Author Topic: Suggestion Box  (Read 24009 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2019, 11:27:59 AM »
I'm off to sunny Florida, while ole' Dell is not. You should see the new rules any day now posted on NFHS.org. Hope you'll enjoy some, sure you won't enjoy all. While watching the New England Invitational in Florida (some still call it the Super Ball), I'm sure I will in the deep minority. Hope you guys all enjoy.

 aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd.........? aWaRd?

Offline HLinNC

  • *
  • Posts: 3491
  • FAN REACTION: +133/-24
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2019, 09:16:09 AM »
Geez Ralph, surely by now you've gotten one of those new fangled phones that can access the Interwebs in your pocket or I dunno, an iPad or other tablet device that is much more man-portable.

Enjoy the sun-n-fun. 

Anybody but the Pats.

Offline riffraft

  • *
  • Posts: 305
  • FAN REACTION: +18/-19
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2019, 12:56:00 PM »
I'm off to sunny Florida, while ole' Dell is not. You should see the new rules any day now posted on NFHS.org. Hope you'll enjoy some, sure you won't enjoy all. While watching the New England Invitational in Florida (some still call it the Super Ball), I'm sure I will in the deep minority. Hope you guys all enjoy.

 aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd.........? aWaRd?

Well the Volleyball and field hockey rule changes came out yesterday and today. Still no football.

Offline CalhounLJ

  • *
  • Posts: 2940
  • FAN REACTION: +134/-1004
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2019, 01:43:05 PM »
Patience grasshopper. Excellence takes time. *


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2019, 09:18:17 AM »
I haven't heard anything. I will let you know when I do. We Mainers don't recognize Ground Hog Day. When the Red Sox Equipment truck leaves Boston, that tells us Spring is not far away. The duck boat journey through the city of Boston, celebrating the most resent victory of The New England Invitational, is also a barometer!!

SINCE THE TURN OF THE CENTUARY........

PATRIOTS     aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd

RED SOX         aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd aWaRd

CELTICS        aWaRd

           BRUINS               aWaRd

...Sorry, guys, I couldn't resist  :puke: :puke:!!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 09:41:46 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline ncwingman

  • *
  • Posts: 1269
  • FAN REACTION: +72/-13
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2019, 09:48:17 AM »





 nAnA

Offline Curious

  • *
  • Posts: 1313
  • FAN REACTION: +36/-50
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2019, 10:17:19 AM »
Ralph, two questions (forgive me if I have missed threads on these):

1. I know at some point "post new rules", you reminded us that the NFHS does NOT provide for a defensive "match-up" accommodation by holding the snap when the offense subs at the "last second". Could you give us the Committee's rationale for not wanting to give us this option between downs?

2. Also, why does the Committee continue to reject the "spike" from the shot-gun/pistol formation?

Thanks

Offline Ralph Damren

  • *
  • Posts: 4654
  • FAN REACTION: +864/-28
  • SEE IT-THINK IT-CALL IT
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2019, 07:38:22 AM »
Ralph, two questions (forgive me if I have missed threads on these):

1. I know at some point "post new rules", you reminded us that the NFHS does NOT provide for a defensive "match-up" accommodation by holding the snap when the offense subs at the "last second". Could you give us the Committee's rationale for not wanting to give us this option between downs?

2. Also, why does the Committee continue to reject the "spike" from the shot-gun/pistol formation?

Thanks


(1) This was never addressed during the 25" clock era, and may be discussed now that we've entered the 40" clock arena.

(2) The same two basic reasons that that were there in 1995 : 1. QB would have expanded vision from gun which could impact his decision to spike/pass; 2. pop-up snap may result in spike to save yardage. While it still appears often on proposals, it lost some luster a couple of years ago, when it was learned that the NFL doesn't allow spiking from the shotgun for the same reasons. When a coach moans that he doesn't run any plays from under-center snaps, just remind him of the victory formation.   

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2019, 09:43:04 AM »
(1) This was never addressed during the 25" clock era, and may be discussed now that we've entered the 40" clock arena.

(2) The same two basic reasons that that were there in 1995 : 1. QB would have expanded vision from gun which could impact his decision to spike/pass; 2. pop-up snap may result in spike to save yardage. While it still appears often on proposals, it lost some luster a couple of years ago, when it was learned that the NFL doesn't allow spiking from the shotgun for the same reasons. When a coach moans that he doesn't run any plays from under-center snaps, just remind him of the victory formation.   
(1) has nothing to do with which play clock is used. It's just as much an issue with 25 as it is 40/25. People think they are related because the NCAA instituted both around the same time. I think it would be a good change though. Even if the sub isn't late in the play clock it still gives the defense a chance to match up if they try to sub and then run a play quickly. I've never had a situation where it resulted in a DOG but it is possible if the sub is late.

Offline bama_stripes

  • *
  • Posts: 2936
  • FAN REACTION: +115/-27
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2019, 07:06:01 AM »
(1) has nothing to do with which play clock is used. It's just as much an issue with 25 as it is 40/25. People think they are related because the NCAA instituted both around the same time. I think it would be a good change though. Even if the sub isn't late in the play clock it still gives the defense a chance to match up if they try to sub and then run a play quickly. I've never had a situation where it resulted in a DOG but it is possible if the sub is late.

