Author Topic: UNS question  (Read 4599 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LJ1977

  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
UNS question
« on: October 25, 2017, 08:50:39 AM »
Interception return for a TD. Defender dives into the end zone. Is it a TD? He started  his dive from about the 1 ydline

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: UNS question
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 10:04:05 AM »
By RULE, not a TD.  By rule 9-2-1-a-1-e, this is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul that occurs during a live ball, thus, by the penalty statement, it is to be penalized as a live-ball foul, according to the Basic Spot and the 3 & 1 principle.  The basic spot would be the end of the run, which is the goal line.  The foul is behind the Basic Spot, thus, the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul. Repeat the down (or first down, if the penalty leaves the ball beyond the line-to-gain).  The game clock will start on the snap (due to the apparent score).  Play clock at 25 and starts on the referee's signal.

Philosophically, if you can rule the ball as having broken the plane of the goal line before he began the leaping action, then allow the TD and penalize as a dead-ball UNS (on the Try or the succeeding kickoff, offended team's option).  Make this clearly as happening in the field of play, to be a live-ball foul.

Either way, tally this as a UNS to this player.  If he gets a second UNS (or, if this is his second), he is disqualified from further participation in that contest.

Robert

Offline Rulesman

  • Past Keeper of the Keys
  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
  • FAN REACTION: +65535/-2
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: UNS question
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 01:14:45 PM »
Agree with Elvis by rule and philosophically, but this is really one of those plays you actually have to see on film to say yea or nay. Is he calling attention to himself, or is there a legitimate reason for the "dive." Could be he has defenders in or near his hip pocket? Just surmising...
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: UNS question
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 02:19:03 PM »
Agree with Elvis by rule and philosophically, but this is really one of those plays you actually have to see on film to say yea or nay. Is he calling attention to himself, or is there a legitimate reason for the "dive." Could be he has defenders in or near his hip pocket? Just surmising...

Yeah, I was just imagining this guy free and clear.  Truly, if he is being trailed by a defender that you can say had some sort of chance to catch him, then that let's him off the hook.

Robert

Offline wlemonnier

  • *
  • Posts: 142
  • FAN REACTION: +46/-2
Re: UNS question
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 03:35:53 PM »
If an official is "parked" on the goal line then philosophy on allowing the score should be out the window... Make the Call !!!  You have to have the skill to rule on TD v. fumble at the goal line, then rule on whether he did the UNS before or after.  Save the philosophy for when you're trailing the play and don't have a good look or angle down the goal line.
Bill LeMonnier

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: UNS question
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 04:00:37 PM »
If an official is "parked" on the goal line then philosophy on allowing the score should be out the window... Make the Call !!!  You have to have the skill to rule on TD v. fumble at the goal line, then rule on whether he did the UNS before or after.  Save the philosophy for when you're trailing the play and don't have a good look or angle down the goal line.

I'm good with that (I'm more than good with that - I love it) as long as those above support. 

Robert

Offline LJ1977

  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-2
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: UNS question
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 04:56:58 PM »
Thank you for the responses. it was a quick out that was returned for a TD. I was tailing the play, but only by a step or two. I called it a TD. After looking at the film, I should not have allowed the TD.

Offline dvasques

  • *
  • Posts: 508
  • FAN REACTION: +13/-2
Re: UNS question
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 11:11:05 PM »
What if team B declines the penalty? Then we have the TD?

You may ask "why would Team B decline this penalty?" and the answer we got from the team which did that here in Brasil is "because we don't agree with this stupid rule"

Anyways, decline the penalty and we have a TD?

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3307
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: UNS question
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2017, 03:20:18 AM »
What if team B declines the penalty? Then we have the TD?

You may ask "why would Team B decline this penalty?" and the answer we got from the team which did that here in Brasil is "because we don't agree with this stupid rule"

Anyways, decline the penalty and we have a TD?

Yes, it is a normal live-ball foul, so declining the penalty results in a TD. Note, however, that the foul still counts for the two UNS limit for the player who fouled. Opponents cannot decline an ejection.

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: UNS question
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 06:59:45 AM »
Not sure I agree with the philosophy of "If close, then TD."

If the purpose for live-ball enforcement of this foul is to stop players from drawing unnecessary attention to themselves, wouldn't the more punitive enforcement of disallowing the score be more effective?

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: UNS question
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2017, 08:27:56 AM »
Not sure I agree with the philosophy of "If close, then TD."

If the purpose for live-ball enforcement of this foul is to stop players from drawing unnecessary attention to themselves, wouldn't the more punitive enforcement of disallowing the score be more effective?

I agree.  I've seen officials want to apply that "philosophy" when the leap started from the 1.5 yard line and there was no way he broke the plane.  Loosely translates to "I don't have the guts to make this tough call and take the TD away."

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: UNS question
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2017, 11:43:27 AM »
Loosely translates to "I don't have the guts to make this tough call and take the TD away."

That is 100% a function of the support they get from their "boss," whomever that might be.  I posted the "philosophy" related to this, because I have seen instances where officials have made similar calls, only to be criticized by their coordinator ("That's not the kind of call we want in this league").  They were told the philosophy stated.
Some time has passed since then, so, perhaps, those conditions have changed.  If so, great.  Personally, I'm all in favor of making this call, and, when in question, it is a foul.  That would help stop this stuff, which, in my personal opinion, needs to happen.  But, my opinion doesn't count.

Robert   

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: UNS question
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2017, 12:45:45 PM »
That is 100% a function of the support they get from their "boss," whomever that might be.  I posted the "philosophy" related to this, because I have seen instances where officials have made similar calls, only to be criticized by their coordinator ("That's not the kind of call we want in this league").  They were told the philosophy stated.
Some time has passed since then, so, perhaps, those conditions have changed.  If so, great.  Personally, I'm all in favor of making this call, and, when in question, it is a foul.  That would help stop this stuff, which, in my personal opinion, needs to happen.  But, my opinion doesn't count.

Robert   

Definitely agree that your coordinator has to back you up.