Author Topic: Catch  (Read 1755 times)

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Offline JasonTX

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Catch
« on: July 05, 2022, 11:27:35 PM »
Here is a routine play.  Nothing tricky.

1st and Goal at the B-5.  Time is not an issue.  A10 throws a legal forward pass to airborne A88 in the end zone.  While airborne, A88 has a firm grasp of the ball in the end zone where he is contacted in the air in a manner that causes him to land at the B-1 with the ball no longer in the end zone.  A88 maintains his balance and runs around and is finally tackled for a loss at the B-6.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Catch
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2022, 12:11:57 AM »
Yeah, nothing tricky except the weird distinction in A.R.'s 5-1-3-I and II. 2/G@B-6. Had A88 been down at B-1 it would be a TD.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Catch
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2022, 08:20:50 AM »
Yep, no FWP.  Should have went down at the 1.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Catch
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2022, 09:05:56 AM »
I think y'all are missing the most important thing. AR 5-1-3-I scenario (b) does not say that he goes to the ground. So, with this interpretation, if he gets contacted by an opponent and he lands in the field of play - on his feet, and completes the catch - the ball is dead and he gets progress to the point that he first held/controlled the ball = TD.

But, 5-1-3-II tells us that, if he is NOT contacted by an opponent, then he gets progress to the point where he completes the catch if he is going to the ground while making the catch; otherwise, the ball remains alive and in play if he lands on his feet, completes the catch, and does not go to the ground with his actual effort to complete the catch.

This is a significant change in the interpretation of progress. Before, if he was contacted by an opponent, but remained on his feet after completing the catch in the field of play (not so held that his progress was stopped), the ball remained alive, and progress was determined by where the ball was subsequently declared dead. For 2022, he gets a TD.

That's how I read it. If not sooner, we'll get Shaw to explain this during a meeting in which he'll be participating on July 23. If somebody else gets something sooner, please share.


Offline Kalle

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Re: Catch
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2022, 09:47:02 AM »
AR 5-1-3-I scenario (b)

Ah, so there is a relevant change for this year in this A.R. (I tried to see if the 2022 rule book was available but no dice). This new set of rulings are much more sensible to me.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Catch
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2022, 10:39:09 AM »
Exactly.   TD in 2022.  We have to be aware of the "minor" editorial changes as they have a major impact.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Catch
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2022, 10:50:24 AM »
(I tried to see if the 2022 rule book was available but no dice).

Kalle,
It is not yet on the NCAA Rules site. It is available on the Arbiter/NCAA CFO web site (but, you may not be a member of the NCAA CFO).



Offline Kalle

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Re: Catch
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2022, 10:55:50 AM »
Kalle,
It is not yet on the NCAA Rules site. It is available on the Arbiter/NCAA CFO web site (but, you may not be a member of the NCAA CFO).

Yeah, I don't see any real benefit for a semi-retired Finnish official to pay the CFO fee, although it isn't that much :)

Offline bossman72

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Re: Catch
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2022, 11:28:52 PM »
Ah, so there is a relevant change for this year in this A.R. (I tried to see if the 2022 rule book was available but no dice). This new set of rulings are much more sensible to me.

Call me crazy, but I think the old interp made a little more sense.  The crux of the situation is: are we giving him forward progress or not?  If we are, TD.  If we are not, no TD.

If this happens at the 50 and the receiver gets driven back and spins out of it, we're letting him run and he doesn't get forward progress.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Catch
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2022, 02:57:25 AM »
Call me crazy, but I think the old interp made a little more sense.  The crux of the situation is: are we giving him forward progress or not?  If we are, TD.  If we are not, no TD.

If this happens at the 50 and the receiver gets driven back and spins out of it, we're letting him run and he doesn't get forward progress.

Sure, I could live with not giving a TD whether or not the receiver goes down immediately. I did not like the fact that the previous A.R.'s benefited a player who gave up but not the player who tried harder. Now both are treated equally both at the goal line and at the 50.

Offline Grant - AR

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Re: Catch
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2022, 04:03:40 PM »
Not trying to cheat, but there is a similar play on this year's CFO Exam:

2/goal @ B-8.  A17 throws a pass to A88 who is located just over the team B goal line.  A88 leaps and controls the ball and is then immediately contacted by B22 forcing him back into the field of play at the B-2.  As A88 comes to the ground he stumbles but maintains his balance and possession of the ball.  He then turns and runs towards the EZ but is hit hard at the B-1 and fumbles the ball, which goes forward into and out of the back of the EZ. 

The way I read AR 5-1-3-I, this is also a TD.  Am I wrong here? 

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Catch
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2022, 05:49:15 PM »
Not trying to cheat, but there is a similar play on this year's CFO Exam:

2/goal @ B-8.  A17 throws a pass to A88 who is located just over the team B goal line.  A88 leaps and controls the ball and is then immediately contacted by B22 forcing him back into the field of play at the B-2.  As A88 comes to the ground he stumbles but maintains his balance and possession of the ball.  He then turns and runs towards the EZ but is hit hard at the B-1 and fumbles the ball, which goes forward into and out of the back of the EZ. 

The way I read AR 5-1-3-I, this is also a TD.  Am I wrong here?
That's correct.   I chose TD and got it correct.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Catch
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2022, 06:53:20 PM »
I just wish the rule would have been edited as well.  We have the AR and the Test question that tells us this scenario is a TD, but the rule wasn't edited to reflect that.

5-1-3 Exception 2: When an airborne pass receiver of either team completes a catch
inbounds after an opponent has driven the receiver backward and the ball is
declared dead at the spot of the catch, the forward progress is where the player
gained and maintained firm control of the ball.

I guess with the new AR once he completes the catch after he had been airborne with possession of the ball in the end zone and contacted and forced back into the field of play, we then "declare" the ball dead.