Author Topic: Cedar Park v Lone Star  (Read 13091 times)

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Offline BankerRef

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Cedar Park v Lone Star
« on: December 19, 2015, 01:34:55 PM »
Does anyone else think that should have been ruled a pass and ING rather than a fumble?  Big hit on the R.  Ouch!

Offline TexLJ

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2015, 01:39:32 PM »
I was wondering the same thing...albeit after watching the replay in slow motion.  Nice block by the R. 

Jugster

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2015, 01:41:12 PM »
The Ref was out of position on the play. Looks like he stepped up to get a look at the fumble and got in the way. Not sure if I would have called it a pass considering the QB's position didn't make him much of a passer and couldn't see if he had possession before the flick.

Also the SJ calling a hold on a LB who was defending a screen pass. Isn't his key the guy running down field on the 9 route? Why is his eyes there? I do think he got the call right and saved the crew.

I know this crew is from Houston but do we know if this a 5 man crew +2 or a 7 man crew throughout the year?

Jugster

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 02:10:36 PM »
LJ had the right spot... Not sure why he didn't overrule the HL who didn't get a good look at the spot at all.

hurts to miss that one.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2015, 02:26:03 PM »
I'm trying to figure out why the F and S are spotting the ball on long plays.  H and L still have forward progress all the way to the 2.  F and S should stay deep and keep the cushion.

Offline Kalle

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2015, 02:30:51 PM »
I'm trying to figure out why the F and S are spotting the ball on long plays.  H and L still have forward progress all the way to the 2.  F and S should stay deep and keep the cushion.

If this wasn't a regular 7-man crew then I think it is a common mistake, the short wings think that the deep wings help on spots and the deep wings like to help out.

Offline NTXRef

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2015, 02:35:14 PM »
LJ had the right spot... Not sure why he didn't overrule the HL who didn't get a good look at the spot at all.

hurts to miss that one.

I agree.  Ball carrier was clearly on his side of the pile then HL calls for the ball and LJ just gave it up.

Huge play on 4th down.

Onsidekick

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2015, 04:46:12 PM »
Does anyone else think that should have been ruled a pass and ING rather than a fumble?  Big hit on the R.  Ouch!

It should have been ruled backwards pass.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2015, 06:31:02 PM »
It went forward.

I'm ruling that a fumble. But I'm making that ruling from at least 5 yards behind where the R was.

Offline 940AC

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2015, 10:10:44 PM »
I'm trying to figure out why the F and S are spotting the ball on long plays.  H and L still have forward progress all the way to the 2.  F and S should stay deep and keep the cushion.

Exactly! This should be covered in pre-game. 

Offline HOULJ

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2015, 10:05:53 AM »
Jugster

Also the SJ calling a hold on a LB who was defending a screen pass. Isn't his key the guy running down field on the 9 route? Why is his eyes there? I do think he got the call right and saved the crew.

The FJ made the call and I am assuming that he followed his keys (Man, Area, Ball). The mechanics manual also says be prepared to help when needed.

The receiver out of the back field would have been the Line Judges key, but the back is running straight at him. He would never see the hold.   

Offline HOULJ

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2015, 10:14:16 AM »
Where does it indicate in any manual that a deep wing can never get a spot?

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2015, 01:16:37 PM »
I think there are many situations where the deep wing has to get the spot, but the H and L need to be hauling rear down field to take over the spot.  On a long pass, there is no way the H and L can get the spot, impossible since they are hanging at the los longer than in 5 man.  But, when a long pass is seen, they have to moving down field very quickly.  The deep guys get the spot, and the H and L take over in those situations.  On normal running plays and shorter pass plays, sure, the H and L have the spot all the way. 

I think too many times we see the H and L on long plays hanging at the los and not getting down field quickly.

Offline goodgrr

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2015, 01:37:13 PM »
The UK 7 man wing mechanics say the following for long runs:

"Occasionally, the deep official may be in a better position than you to cover the ball carrier, in which case he may be the one to declare the ball dead and mark the forward progress. However, this should not be normal practice - keep up with the play!"

Sums it up well I thought.

Offline mccormicw

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2015, 07:46:16 PM »
Clip of defensive holding on screen play https://youtu.be/fGC25qsMgCI

Offline mccormicw

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2015, 08:09:59 PM »
Looks to me like ball went forward initially and hit a foot and bounced backwards.

https://youtu.be/F1cOr0-yh3Y
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 08:12:28 PM by mccormicw »

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2015, 08:49:08 PM »
Clip of defensive holding on screen play https://youtu.be/fGC25qsMgCI
  Coach out past the numbers.  I think RR would say foul on the coach.  Can we not walk him back to the sideline to have this discussion?

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 08:51:55 PM »
In the first video, why is that coach being allowed to throw a temper tantrum out between the hash and the numbers? Even if he wants an explanation, there is no reason for him to be that far out and there was absolutely no attempt to bring him back to the sideline. Anybody who has seen Redding's videos about coaches' behavior the last couple years knows this is exactly what we're supposed to be eliminating.

But good job replaying the down and not awarding an automatic first down since the foul was behind the line of scrimmage.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2015, 05:08:31 AM »
I don't think his actions deserve a flag.  R should have run past him to the sideline.  He can't argue with the R from there if the R is on the sideline.   Once he gets to the sideline give him explanation and get away.  If he follows back onto the field then you might flag him.

Offline BlindZebra

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2015, 10:31:14 AM »
I don't think his actions deserve a flag.  R should have run past him to the sideline.  He can't argue with the R from there if the R is on the sideline.   Once he gets to the sideline give him explanation and get away.  If he follows back onto the field then you might flag him.

Should the R have come to the coach in the first place?  Why are we explaining a defensive holding?  Seems pretty self explanatory.  If he wants to argue and vent about something as simple as this it should cost him a time out.

Offline mccormicw

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2015, 12:06:08 PM »
I have always been taught to "walk" the coach to the sideline.  That may happen after I drop a flag for him being on the field but I am going to "walk" him to the sideline.  I am sure I am not the first one to do so but i once told a coach we can discuss it on the sideline and he told me he wasnt going to the sideline.  I told him as I started walking, if you want to discuss it with me, I will be at the sideline.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2015, 01:06:53 PM »
6 years old, so I don't know if this link still works.  This is how to take a coach to the sidelines.  Also about 70 pounds ago. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64yUCqrhFU

Offline Welpe

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2015, 01:13:46 PM »
Boy knickers sure look weird now. Great example, Doc.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2015, 01:28:33 PM »
Should the R have come to the coach in the first place?  Why are we explaining a defensive holding?  Seems pretty self explanatory.  If he wants to argue and vent about something as simple as this it should cost him a time out.

That's fair. My biggest issue isn't that there was no flag, but that there was no attempt to stop the coach's behavior. The coach seemed to dictate that situation instead of the officials staying in charge.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Cedar Park v Lone Star
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2015, 04:05:41 PM »
Boy knickers sure look weird now. Great example, Doc.
Dude has done 1 thing right in his 60 years of officiating and now you are gonna make that melon of his even larger.   :D