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Author Topic: How not to end a game  (Read 10902 times)

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Offline TexDoc

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How not to end a game
« on: July 18, 2017, 02:54:34 PM »
Bizarre ending.  I'll withhold comment for now.  Lots of "learning moments" in this clip.

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/10/30/13470380/video-high-school-football-artesia-goddard-surreal-17-minute-ending
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Offline Cowman52

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 07:04:42 PM »
Strange things happen in the eastern New  Mexico desert.  Maybe the aliens wanted to call a ball game.
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Offline TxJim

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 09:13:37 PM »
I guess the fed has different rules for what constitutes a snap.
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Offline TexDoc

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 06:33:20 AM »
The aliens apparently are unable to run, Cowman. 

Jim, encroachment by the defense is a dead ball foul in NF.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 08:03:55 AM »
Quote from: TexDoc on July 19, 2017, 06:33:20 AM
Jim, encroachment by the defense is a dead ball foul in NF.
...and there is no such thing as "offsides", either. Someone please tell that to the writer.   :!#
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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How not to end a game
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 04:58:46 PM »
Quote from: Rulesman on July 19, 2017, 08:03:55 AM
...and there is no such thing as "offsides", either. Someone please tell that to the writer.   :!#
And about 75% of us officials


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AFOpie

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 08:24:43 PM »
Over looking the fact that if you are calling the encroachments the clock should have never moved. 
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Offline zoom

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How not to end a game
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 05:20:04 AM »
This type of tactic (swiping at the ball during the snap) is now codified as ENC as of 2017.  So, thankfully, this should never happen again.

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Offline VA Official

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 10:17:21 AM »
Quote from: zoom on July 20, 2017, 05:20:04 AM
This type of tactic (swiping at the ball during the snap) is now codified as ENC as of 2017.  So, thankfully, this should never happen again.

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Could have easily classified this as an unfair act even last year for repeated intentional encroachments. Hit them for 15 a few times and if they still continue...  ^good
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Offline TxSkyBolt

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How not to end a game
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 06:40:07 PM »
I particularly enjoyed the Umpires DPI flag. Good get.


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Offline TexDoc

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 09:48:12 PM »
Quote from: TxSkyBolt on July 20, 2017, 06:40:07 PM
I particularly enjoyed the Umpires DPI flag. Good get.


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 hEaDbAnG hEaDbAnG hEaDbAnG
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Offline KWH

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 02:06:58 PM »
Quote from: TxSkyBolt on July 20, 2017, 06:40:07 PM
I particularly enjoyed the Umpires DPI flag. Good get.


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Umpire Throws DPI? 
I'm sorry, might have been the best call in the history of football, but,  that is a wave off.

I particularly enjoyed that extra hustle by the H it being a tight contest an all.  Kinda makes you wonder what kind of hustle you get from this guy in a 55-0 running clock blowout.
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Offline Bugolathe

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 11:26:58 AM »
Quote from: KWH on July 22, 2017, 02:06:58 PM
Umpire Throws DPI? 
I'm sorry, might have been the best call in the history of football, but,  that is a wave off.

I particularly enjoyed that extra hustle by the H it being a tight contest an all.  Kinda makes you wonder what kind of hustle you get from this guy in a 55-0 running clock blowout.

Thank you KWH!!  That's the one thing I noticed from the whole thing.  The lack of hustle made it look like none of these officials wanted to be there.

Not sure what any of you would have done in this situation, but after the second time the Goddard DL swiped at the ball under center, I would have invoked rule 9-10-5.  Inform the Goddard HC that if they did that again, they would be assessed 5-yard penalty and I wind the clock without chopping, GAME OVER!
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Offline NorCalMike

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 12:14:10 AM »
I have spent a lot of time as an umpire. I have never seen anyone successfully swipe the snap unless one of 3 things have happened. 1. Encroachment by the D. 2. False start by the O. 3. Snap infraction.

