Author Topic: The Dez Bryant non-catch  (Read 27325 times)

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Offline SCHSref

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The Dez Bryant non-catch
« on: January 12, 2015, 09:15:02 AM »
What are your opinions on the situation?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 09:17:31 AM by SCHSref »
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Offline BlindZebra

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 09:36:21 AM »
Being a Cowboys fan, I tried and tried to make it a catch...but the official in me agreed with the reversal.  I don't think he established himself long enough to complete the catching process and lost control when he hit the ground.

Online Kalle

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 09:40:45 AM »
As a Bears fan, I did the same :) But the NFL is very consistent in that if you are going to the ground, you must maintain possession throughout the process, and in this case the ball very clearly came loose when it hit the ground. If Bryant had maintained firm grasp of the ball when it hit the ground, it would have been a catch.

He should have brought the ball in and taken a first and goal at the one, now his greed got the better of him and the team.

Offline goodgrr

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 10:07:23 AM »
Playing devil's advocate here....

Is his extension a "football move" having already 'established' possession?

I also thought it would be overturned, however in slo-mo as he stretched I did wonder if they would see that.

Then I thought back a week and remembered they caught a big break with some poor officiating/mechanics  :sTiR:  ^no

Online Kalle

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 10:22:57 AM »
Is his extension a "football move" having already 'established' possession?

Not good enough, IMO.

Offline BlindZebra

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 10:23:41 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rikn30H9osI&feature=youtu.be

would you consider this a "football move"?

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 10:24:12 AM »
I thought it was a catch - so that act of catching while going to the ground does not apply.  He made two football moves -- (1) first after catching the ball at the apex of his jump with both hands, he shifted the ball to his outside, or left, hand, and was now cradling the ball in possession and control and (2) he made a dive for the EZ.  Watch his left leg -- he drove of that leg with his lunge for the EZ.  Two moves common to the game of football = a catch for me.

Offline Wingmanbp

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 10:46:13 AM »
I thought it was a catch - so that act of catching while going to the ground does not apply.  He made two football moves -- (1) first after catching the ball at the apex of his jump with both hands, he shifted the ball to his outside, or left, hand, and was now cradling the ball in possession and control and (2) he made a dive for the EZ.  Watch his left leg -- he drove of that leg with his lunge for the EZ.  Two moves common to the game of football = a catch for me.
That was my thoughts exactly. Catch, 3 steps, change of hands, dive and reach should be enough in my opinion to call it a catch.

Offline goodgrr

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 10:48:51 AM »

Offline BlindZebra

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 11:55:26 AM »
Not enough for me

Then how can the Cowboy catch be different?  These plays look the same in my opinion.

Online Kalle

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 11:56:18 AM »
would you consider this a "football move"?

Incomplete.

Offline goodgrr

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 12:08:02 PM »
Then how can the Cowboy catch be different?  These plays look the same in my opinion.

I agree, I said above that I thought it should be over-turned.  I was playing devil's advocate in asking if his extension was a football move.

Offline goodgrr

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2015, 12:15:23 PM »
Although having said that, I believe there is more to the Dez catch than the one you posted but still doesn't reach the necessary level for me.

Offline Wingmanbp

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 12:43:56 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rikn30H9osI&feature=youtu.be

would you consider this a "football move"?
Thats a totally different play because he is already going to the ground when he touches the ball. Dez's catch he jumped up to the ball then made the moves that should have been enough to complete the catch in my opinion. control, steps, change of hands, dive and reach.

Offline NoVaBJ

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 01:06:51 PM »
A "football move" is NOT an element of a completed pass under NFL Rule 8.1.3.  Nor is it an element in the NFHS code.

Now, there is another part of 8.1.3 about going to ground that applies here, which makes the pass incomplete under the NFL code, no matter how many "football moves" happen along the way.

Under the NFHS code, touchdown all damn day.

Offline Wingmanbp

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2015, 01:30:39 PM »
A "football move" is NOT an element of a completed pass under NFL Rule 8.1.3.  Nor is it an element in the NFHS code.

Now, there is another part of 8.1.3 about going to ground that applies here, which makes the pass incomplete under the NFL code, no matter how many "football moves" happen along the way.

