Helping the runner?

[bigjohn]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Green-Bay-8217-s-Randall-Cobb-first-NFL-player?urn=nfl-wp6766

had this happened in a Fed game would you have HTR?

[InsideTheStripes]

To be honest, the first time I saw it I thought it was ATR under FED rules.  After a couple replays, I wasn't so sure.  It looked like the runner had a hand down and likely would have stayed up without any "assistance".  I'm leaning towards no foul, but will be interested in hearing what others have to say.

[bigjohn]

SECTION 1 HELPING THE RUNNER
An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

Whether he needed it or not, he got it!

Why would you call it ATR?? 

[mbyron]

The "lift" didn't advance the runner's forward progress. No foul.

[InsideTheStripes]

Whether he needed it or not, he got it!

If he would have stayed up on his own, was there an advantage gained?

Why would you call it ATR?? 

There must have been an editorial change at some point in 9-1.  The foul is described as "assisting the runner" in the 2011 Rule Book index (p. 112), the 2011 Case Book heading (p. 65) and the 2010 POEs (p. 3, 86).  I've always referred to the foul using that terminology.  I guess HTR is a more accurate description based on the terminology used in 9-1.

[bigjohn]

I agree with the helping the runner, why is it referred to assisting if the foul is called HTR?  Just a little quirk I guess.
2011 NFHS Football Rules Page 94
PENALTY SUMMARY
21. Helping runner...9-1 44

[ECILLJ]

 In my opinion this is not HTR. The intent of the rule is for the plays of tugging, pulling and pushing to gain additional yards (normally 1st down and goal line situations). Helping a teammate keep his balance in the open field is not the intent of the rule. The NFL refs did not call it last night and we should not call it either.

[InsideTheStripes]

In my opinion this is not HTR. The intent of the rule is for the plays of tugging, pulling and pushing to gain additional yards (normally 1st down and goal line situations). Helping a teammate keep his balance in the open field is not the intent of the rule. The NFL refs did not call it last night and we should not call it either.

The NFL rule is different.  We shouldn't look to NFL officials for what to do in FED games when the rules governing the same plays are different.  I think a better case could be made that it was a foul last night:

Rule 12, Section 1, Article 5  No offensive player may:
(a) lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time;

[ECILLJ]

 

Rule 12, Section 1, Article 5  No offensive player may:
(a) lift a runner to his feet or pull him in any direction at any time;
[/quote]

The runner was already on his feet and he was not pulled in any direction. I would not call this a foul, but that is me.

[InsideTheStripes]

The runner was already on his feet and he was not pulled in any direction. I would not call this a foul, but that is me.

I tend to agree with you (as already noted).  That's not the point I was making.   

[dcbarisax1]

Actually had this tonight in a game that I was observing.

A 3 & 23 from B47. A2 catches a pass at B30 and B61 grabs his trailing leg attempting to make the play.  A34 grabs A2 under his shoulderpads and proceeds to pull him to B28 while B61 is still attached.

The crew made the call.  First time I think I've ever seen it or heard of it being called.