Author Topic: Legal Jersey  (Read 42185 times)

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Offline TXMike

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Legal Jersey
« on: March 07, 2016, 01:24:39 PM »
Is this jersey legal under NFHS rules?  (Attached)

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 01:39:41 PM »
1-5-1c(4) : "the body of the number shall be.....the same solid color(s) as the jersey with a minimum of one border that is at least 1/4 inch in with of a single solid CONTRASTING color." Looks like it meets NFHS specs unless inches are bigger in Texas! :)

                 MAINE INCH =_____

TEXAS INCH = ________________________

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 8]

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2016, 01:50:31 PM »
I disagree with my esteemed friend from Maine.  While he is correct about the 1/4" contrast, the numbers are not the same solid color as the jersey, nor a continuous color that contrasts with the jersey (1-5-c-4-a,b).

The numbers have a pattern, which is not legal.

Offline Kevin Durst

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2016, 02:11:55 PM »
I disagree with my esteemed friend from Maine.  While he is correct about the 1/4" contrast, the numbers are not the same solid color as the jersey, nor a continuous color that contrasts with the jersey (1-5-c-4-a,b).

The numbers have a pattern, which is not legal.


You have to click on the picture to enlarge it.  Until you do you can't really tell that the numbers have a pattern in them.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 02:31:17 PM »
1 inch in Maine is the equivalent of .0000345 of an inch in Texas.  Source:  Stephen F. Austin Guide to Measurement Conversion, circa 1836.


But the jersey...talk about major difference...
Apparently in Fed the contract has to be in the border while in NCAA the contrast has to be in the body of the number without even considering the contrast of the border

Offline KWH

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 03:37:52 PM »
I disagree with my esteemed friend from Maine.  While he is correct about the 1/4" contrast, the numbers are not the same solid color as the jersey, nor a continuous color that contrasts with the jersey (1-5-c-4-a,b).

The numbers have a pattern, which is not legal.

I agree with Coach Joe - Illegal as per  1-5-1c(4)a,b 
The body of the numbers are not continuous nor are they solid.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2016, 03:47:19 PM »
Do you think it is complying with the intent of the rule?  Is it giving the wearing team a competitive advantage?

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2016, 03:58:17 PM »
Do you think it is complying with the intent of the rule?  Is it giving the wearing team a competitive advantage?
Agree you can't determine the legality without blowing up the picture. By the strictest definition of the rule: not legal.
Competitive advantage? No.
Complying with the intent of the rule? As the Eagles used to sing "Take it to the limit one more time." Isn't that what football coaches are paid to do?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 03:59:49 PM by Rulesman »
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Offline VALJ

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2016, 04:28:17 PM »
If they have other jerseys that contrast with the opposing team's, make them change. If not, play the game, and tell your commissioner/assigner, so they can notify the state.

"Coach, with those jerseys you're wearing, we could have some trouble getting numbers for you.  We'll do the best we can, though."

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2016, 04:29:03 PM »
Do you think it is complying with the intent of the rule?  Is it giving the wearing team a competitive advantage?
A competitive advantage based on the pattern in the numbers?  No.

But it makes it hell for the statisticians!

Offline TXMike

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2016, 04:34:43 PM »
HUH?????  How can the number be harder to see like this than if it had the same border and just had the jersey color inside the border?   Wouldn't that be just as difficult?

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2016, 06:54:28 PM »
HUH?????  How can the number be harder to see like this than if it had the same border and just had the jersey color inside the border? 
Believe it or not, yes.  From the press box, a solid number is easier to see than one with a pattern.  I'll admit, I hate numbers the same color as a jersey, as the 1/4" border is not enough to make it easy.  But adding a pattern to the number makes it even worse.

I would love to see the NFHS make the numbers be a distinct, contrasting color to the jersey, as does the NCAA.  But until someone from the press box gets a number of votes on the rules committee, I can't see it being high on the agenda.

Offline Curious

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2016, 07:12:09 AM »
From the picture, it doesn't look too bad - and at least the number itself is "legal".

I was reviewing a Hudl video from earlier this season during which a player was wearing "00".  He wore it all year (our crew never saw this team); but nobody seems to have corrected the situation. (I even wrote the assigner for the League)
??? hEaDbAnG :!#

Offline TXMike

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2016, 07:36:48 AM »
1-5-1c(4) : "the body of the number shall be.....the same solid color(s) as the jersey with a minimum of one border that is at least 1/4 inch in with of a single solid CONTRASTING color."
  I am going to go out on a limb here and say that this rule is really not enforced in NFHS games...  I found this collection of HS uniforms, none of which seem to fit this specification http://www.maxpreps.com/news/EkEj8YO_y0yss4iHqTpBsw/ten-unique-high-school-football-uniforms.htm

and this  http://www.complex.com/sneakers/2012/09/the-25-best-high-school-football-uniforms


and this  http://www.coloradoan.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2015/11/04/football-jersey-rankings/75166122/

Does anyone know why the rule says the number should be the same color as the jersey?

