Batting a loose ball

[centexsports]

Does this say that the result of this will be Team A accepting the penalty and penalizing Team B from the spot of the fumble?

VII. Team A’s fumble in flight is batted forward by B1, and the ball goes
out of bounds behind Team A’s goal line. RULING: Safety. Batting
a fumble in flight does not add a new impetus (Rule 8-7-2-b). Team
B foul. Penalty—10 yards.
 

[Kalle]

Yes, if the spot of the fumble is beyond the neutral zone. If it is behind, then the basic spot is the previous spot.

[dammitbobby]

I'm reading up on batting, and I'm about to ask what is probably a really, really dumb question.

In this example, if the outcome is a safety, why is there an additional penalty statement?  i.e., the result is a safety, so B will already free kick to A from the 20 - is that 10 yard penalty assessed from there? 

[Kalle]

In this example, if the outcome is a safety, why is there an additional penalty statement?  i.e., the result is a safety, so B will already free kick to A from the 20 - is that 10 yard penalty assessed from there?

The ball becomes dead in team A's end zone, and if there was no illegal batting, team B would score two points and team A would kick off to team B.

[dammitbobby]

Right  I'm not understanding why there's an additional penalty statement 10 yards)?  In this case play, the ball's always going out the back of the end zone, which is always a safety.  I'm not understanding the rationale for the 10 yards part of the explanation, where would it come into play, (unless the bat didn't go out the end zone - but that's not the case play scenario.)

[Legacy Zebra]

No dumb questions, only answers you don’t know yet.

The result of the play is a safety because batting a fumble in flight does not add new impetus. Therefore when it becomes dead behind Team A’s goal line and Team A is still responsible for it. But Team B fouled during the down. So Team A is going to accept that penalty rather than take the result of the play. This cancels the score just like if Team A has scored a TD but committed a holding foul.

Now to the broader question: Can a yardage penalty carryover to a free kick after safety? No, a penalty live ball foul can never be carried over to a free kick after a safety. The offended team must choose either the result of the play or the penalty enforcement. So say Team A is in an illegal formation at the snap and the QB gets sacked in the end zone. Team B again must choose between the penalty enforcement or the result of the play. Obviously they are going to decline the penalty and take the safety.

The only way to have a penalty enforced on the free kick after a safety is if it was a dead ball foul. So if Team A gets sacked for a safety and then the QB is flagged for UNS. That would be enforced on the free kick because that is the succeeding spot.

[dammitbobby]

OK that makes sense now (after reading it 15 times or so, .)  The bat was illegal because it was 'forward' - is it correct to say that when we are dealing with batting, and batting the ball forward, that each team's end line is what determines forward, not just the original direction of A?  Not sure if that makes sense, even when I read it.  If A would be penalized for batting a ball forward towards their end line, on the same play, for B to have a batting foul, would it have to be in the same direction as A's batting foul, or forward toward B's end line?

I think the answer is B's bat would have to be opposite direction of A's to be considered forward, just want to make sure/clarify. 

Some concepts are very difficult for me to mentally picture/remember, and batting is one of them (another one being rules around motion/shift... no matter how much I read the rules, rewrite them, create cheat sheets/study cards, I just have a hard time getting certain things to stick.)

[Legacy Zebra]

is it correct to say that when we are dealing with batting, and batting the ball forward, that each team's end line is what determines forward, not just the original direction of A?

Correct. We actually have a definition for this in 2-9-1. Forward for either team means toward their opponent’s end line.

[ElvisLives]

OK that makes sense now (after reading it 15 times or so, .)  The bat was illegal because it was 'forward' - is it correct to say that when we are dealing with batting, and batting the ball forward, that each team's end line is what determines forward, not just the original direction of A?  Not sure if that makes sense, even when I read it.  If A would be penalized for batting a ball forward towards their end line, on the same play, for B to have a batting foul, would it have to be in the same direction as A's batting foul, or forward toward B's end line?

I think the answer is B's bat would have to be opposite direction of A's to be considered forward, just want to make sure/clarify. 

Some concepts are very difficult for me to mentally picture/remember, and batting is one of them (another one being rules around motion/shift... no matter how much I read the rules, rewrite them, create cheat sheets/study cards, I just have a hard time getting certain things to stick.)

2-9-1 defines Forward and Backward. Toward your opponent's end line is forward. Any other direction is backward (related to that team). In this instance, Team B batted a loose ball (other than a pass) forward (toward A's end line), and that is illegal. However, as Legacy pointed out, batting a loose ball in flight does not change its impetus. So, in this case, impetus remains with A's fumble; thus, when it goes OB in the A's end zone, A is responsible for the ball becoming dead behind their own goal line (despite B's batting of the ball), and that is a safety. However, B's batting is illegal, so A will accept the penalty, which would be a 3 and 1 enforcement relative to the end of the run (the spot of the fumble, in this case) if that spot is beyond the NZ, or from the NZ if the end of the run is behind the NZ. The distance penalty is 10 yards, with the down repeated, unless the penalty places the ball beyond the line to gain, yielding a new series for Team A.
And, by the way, due to the apparent safety, the game clock will next start on the snap.
The announcement would not address the natural result of the down (safety). It would simply be: "Illegal batting; number 44, defense. That's a 10-yard penalty; repeat 3rd down. Clock operator: the game clock will start on the snap."

[dammitbobby]

Thanks - I had looked for a definition but somehow missed it.