Under the NFHS code, touchdown all DARN day.
Its not under 8-1-3 but it is below that. I don't know the number and cant get it right now but someone Quoted it yesterday

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2015, 01:55:29 PM »
Its not under 8-1-3 but it is below that. I don't know the number and cant get it right now but someone Quoted it yesterday

  Correct.  It is a catch if the player possess the ball and does a move common to the game of football -- this a "football move".  You only get to the going to be ground section if the player is still in the act of "catching the ball."  My understanding is that if you rule that he already caught the ball because of possession and taking an action common to the game of football -- then you do not invoke the section about completing the process of going to the ground. 

Offline centexsports

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2015, 02:11:49 PM »
The purpose of the rule is to prevent catches like the Butch Johnson catch in the Super Bowl not a legit catch like the one yesterday.   I no longer root for the Cowboys but if that was not a catch then it should be.   The calling official was less then 5 feet from the play and had perfect position.  It should not have been over ruled.   An ex NFL official on Mike and Mike this morning said it best (paraphrased) "By RULE, this may not have been a catch but the NFL has made it so difficult to call the game that officials can not do the job properly."   

I think this goes for high school and NCAA also.   

Offline SD_Casey

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2015, 02:53:34 PM »
I gotta go  ^no here.

From the top of his jump it looks like he is falling the entire time on his way back down.  He keeps his feet under him a little bit but still appears to be falling.  As far as that little lungey/dive thing goes..... Look where he is when that happens.  He's inches from the ground at that point.  My opinion is he is just continuing to fall while teaching the ball out.

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« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 03:01:46 PM by SD_Casey »

Offline bkdow

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2015, 03:11:35 PM »
In addition #38 dislodges the ball right after he starts coming down.  Moving hands in some of that is part of regaining control.  No catch.
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Offline DallasLJ

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2015, 03:20:32 PM »
In addition #38 dislodges the ball right after he starts coming down.  Moving hands in some of that is part of regaining control.  No catch.

  So, can we agree to this:  That after the ball was tipped / jostled by Team B, that R88 possessed the ball sufficient to transfer the ball to cradle in his left arm?

Offline bkdow

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2015, 03:25:47 PM »
  So, can we agree to this:  That after the ball was tipped / jostled by Team B, that R88 possessed the ball sufficient to transfer the ball to cradle in his left arm?
That is not sufficient to make it a catch in my opinion.  Going to the ground requires maintained control through the process.  Would you have been comfortable with a "catch" if Team B takes the ball away (when it was completely out of his hands) and runs for a touchdown?
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Offline BlindZebra

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2015, 03:34:51 PM »
Thats a totally different play because he is already going to the ground when he touches the ball. Dez's catch he jumped up to the ball then made the moves that should have been enough to complete the catch in my opinion. control, steps, change of hands, dive and reach.

Interesting.  Those look very similar to me.  Jump to make the catch, possession, feet down while falling, hit the ground and ball poops loose.  Incomplete in both plays.

Offline DallasLJ

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2015, 03:49:27 PM »
That is not sufficient to make it a catch in my opinion.  Going to the ground requires maintained control through the process.  Would you have been comfortable with a "catch" if Team B takes the ball away (when it was completely out of his hands) and runs for a touchdown?

  This to me is the point of disagreement.  The "process" of going to the ground to complete the catch only applies if you determine that he did not already "catch" the ball.  I believe he already completed the catch by demonstrating possession of the ball and not just one move, but two moves, common to the game.  He controlled the ball sufficient to deliberately transfer the ball to his outside arm  and then he lunged for the EZ.  Watch his left leg -- he drives off the leg to dive for the EZ.  If you determine that he had a catch -- then the process to the ground portion of the rule does not apply.

Offline Morningrise

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Re: The Dez Bryant non-catch
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2015, 04:02:09 PM »
Anyone who says he didn't go to the ground in the process of making the catch, what you're saying instead is that he could theoretically have caught the ball and stayed upright if he wanted to.

I don't believe that could have been done. His body is coming straight down in an uninterrupted motion, from airborne to flat on the turf.

Yes, his two feet are the first body parts to touch down, but that doesn't prove that he's stepping or running or doing anything other than collapsing to the ground. If you think his falling to the ground was an act completely divorced from the catch attempt, you're being very very generous IMHO.

Bear in mind that, if you slow the video down enough, you can make *anything* look like a catch.