Online Ralph Damren

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2016, 07:58:54 AM »
I didn't realize you could enlarge things until you guys told me I could tiphat:.

Once I did that ,I did realize that the jersey was illegal tiphat:.

I realize I owe all of you an apology for not knowing this earlier. tiphat:

TXMike - you should change the word "should" to "could" as that would be only one alternative.

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 08:28:37 AM »
  I am going to go out on a limb here and say that this rule is really not enforced in NFHS games...  I found this collection of HS uniforms, none of which seem to fit this specification http://www.maxpreps.com/news/EkEj8YO_y0yss4iHqTpBsw/ten-unique-high-school-football-uniforms.htm
Went through this batch.  About 2/3 of those uniforms are illegal.

I used to be head of research for the company that owned Russell Athletic.  At the time, we were the largest supplier of high school football uniforms in the country.  When the uniform rules were being changed in the early 2000's, we went to meet with the NFHS and had the original rule changes "adapted".  As a whole, the rule changes were known in the industry as the "Miami Rule", based on the hideous things being worn by the University of Miami, pushed by Nike.

Many of these new "camo" type designs would not have even been possible under old manufacturing techniques.  They are now possible because of "sublimated printing", a process of dying the fabric which is very similar to a giant ink jet printer.  But just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD.

The current NFHS rule on numbers says:

The body of the number shall be either
a) a continuous color(s) contrasting with the jersey color, or
b) the same solid color(s) as the jersey with a minimum of one border that is at least 1/4-inch in width of a single solid contrasting color.


I think they should just drop the b) option, and the number issue would be fixed.

Offline bossman72

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2016, 08:57:57 AM »
Do you think it is complying with the intent of the rule?  Is it giving the wearing team a competitive advantage?
It's tough for us to see the numbers.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 09:18:19 AM »
The current NFHS rule on numbers says:

The body of the number shall be either
a) a continuous color(s) contrasting with the jersey color, or
b) the same solid color(s) as the jersey with a minimum of one border that is at least 1/4-inch in width of a single solid contrasting color.


I think they should just drop the b) option, and the number issue would be fixed.
  Thanks for the clarification on the rule. The way it was written originally above led me to believe it had to be a color that matched the jersey.

I guess we will have to employ the Steve Shaw test for visibility....  http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25060943/college-football-rules-face-looming-technology-question

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2016, 09:38:52 AM »
Unfortunately, One of mankind's most consistent, and dumbest habits is insisting on tinkering with things that are going along really well, with dopey, immaterial adjustments, until they ultimately screw up and/or ruin what they were previously so happy with.

Offline bigjohn

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 10:34:44 AM »
is this one legal?



Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 10:42:34 AM »
is this one legal?



No.

Is it a solid color same as the jersey? No.
Is it a continuous color? No.

Illegal.

Am I stopping a game for it?  Not a chance, but it should be reported to the state.

Offline bigjohn

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2016, 11:47:04 AM »
Thanks AB, that was my understanding as well.

Offline KWH

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 10:55:45 PM »
We have a school up hear in the Portland Area (I'm sure they are not the first) but they have written in there Uniform Supplier Contract that if for any reason the jerseys, pant, or other products are found to be non-compliant with current NFHS Rules as of the date they are manufactured, the Uniform supplier shall reimburse the school the entire amount of the purchase plus an additional 25% penalty.

I would think if every school were to follow suit it would put a damper on these snake oil salesman.

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Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2016, 07:50:34 AM »
We have a school up hear in the Portland Area (I'm sure they are not the first) but they have written in there Uniform Supplier Contract that if for any reason the jerseys, pant, or other products are found to be non-compliant with current NFHS Rules as of the date they are manufactured, the Uniform supplier shall reimburse the school the entire amount of the purchase plus an additional 25% penalty.

I would think if every school were to follow suit it would put a damper on these snake oil salesman.

 aBdUcT
When I was at Russell Athletic, in all our contracts, we guaranteed our uniforms met the rules at the time of manufacture.  No 25% penalty, we would simply have to replace them.  We never replaced one under this clause.  If you wanted a design that we did not think was legal, you had a sign a waiver saying it was your design, not ours, and we weren't liable.

But it is also why we, along with the reputable manufacturers, worked with the NFHS on uniform rules.  I'm afraid to say, Kevin, that one of your large corporate neighbors did not usually attend those meetings, and felt they were big enough to "adjust" the rules.

Now, anyone with access to a fabric manufacturer that has sublimation printing (a glorified ink jet printer) can create these monstrosities.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Legal Jersey
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2016, 08:27:29 AM »
I reviewed a "proof" for a school considering a uni change.  The company supplying the proof had this phrase:
By approving this mock-up you are approving all aspects of the design. You are acknowledging it meets with NFHS or NCAA uniform requirements. 

So I guess some manufacturers want the school to bear some responsibility also.