How many HS teams would actually have the ability to match up?  Most of the ones around here wouldn’t — they already have many of their starters playing both ways.

This would be a lot of trouble for 4- or 5-man crews to officiate for very little benefit.

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2019, 09:04:49 AM »
How many HS teams would actually have the ability to match up?  Most of the ones around here wouldn’t — they already have many of their starters playing both ways.

This would be a lot of trouble for 4- or 5-man crews to officiate for very little benefit.

I don't think it would be that hard to officiate. The wings on the offensive side would be able to recognize if the offense subs between downs and can communicate that to the R. The R will often notice as well. Even if a team uses the same starters on both sides, they still may match up if the offense runs a power set for short yardage. They may want to bring in an extra big guy or two rather than having 4 DBs.

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 2116
  • FAN REACTION: +301/-25
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2019, 10:20:32 AM »
(1) has nothing to do with which play clock is used. It's just as much an issue with 25 as it is 40/25. People think they are related because the NCAA instituted both around the same time. I think it would be a good change though. Even if the sub isn't late in the play clock it still gives the defense a chance to match up if they try to sub and then run a play quickly. I've never had a situation where it resulted in a DOG but it is possible if the sub is late.

I think Kalle posted somewhere that the 40 sec clock was implemented in 2008, but the sub matchup rule was implemented in 2004 in NCAA

Offline scrounge

  • *
  • Posts: 228
  • FAN REACTION: +35/-23
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2019, 11:35:46 AM »
How many HS teams would actually have the ability to match up?  Most of the ones around here wouldn’t — they already have many of their starters playing both ways.

This would be a lot of trouble for 4- or 5-man crews to officiate for very little benefit.

I vehemently agree with this. There just aren't the large, specialized platoons in the vast majority of high schools. This is a solution in search of a problem, adding unnecessarily complexity and pre-snap burden for very little benefit. Plus, imagine new officials in a JV game trying to think of all the things they need to watch, and then we add this on them? No, it's not worth it. Even at varsity, why? I don't see the need for this rule, other than 'be like college'.

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2019, 02:24:44 PM »
I think Kalle posted somewhere that the 40 sec clock was implemented in 2008, but the sub matchup rule was implemented in 2004 in NCAA
I started officiating college in 2008 and I'm pretty sure both came in after I started. I started working umpire in 2011 and I know the iron cross started no earlier than that. If the substitution rule existed we weren't using that mechanic to communicate it.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2019, 03:27:39 PM »
I started officiating college in 2008 and I'm pretty sure both came in after I started. I started working umpire in 2011 and I know the iron cross started no earlier than that. If the substitution rule existed we weren't using that mechanic to communicate it.

Definitely instituted in NCAA in 2008.  Anybody remember the 15-second play clock on NCAA kickoffs in 2007?  What a pain in the behind.  Lasted one season.  in 2007, we were already supposed to keep team A from snapping the ball if they substituted, to let Team B get subs into position.  Don't think we had the "iron cross" signal that season.  Can't recall when we started using that, but I can do some research.  Like Magician, I'm sure it wasn't before 2011, and it may have been 2012.

***After further review, the "t" signal (iron cross) was prescribed in a CFO bulletin 6/25/2011.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 06:30:37 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3307
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2019, 02:03:02 AM »
I started officiating college in 2008 and I'm pretty sure both came in after I started. I started working umpire in 2011 and I know the iron cross started no earlier than that. If the substitution rule existed we weren't using that mechanic to communicate it.

If you don't believe me, go and check the 2004 and 2008 rule book changes :)

From page 7 of the 2004 book (Committee Action for 2004):

"3-5-2-e Snapping the ball no longer necessary when Team A rushes quickly to line of scrimmage to create a defensive disadvantage"

From page 6 of the 2008 book (Committee Action for 2008):

"2-2-4, 2-29-2, 3-2-4, 4-1-5 40/25-second play clock system instituted"

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2019, 07:02:13 AM »
"3-5-2-e Snapping the ball no longer necessary when Team A rushes quickly to line of scrimmage to create a defensive disadvantage"
What does this mean?

Offline Kalle

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3307
  • FAN REACTION: +109/-35
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2019, 07:18:13 AM »
What does this mean?

From 2000 to 2003 it was a dead ball foul when team A snapped the ball. The 2004 change was to take away the foul and have the officials prevent the snap.

Offline Magician

  • *
  • Posts: 1084
  • FAN REACTION: +257/-8
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2019, 09:37:02 AM »
From 2000 to 2003 it was a dead ball foul when team A snapped the ball. The 2004 change was to take away the foul and have the officials prevent the snap.

It also sounds like that is a different rule too. It talks about rushing to the line. The current substitution rule is much broader than that (any substitution made by A will allow B to match up). Maybe that's what changed in 2011 and introduced the iron cross mechanic.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 3406
  • FAN REACTION: +161/-143
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Suggestion Box
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2019, 09:59:46 AM »
It also sounds like that is a different rule too. It talks about rushing to the line. The current substitution rule is much broader than that (any substitution made by A will allow B to match up). Maybe that's what changed in 2011 and introduced the iron cross mechanic.

The part about "rushing to the line" was the primary rule until 2016, when they added the broader language to include any time A substituted.  "...rushing to the line" is still there, but, while still valid, that language is somewhat obviated by the "...any time..." language.