Author Topic: Points Overhaul  (Read 32393 times)

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Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #50 on: February 29, 2012, 05:26:02 PM »
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Are you of the opinion that NO ONE with 4-5 years of experience could hack it at that level?

This is the exact same thing we ALL said when we were at that level. It isn't that "no one" can handle it, but that in general, its better to not show up at a game with 20K there and have that be one of your first varsity --- or first 11 man varsity -- games. Make no mistake -- that has happened in the past and not with the best of results.

I talked at length last season during a game we were observing with a guy that that came in the same year I have. We've worked together some and he does a good job. He was able to get on a pretty good crew his 3rd year and ended up in a first round playoff game in Texas Stadium. The game was a disaster -- he had TWO inadvertent whistles, the line judge badly missed a 4th down spot that forced a change of possession and effectively ended the game, and neither coach wanted anything to do with that crew again. Honestly, they probably only made about half a dozen mistakes the whole day, but they were all big and most were at the end. My buddy admitted he wasn't ready at the time.

Often it isn't a situation where anyone is keeping you or others down; its more of a situation where they don't want to put you in a position where you are likely to fail.

Bottom line (and I still have to live by this myself): BE PATIENT. Texas football is going to be around for a LONG time and chances are you will be too. In about 5-7 years, you will be writing the post I'm writing with much the same info to someone with 3-4 years of experience, wondering why he hasn't advanced as quickly.

Just as an aside: its a generally accepted view that 5 years of industry experience is what one needs in most professions to do their job at a level of excellence. That's roughly 10,000 hours of work. We work about a third of the year and not really full time, but including meetings, training, games, etc. you end up with about a thousand hours a year or so. Give or take. Anyway, it takes 10 years or so (maybe 12) to reach that 10K level in football. As someone who's right at that level, and has been there in my profession and in officiating other sports, I'd say there is a lot of merit to that view.

Offline Welpe

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #51 on: February 29, 2012, 10:37:46 PM »
Thank you for the perspective, Joe. It is greatly appreciated.

Ed Belding

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2012, 03:15:25 PM »
....
To me, the best idea not adopted is to allow 1 point for HS subvarsity games. When I needed game points a few years ago, I worked a lot of 7th grade games -- 6 minute quarters and 3 games a night was a cinch. More points and money than the Thursday night JV games -- which I worked anyway -- but not as good for training and experience.

I am joining the discussion late, but this idea has merit.  If a new guy wants to learn to call varsity high school football, the best preparation is calling 9th grade, sophomore and JV games – particularly at the 3A, 4A and 5A level.  Giving these high school sub-varsity assignments 1 point is a good idea.  They are clearly more valuable to the development of newer officials than 7th and 8th grade games.     

Good idea!

Offline clearwall

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2012, 09:20:52 PM »
This is the exact same thing we ALL said when we were at that level. It isn't that "no one" can handle it, but that in general, its better to not show up at a game with 20K there and have that be one of your first varsity --- or first 11 man varsity -- games. Make no mistake -- that has happened in the past and not with the best of results.

Obviously you missed my point entirely and are now putting words in my mouth. I never said throw a 2nd yr guy in a 20k attended game. Regardless, the original question was asked, I answered it. If you dont like the truth, so be it, but just know the question will continue to be asked until some of those with the ability to do something about it finally do.

Offline allen

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2012, 02:27:31 PM »
I like the changes!

I work my butt off every single season.  However, the games needed for D1/D2 don't really affect me as I'm in the Amarillo Chapter and have been doing varsity games from my rookie year on and I think I already meet the need for D1. (currently a few points away from d2)

I have been over the max points on scrimmages and educational points every year.  I do 3-5 spring scrimmages and 4-7 pre-season scrimmages and go all the way to San Antonio and El Paso for camps and make the state meeting all over the State.  I also do a TON of sub varsity.  (mondays, Tuesdays, and 3 game sets on thursdays as well as Clock/Chains for the college games)

I love the game and want to get better every single year.  It's nice to get some additional validation for the efforts.

