ok got it. scrimmage kicks are handled the same and any touching in the expanded neutral zone is ignored...and if a muff that occurs beyond the expanded neutral zone is recovered by K behind the neutral zone the ball can be advanced and irregardless of any yards gained or not, it is a first down for K. Any ball recovered by K after an R muff beyond the expanded neutral zone is also new series of downs for K, even if the line to gain was not crossed.
Derek, you seem to be working hard on understanding rules, which NOBODY has ever accused of being simple and clear cut. A couple of suggestions that might help reduce the inherent confusion.
The NFHS "Kicking game" is somewhat of a game within a game, and although circumstances are understandably similar, how they're handled can be significantly different. What applies for the "goose" may be entirely different for the "gander", and studying each is best done separately.
That "difference" is even more significant, relating to different rule codes. NFHS, NCAA and NFL are related, but different and unique worlds, that have independent and different characteristics, skill sets, maturity levels and objectives. Although most of the differences, that number in the hundreds, are subtle there are some stark differences that can easily confuse. It's not a question of which approach is necessarily "better", as much as it is the "differences" require adjusted approach.
Unfortunately, a majority of spectators (coaches and players) are more familiar with what they see on TV than what they actually deal with in reality (which is why patience and a willingness to explain differences are such important tools). If you haven't been exposed to the "
Redding Study guides" (available thru NASO/Referee Magazine) you might want to check them out.
Their format is entirely different that Rule/Case Book study, in that individual rules and detailed explanations and reasoning are presented together, with numerous practical examples.
Unfortunately, Rules knowledge is a never ending quest, because as soon as you feel really comfortable, they're going to change, or even reverse, something you're finally become comfortable with.