:** February 11, 2020, 12:43:46 PM »

Quote from: NMWH on February 11, 2020, 12:03:54 PM

Question - when using the "under center" spike, the rule states the ball must go directly to the QB's hand with no bobble or muff. Assuming the same with the shotgun, does that include a high snap where the QB has to leave his feet to catch it? or a snap over his head. Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it? What if it's high, he tips it and then catches it. Can he still spike without penalty? Or, what about the low snap that bounces before it gets to him. Can he spike that?

He would have to catch it clean, without bobble, and quickly spike it. Remember, it has to be in a situation where it is needed to conserve time, not to prevent a sack.

Magician · « **Reply #47 on:** February 11, 2020, 12:45:23 PM »

Quote from: NMWH on February 11, 2020, 12:03:54 PM

Question - when using the "under center" spike, the rule states the ball must go directly to the QB's hand with no bobble or muff. Assuming the same with the shotgun, does that include a high snap where the QB has to leave his feet to catch it? or a snap over his head. Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it? What if it's high, he tips it and then catches it. Can he still spike without penalty? Or, what about the low snap that bounces before it gets to him. Can he spike that?

No different than the snap under center. If he muffs it he loses the ability to spike it to stop the clock. If he catches the high snap he can still legally spike it immediately. If the snap goes over his head and hits the ground he can't. If he tips that would be a muff by definition and he loses the ability to legally spike it. If the ball bounces to him it's no longer a catch but a recovery and he loses the ability to spike it.

ncwingman · « **Reply #48 on:** February 11, 2020, 01:17:44 PM »

Quote from: NMWH on February 11, 2020, 12:03:54 PM

Can he turn, catch it, and still spike it?

He can turn, catch and immediately spike it forward. I'd give him a little leeway on the twisting required as long as it is still obviously "immediate" (not 2 whole seconds, for instance).

However, if he turns, catches, and then spikes it *backwards* (because he turned around) -- that's not a spike at all, and it just a fumble and still a live ball.

Magician · « **Reply #49 on:** February 11, 2020, 01:51:28 PM »

Quote from: ncwingman on February 11, 2020, 01:17:44 PM

He can turn, catch and immediately spike it forward. I'd give him a little leeway on the twisting required as long as it is still obviously "immediate" (not 2 whole seconds, for instance).

However, if he turns, catches, and then spikes it *backwards* (because he turned around) -- that's not a spike at all, and it just a fumble and still a live ball.

Semantics but it's not a fumble but a backward pass. Still a live ball but not illegal. Clock continues to run.