Offline Cowman52

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2012, 06:49:02 AM »
Not sure where but, think that 40?? Varsity games is in the deal and 60 for div 1, but there is a sentence that chap board can put you where you need?to be to make thongs kind of mesh.
My numbers don't mesh at all, less than 600 points and nearly 30 yrs, I know of at least 10 where points went away and seems like there was a couple of years where points did not count

CenTexTM

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2012, 07:28:42 AM »
Not sure where but, think that 40?? Varsity games is in the deal and 60 for div 1, but there is a sentence that chap board can put you where you need?to be to make thongs kind of mesh.
My numbers don't mesh at all, less than 600 points and nearly 30 yrs, I know of at least 10 where points went away and seems like there was a couple of years where points did not count

I never thought I'd say this, but can we go back to talking about TASO patches instead of mesh thongs?  nAnA

Online ETXZebra

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2012, 10:24:51 AM »
Points Overhaul
« on: February 20, 2012, 08:36:05 PM »
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We got the word from our chapter secretary today on the TASO Board making some major changes to the points system.

The highlights:

No cap on education points.

The limit on scrimmage points has been removed.

And the biggie: Varsity game requirements to make D2 and D1 have been removed.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2012, 11:39:02 PM »
I concur with ETXZebra.  That is the information that I received as well.

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2012, 08:19:03 AM »
We were briefed on this months ago.

Offline fencewire

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2012, 10:03:53 AM »
thread about the same thing in February...

http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=9044.0

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2012, 12:12:05 PM »
360 is the same number for Division II as its been for a while. 600 for D1 is new, as it used to be 660. I also did not hear about the change, though I did hear the required number of games was dropped for each.

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2012, 12:13:44 PM »
Whoever merged these two topics - why?!
They were merged because I chose to merge them. Any more questions?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 12:15:39 PM by Rulesman »
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Points Restructure?
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2012, 03:43:08 PM »
Who is we?  Chapter? State?

San Antonio and well, Texas of course.

Offline copedaddy

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2012, 08:49:44 PM »
I think there should be a Division 1A for guys that have reached 2000 points. Way too many D-1's as it stands now. ^no

Offline Welpe

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2012, 10:24:47 AM »


 If TASO truly has changed to where there is no education max (still can't get an official confirmation on that from anyone associated with TASO or the board) I think that is a good change.

The information I posted months ago came directly from Tommy Moore, the TASO FB Vice President and Executive Secretary of the Houston chapter.

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This system could also possibly standardize the Federation and NCAA people.  Seems like guys who transfer from out of state get screwed the first few years they are here...

That is something that'll never happen, each state does things differently. The association I came from in California had 5 ratings from Probationary to Championship official and those were determined soley by ratings from your fellow officials. Other states have no ranking systems and only register their officials.

When I moved here, I found the process of getting points to be fair. I know of others that did as well and were not screwed.

Offline TxBJ

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #66 on: August 07, 2012, 11:54:19 AM »
Runswith, I'm not trying to make this a fight, but let me explain the way you are coming across, which might help explain some folks' reaction.  Above, you call someone's response an example of complacency.  Yet below are paraphrases of some of your comments in this other threads that seem to indicate complacency on your part and have led some to see you as a complainer:

  • I can't do anything about chapter leadership.
  • I don't want to read manuals; I just want someone to provide me a single-document summary of all changes/decisions that have been made.
  • I don't want to email TASO leadership because it didn't work for me in the past.
  • I don't want to call TASO leadership and discuss the problems that I see.
  • I don't want to ask my district director questions or make him aware of the problems that I see, even though he was at my chapter meeting last night.
  • No matter how many people explain that my chapter should be providing this information (along with TASO) I'm not gonna listen.

As I said before, I don't completely disagree with some of your comments on communication.  I agree that TASO could and should communicate better.  However, you can't post something here and expect suddenly it will be done.  I'm sure some of the TASO board read posts on this site but contacting them directly with your concerns is the only way to be sure they are aware of your concerns.