I am glad the Fed added the encroachment rule for swiping at the snap.
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Offline NorCalMike

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 01:38:50 AM »
I was just reading the Fed casebook about this play. It says repeated attempts to swipe at the snap are to be penalized as UNS.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 08:43:20 AM »
Under NCAA rules, trying to swipe at the ball would do no good.  By Rule 2-23-f, Team B is not permitted to touch the ball until it has been snapped, which means it leaves the snapper's hand(s).  If B is attempting to swat the ball out of the snapper's hand(s), and they contact the ball, the ball remains dead, and B's illegal interference is penalized for delay of game - THE FIRST TIME.  After the first time, with appropriate notification (warning) to the Team B head coach, a repeat of such illegal interference would allow the R to invoke 9-2-3-c, and take any action he believes is equitable.  I'd penalize 15 yards, with a first down, set the play clock to 40, and start both clocks on the RFP.  For infractions after that, you 'could' forfeit the game, but I'd probably just keep penalizing and winding.  The game clock will eventually run out, and B couldn't stop it.

Also, I wouldn't get too picky about whether B contacted the ball, or just the snapper's arms.  Don't let him interfere with the snap.   
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Offline mardjam

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2017, 06:34:00 PM »
Quote from: ElvisLives on July 25, 2017, 08:43:20 AM
Also, I wouldn't get too picky about whether B contacted the ball, or just the snapper's arms.  Don't let him interfere with the snap.   

So, under ncaa rules we could conclude that team B is not able to interfere with the snap? unless the defensive player contact the snapper frame.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 11:17:13 PM »
I think what you are asking is, once the ball starts moving for the snap, if a team B player could react quickly enough to charge into the snapper before the ball leaves his hand, is that a foul.  The answer is:  no foul.

If it happens, get video.  Never seen it.  Any snapper that slow wouldn't last more than one snap - even in practice.
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Offline OSU65

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2017, 01:53:12 PM »
I saw a B-10 penalty where a def lineman hit the center soon after the snap. He was penalized for hitting the center the center too soon ( my words ) after he snapped the ball. Was that a snap infraction?
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Offline OSU65

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2017, 02:17:45 PM »
My mistake. I found the rule and there is a roughing the snapper rule during punt formations.
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Offline Sonofanump

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2017, 08:59:22 PM »
Quote from: ElvisLives on July 25, 2017, 08:43:20 AM
and start both clocks on the RFP. 

Help me out here, if this is the first play of the series (snap), and we don't get a legal snap before the foul occurred, how can we RFP under 3.4.3 or 3.4.4?  I have it in my head that the clock needs to be running to invoke.
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Offline Rulesman

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2017, 09:58:41 PM »
Quote from: Sonofanump on September 17, 2017, 08:59:22 PM
Help me out here, if this is the first play of the series (snap), and we don't get a legal snap before the foul occurred, how can we RFP under 3.4.3 or 3.4.4?  I have it in my head that the clock needs to be running to invoke.
You are correct.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 06:33:12 AM »
Quote from: Sonofanump on September 17, 2017, 08:59:22 PM
Help me out here, if this is the first play of the series (snap), and we don't get a legal snap before the foul occurred, how can we RFP under 3.4.3 or 3.4.4?  I have it in my head that the clock needs to be running to invoke.

Of course.  Sorry, I was thinking a bit more generically, i.e., the clock would have been running.

Robert
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Offline mardjam

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 10:09:12 AM »
Quote from: ElvisLives on September 16, 2017, 11:17:13 PM
I think what you are asking is, once the ball starts moving for the snap, if a team B player could react quickly enough to charge into the snapper before the ball leaves his hand, is that a foul.  The answer is:  no foul.

If it happens, get video.  Never seen it.  Any snapper that slow wouldn't last more than one snap - even in practice.

Ok, that's clear, but the rulebook says that a team B player is not able to touch the ball during the snap, though as you said, it's very hard to realize on the field if the player touches the ball or just the snapper's arm. So, my question is:  Would we have to call the penalty in any way if we see the player trying to swat the snap with his hand? I know it could sound weird, but in a country where the sport is pretty new we have to be sure about rules interpretations.

Thanks!
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: How not to end a game
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 01:22:00 PM »
No contact, no foul.  But, like I said, if it looks like he's trying to swat the ball from the snapper's hand and only manages to hit the snapper's hands or forearms (not the ball), make the call.

Robert
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