Do you receive the email messages that TASO sends out?  One issue is that many people don't because their email providers have at some point kicked a message back to TASO.  When that happens TASO no longer sends email to that address due to anti-span requirements.  That is one reason communication from your chapter leadership is extremely important.  If you are not getting the email messages, check to be sure TASO has your correct email address and ask them to "reset" it to start sending you messages again.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2012, 04:53:27 PM »
Runswith, I'm not trying to make this a fight, but let me explain the way you are coming across, which might help explain some folks' reaction.  Above, you call someone's response an example of complacency.  Yet below are paraphrases of some of your comments in this other threads that seem to indicate complacency on your part and have led some to see you as a complainer:

  • I can't do anything about chapter leadership.
  • I don't want to read manuals; I just want someone to provide me a single-document summary of all changes/decisions that have been made.
  • I don't want to email TASO leadership because it didn't work for me in the past.
  • I don't want to call TASO leadership and discuss the problems that I see.
  • I don't want to ask my district director questions or make him aware of the problems that I see, even though he was at my chapter meeting last night.
  • No matter how many people explain that my chapter should be providing this information (along with TASO) I'm not gonna listen.

As I said before, I don't completely disagree with some of your comments on communication.  I agree that TASO could and should communicate better.  However, you can't post something here and expect suddenly it will be done.  I'm sure some of the TASO board read posts on this site but contacting them directly with your concerns is the only way to be sure they are aware of your concerns.

Do you receive the email messages that TASO sends out?  One issue is that many people don't because their email providers have at some point kicked a message back to TASO.  When that happens TASO no longer sends email to that address due to anti-span requirements.  That is one reason communication from your chapter leadership is extremely important.  If you are not getting the email messages, check to be sure TASO has your correct email address and ask them to "reset" it to start sending you messages again.

Well put.  Runs, just pick up the phone and call your district director.  They can answer almost all of your questions, and that's why they make the big bucks.   LOL LOL LOL  If you cannot listen to the guys here, whose sage advice you probably need to heed, then confirm for yourself.  Many of the posters here are very well connect and some are even in leadership positions within TASO.  This is mainly a place to discuss rules and bitch a bit about our sorry lot in life.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #68 on: August 07, 2012, 05:37:04 PM »
 LOL  You obviously don't know me very well.

Offline TexDoc

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #69 on: August 07, 2012, 05:43:52 PM »
Yes and no.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 06:06:32 PM by TexDoc »

Offline Welpe

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Points Overhaul
« Reply #70 on: August 07, 2012, 10:01:48 PM »
Welpe, I never have argued the information didn't come from a credible source.  As I have said, it should come directly from a credible source.  You posted on here.

I'm just a lowly zebra in the trenches in my chapter. Where do you think I got the information? I posted it here as a way of sharing the news with my fellow Texas officials that post on Refstripes. Not as an official press release from TASO.

You wanted confirmation. If you want a notarized copy...well...you're gonna have a bad time.

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"That is something that'll never happen."  Statements like that are the epitome of complacency.

It's not being complacent, it's being realistic. There are far too many autonomous high school officiating organizations for it to be a realistic goal to bring them in under some "national standard".

Each state chooses how to run their high school athletics and officiating within their organization. They do not report to anyone, not even the NFHS.

Each state chooses which mechanics and rules in each sport to use. Not only do I see that changing any time in the future, I don't think it should be that way. Otherwise we wouldn't be playing football under NCAA rules and we wouldn't be using TASO mechanics which is superior to NFHS mechanics IMO.

Offline Neckbone

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2012, 11:30:17 AM »
I came in late on the discussion but would like to share a few things.
I started as a freshman in college.  It was easy money and fun and I learned from some great guys who were patient with me.  We could not even count points for the first two years as we considered "trainees".
I remember being a very young D3 and thinking I could do any and all 4A and 5A games and the old, fat, D1's really should retire.  I am sure D3's still think the same thing and they could be correct.
I went to every hell hole in the state as I worked in Lubbock, Austin, San Antonio, and East TX chapters.  I learned from each of the chapters and have enjoyed some of the friendships to this very day.  I have worked the lowest levels and had every 0-9 vs. 0-9 for years.  I also screwed up every call possible in some form or fashion.  I have mentors who listened, corrected, and I have tried to learn from them and correct my mistakes.
I am sure I still make plenty of mistakes but I try to do it while hustling and letting plays happen as opposed to making things happen.
There will never be a perfect system to keep new guys happy but some patience and willingness to learn will hopefully keep them around long enough to really enjoy what we do.

mbyron

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2012, 11:34:18 AM »
I started as a freshman in college.

I had some advance placement, but I started college as a freshman, too. I think almost everybody did.
 LOL

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Points Overhaul
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2012, 11:54:17 AM »
+1 Neckbone
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi