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Football Officiating => National Federation Discussion => Topic started by: Ralph Damren on November 09, 2016, 10:06:53 AM
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I've been nominated and have accepted a four year position as Section 1(NE states, NY &NJ) Manual Committee member. 2017 is not a publish year, but we'll still meet as part of NFHS Football Rules Committee and discuss possible mechanics changes and points of emphasis. I would welcome any suggestions that any of you may have.
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Congratulations and good luck.
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Congratulations Ralph!! I'm wondering is there a roll call on the voting of any new rules? Our rules interpreter is getting done and the state representative has never came our meetings to discuss the rules. thanks
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I've been nominated and have accepted a four year position as Section 1(NE states, NY &NJ) Manual Committee member. 2017 is not a publish year, but we'll still meet as part of NFHS Football Rules Committee and discuss possible mechanics changes and points of emphasis. I would welcome any suggestions that any of you may have.
By popular vote or NFHS Electoral vote? pi1eOn
Congrats!! pHiNzuP tiphat:
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Suggestions
Return someone (B or U) to the middle of the field on Kick-offs. This can help with any potential errors by K; but, more importantly gives a better look than from the R spot down the middle. The R and L can be at the
GL/SL corners.
Put the U back where he belongs - not under the goal post on PATs and FGs. Most crews can adjust to an open side.
Eliminate the "requirement" to speak to the captains for penalty acceptance/declination.
Just warming up! yEs:
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Suggestions
Eliminate the "requirement" to speak to the captains for penalty acceptance/declination.
Is it worth remembering, the PRIMARY purpose of Interscholastic sports is the development and education of High School students (and below) not Collegiate or Professional athletes.
Part of what students learn is teamwork, which includes aspiring to, exercising judgment and developing and learning how to respond to leaders. Captains are appointed, which is normally based on some level of accomplishments and being appointed Captain is worthy of both respect from and responsibility to teammates. (life lessons we ALL need to learn)
Ignoring, or disrespecting that achievement sends the WRONG message and devalues the achievement. We've beat this horse to death in past discussions, explaining how EASY it is to involve BOTH the designated Captain, and a coach TO WHATEVER EXTENT NECESSARY, to absolutely insure wrong judgments are non-existent, simply using a minimum of effort and common sense, without sacrificing the respect and accomplishment a Captain has EARNED by virtue of his designation.
Although our "job" is neither to make the process "easier", or involve coaches in penalty decisions, both objectives can be easily, subtly and consistently accomplished, with a minimum of effort, WITHOUT sacrificing the integrity and status earned by team Captains.
The current process was established for good reason.
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Are you using a different set of mechanics than the rest of us? Or am I the weird one?
Return someone (B or U) to the middle of the field on Kick-offs. This can help with any potential errors by K; but, more importantly gives a better look than from the R spot down the middle. The R and L can be at the GL/SL corners.
R is not "middle", but he's not on the sideline -- and the BJ comes to the middle after the kick. I'm not sure what you're suggesting here -- keep the B behind the kicker the whole time?
Put the U back where he belongs - not under the goal post on PATs and FGs. Most crews can adjust to an open side.
As a line judge, I'm always under the post -- R, U and H are in their normal spots and my sideline is "open". I do know that we do deviate from the book mechanic because the LJ is always under the post around these parts -- it's never the HL depending on the side of the kicker as the book suggests. The U is never under the goal posts.
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There was a similar thread a while ago. Here's what I posted there when asked about areas of the manual that are outdated:
1) Auxiliary signals are not permitted (the "catch" signal, tapping the ground on a pass that skips in, etc).
2) Prelim signals are not permitted by the calling official when he runs into the R.
3) Manual continues to state that the captain must be consulted for penalty options instead of going to the coach or enforcing the foul yourself if the choice is obvious (eg: 15 yard FMM on the defense).
4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.
5) R is required to give preliminary signals. They should be optional and only given if there is a choice that needs made.
6) Wing officials not going in at an angle to the R on pre-snap fouls. If the U has a flag, they should meet in the offensive backfield.
7) R's alignment is too tight to the offensive formation instead of being wide.
8) R's alignment is too close to the LOS on punt plays. Should be behind the kicker.
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Thanks, guys, for your interesting inputs. Like your suggestions on potential rule changes that will be available shortly, I'll bring your feedback to windy Indy with me in January. Several of you commented on removing the "ask the captains" on penalty options. That would require a rule change and I submitted one a couple of years ago. It failed to make it out of subcommittee with the responses of : "High school teaches kids to be leaders and leaders should be asked to make decisions." and "there is no foul for the coach to voice his choice when within hearing distance of your meeting with the captain."
The manual currently sends the wing from the side facing the front of the holder (and backside of the WH) under the pipes on kick try/FG formations. I would like to expand that to keep said wing at the goal line if a team breaks into a "swinging gate" formation to his side. If the big ole' Bubba linemen then reset, the wing will still have ample time to grab his post.
No, Curious, it wasn't a voting decision as there wasn't any opponent. The NFHS ask the state associations in Section 1 for nominations. The Maine Principals' Association nominated me while the other "New" (New England, New York & New Jersey) states didn't respond. I've been on committee before (I'll still remain on the Rules Committee) and am looking forward to the involvement. Please keep your suggestions coming.
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The manual currently sends the wing from the side facing the front of the holder (and backside of the WH) under the pipes on kick try/FG formations. I would like to expand that to keep said wing at the goal line if a team breaks into a "swinging gate" formation to his side. If the big ole' Bubba linemen then reset, the wing will still have ample time to grab his post.
Again... that's just what we do, so I'd support this "change".
If A lines up "for two", it's just standard scrimmage play mechanics and I'm on the LOS. If they then shift into a kick formation, then I'm shifting to under the posts.
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No, Curious, it wasn't a voting decision as there wasn't any opponent. The NFHS ask the state associations in Section 1 for nominations. The Maine Principals' Association nominated me while the other "New" (New England, New York & New Jersey) states didn't respond. I've been on committee before (I'll still remain on the Rules Committee) and am looking forward to the involvement. Please keep your suggestions coming.
The NY interpreter is new this year; he may not have been aware of this at the time...
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The NY interpreter is new this year; he may not have been aware of this at the time...
He snooze; he lose. ;D
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Are you using a different set of mechanics than the rest of us? Or am I the weird one?
R is not "middle", but he's not on the sideline -- and the BJ comes to the middle after the kick. I'm not sure what you're suggesting here -- keep the B behind the kicker the whole time?
As a line judge, I'm always under the post -- R, U and H are in their normal spots and my sideline is "open". I do know that we do deviate from the book mechanic because the LJ is always under the post around these parts -- it's never the HL depending on the side of the kicker as the book suggests. The U is never under the goal posts.
Just to clarify, in Michigan, our Kick-off and PAT/FG mechanics are apparently different than the FED. On kick-offs, we have the R on the GL in the middle of the field and the H and U at the 20. The U is on the sideline opposite the PB and the B (after handing the kicker the ball) is on the PB sideline.
On PATs/FGs, the U and B are on their respective posts. The wings stay in their normal positions with the R having kicker/holder responsibility.
Not exactly sure why these mechanics have been altered from the FED book; but it's what we have to deal with.
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On kick-offs, we have the R on the GL in the middle of the field and the H and U at the 20. The U is on the sideline opposite the PB and the B (after handing the kicker the ball) is on the PB sideline.
That's strange. If U is opposite the PB at the 20 (chains side), H is on PB side & then has to go across the field after the kickoff? Same with L and B.
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Just to clarify, in Michigan, our Kick-off and PAT/FG mechanics are apparently different than the FED. On kick-offs, we have the R on the GL in the middle of the field and the H and U at the 20. The U is on the sideline opposite the PB and the B (after handing the kicker the ball) is on the PB sideline.
On PATs/FGs, the U and B are on their respective posts. The wings stay in their normal positions with the R having kicker/holder responsibility.
Not exactly sure why these mechanics have been altered from the FED book; but it's what we have to deal with.
Like 'Bama, I'm confused why a FK mechanic would HL crossing the field to join his chain crew after the play. When we put the roughing the snapper rule in back in 1996, it was the general assumption that this would predominately be the umpire's call. Putting him under a post and focusing on the ensuing kick would make such a call a challenge.
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Sorry guys, poor typist (and too many hot totties last night). On FKs, the H is opposite the PB. The U is on the PB side at the 50. The H and L are on the R20 yard line to start. The B takes his final position on the K40 opposite the PB after handing the ball to the kicker. The R is on the GL in the middle of the field
This leaves a big hole in the middle IMHO. Touching on grounded kicks down the middle is difficult to pick up from 40-50 yards away (R) or from the sidelines - which really is my point.
The PAT/FG mechanic remains confusing to all of us. We often need oxygen for the U on long field goal attempts; and it's tricky for the R to watch the snapper and then the kicker/holder.
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Sorry guys, poor typist (and too many hot totties last night). On FKs, the H is opposite the PB. The U is on the PB side at the 50. The H and L are on the R20 yard line to start. The B takes his final position on the K40 opposite the PB after handing the ball to the kicker. The R is on the GL in the middle of the field
This leaves a big hole in the middle IMHO. Touching on grounded kicks down the middle is difficult to pick up from 40-50 yards away (R) or from the sidelines - which really is my point.
The PAT/FG mechanic remains confusing to all of us. We often need oxygen for the U on long field goal attempts; and it's tricky for the R to watch the snapper and then the kicker/holder.
Disregarding who is where, the Fed mechanic differs mainly that the U is on the 20 and the H is on the 30 (instead of two officials on the 20). To fill the hole, I see two main options -- a) Move the H up to the 35 and he splits the difference between the U and L or b) Add more officials. Something tells me that Option A is more likely.
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The NFHS needs to put together a 6 man mechanic manual. More schools are going to the 6 man officiating crews and there is not a uniform 6 man mechanic manual. Some state associations have put together their own versions of a manual as have local associations, but it would be nice to have one manual from NFHS so that there is consistency across the board and piecemeal manuals would go by the wayside.
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FG/PAT mechanic with R facing holder/kicker and pushing wing under works...a swinging gate, subsequent shift and long FG challenge us, but it's a rarity. On a broken play to the uncovered side U has GL (or LTG) responsibility and R has sideline responsibility. I like R being very wide, the numbers or so, for this coverage, don't know if that fits in the 3-5 yards. What is the signal for a scrimmage kick formation? Book says to signal, but gives no prescribed signal....we used radio this year.
Need to begin thinking about proper use of communications devices. This was our first year using walkie talkie and communicating fouls, double stakes, clock stopper, scrimmage kick formation, etc. were the most prevalent and beneficial uses.
Consider language that is not so prescriptive on free kicks. There's no one "right" place to be on kick-offs, positions can and need to be adjusted based on K's abilities and weather conditions.
Are R's working at 10 yards deep anymore? We're all at least 12-15. I guess that's "approximately 10".
Are U's working 4-7 anymore? I think we're all positioning in the 6-8 range these days.
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The NFHS needs to put together a 6 man mechanic manual. More schools are going to the 6 man officiating crews and there is not a uniform 6 man mechanic manual. Some state associations have put together their own versions of a manual as have local associations, but it would be nice to have one manual from NFHS so that there is consistency across the board and piecemeal manuals would go by the wayside.
No, no, a thousand times no. Six man sucks. Go to seven or stay at five.
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No, no, a thousand times no. Six man sucks. Go to seven or stay at five.
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Six is much better then five. Unless they send 5 WR's out all the receivers have an official on them the whole time and there is always an official on the pylon on a TD.
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It really does not matter if five or seven is better than six, the state has decided that they are going to use six during the season and the first rounds of the playoffs, then seven for the 2 final rounds of the playoffs. It would be helpful to have the NFHS put together a six and seven man mechanic manual. The way it is now, there is no uniformity between the different parts of the state as to what the mechanics will be. The state is of no use, just dictated that we will use six man mechanics with no mechanic issued. In our part of the state, we are using a blended version of the six man mechanic used by NJ, Ga, La, and Pa. In other parts of the state, who knows where they come from.
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Back before the turn of the century the manual carried only 3 & 4 man mechanics. When the decision was made to add 5- man, it forced the need to hull out 3- man. Where 3- man is still used in many sub-varsity settings, it is available on the NFHS website. Our chapter prints 3- man and supplies to our sub-varsity officials and all seems to go well. The day we add 6-man will probably be the day we hull out 4-man. Until the majority of states use 6-man in regular season, I feel only 4 & 5-man will be covered. Maine uses 4 & 5-man during regular season, 5-man in playoffs and 7-man in championship games.
When that day arrives that we add 6-man; the clamor will then begin to add 7-man.
We supply our officials working the championship games with 7-man and the game is preceded by a strong pre-game on working the line wings and deep wings. Seems to work.
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4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.
Yes, this was changed. Numbers can be announced.
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Yes, this was changed. Numbers can be announced.
Usually the fouling team's coach will want to know who fouled. Whispering; "it was #76,coach" didn't seem necessary where ,in round ball, the fouling player's number is posted in flashing neon lights. If the foul was on the visiting team, I'll usually yell his number to the visiting sidelines after I announced it along with proper signal to the press box.
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I'm not a six man fan either. Don't like the whole in the middle of the field. Holding out for 7.
IMHO, while you lose the "inside-out" look of the BJ in going from 5 to 6; you've strengthened your sideline and deep coverage. Going from 6 to 7 ,with the back judge back, has made everyone up here happy, though.
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Everyone that's not a fan of 6... have you even tried it? We exclusively work 6 in our area and we would NEVER want to go to 5 man. Many many benefits over 5 man
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We exclusively work 6 in our area and we would NEVER want to go to 5 man. Many many benefits over 5 man
Such as...?
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I think people are so afraid of not having someone deep middle is the biggest problem. In reality, maybe 2-4 passes go deep middle in a whole year. That is one of the only holes in 6 man, and it only becomes an issue if something actually happens on those 2 passes.
--2 people under the post on FG - no shifting/compromising mechanics.
--Extra downfield coverage for modern day pass-happy football.
--Better sideline coverage.
--Better run coverage as deep official can watch his key the whole way.
--Better kickoff coverage. Initial positions let the officials box the players in.
--Punt coverage has more eyes and LJ does not have to leave LOS.
--Goal line is ALWAYS covered by 2 officials. Never have the inside-out look.
--You can work reverse mechanics on changes of possession.
--Wings can officiate keys and stay near the LOS. Can help with pass blocking better. Do not need to run down field on passes.
--U and R don't have to worry about the LOS or forward/backward passes.
--Working 6 man sets you up for success working 7 man in later rounds of playoffs.
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Yep worked it a bunch. Prefer 5 with the man in the middle or even better 7.
Having worked a long time in a 4 man configuration, that only recently expanded consistently to 5, with limited exposure to 6 man coverage, in area semi-pro leagues, it seems, universally, "more is better". This extends, of course, to the belief that expanding to 7, or in some distant universe to 8, would even be better still.
The main observation recognized between 5 and 6 man configurations might be the volume of additional gray hair I've seen on Linesman and Line Judges There also seems to be more of it on NCAA and NFL crews working 7 and 8 man configurations. It appears to allow more senior officials to remain comfortable, effective and capable, at those key positions, that are involved in EVERY play, not just the passing game, as well as allow the deep official(s) to focus more on their unique responsibilities.
It seems that having more gray hair, in direct proximity to the heart of team boxes, provides better, more consistent communication to address (or reduce) questions, or concerns. Reducing the distance of coverage requirements seems to have expanded the length of time quality individuals can perform at full capability in these critical zones, which enhances everyone's performance.
We have a LONG way to go developing "more is better" before we get anyway near worrying about there being "too much".
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I suggest that on a scrimmage kick (punt) that the L move down field to cover and have the LJ stay at the line of scrimmage with the down marker directly 166' ahead of him where he can draw a bead to the marker to determine the position of the ball either in flight of on the ground. Having the down marker to the L's back does not allow that line.
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Ralph, here's a repeat of one of mine last year:
On fouls by K during a free kick (i.e., while the ball is loose), let's adopt "tack-on" enforcement - if for no other reason than safety (many injuries occur during free kick downs). tiphat:
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Ralph, here's a repeat of one of mine last year:
On fouls by K during a free kick (i.e., while the ball is loose), let's adopt "tack-on" enforcement - if for no other reason than safety (many injuries occur during free kick downs). tiphat:
Is there a rampant issue in your area with K fouling on free kicks before the kick is possessed?
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Is there a rampant issue in your area with K fouling on free kicks before the kick is possessed?
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Not "rampant"; but it's more about injury potential than penalty frequency. IMHO, there is absolutely no reason to re-kick when K fouls when the ball is loose.
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Not "rampant"; but it's more about injury potential than penalty frequency. IMHO, there is absolutely no reason to re-kick when K fouls when the ball is loose.
I guess my comment was more to... What live ball fouls have you seen K commit on any recurring basis?
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I guess my comment was more to... What live ball fouls have you seen K commit on any recurring basis?
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Primarily blocking within the 10 yard neutral zone during on-side kicks; but we've seen "hands" infractions, facemasks, and PFs (away from the ball) as well. At least two injuries this year (keeping players from further participation) have occurred on the re-kicks.
I'll admit that does not seem like a lot; but let me ask: why would we ever WANT to repeat a free kick if a live ball foul by K could be enforced from the dead ball spot? In addition to eliminating another play with higher than normal injury potential, the "tack-on" may actually deter some of the fouls. If would help, make it an OPTION for the receivers.
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Primarily blocking within the 10 yard neutral zone during on-side kicks; but we've seen "hands" infractions, facemasks, and PFs (away from the ball) as well. At least two injuries this year (keeping players from further participation) have occurred on the re-kicks.
I'll admit that does not seem like a lot; but let me ask: why would we ever WANT to repeat a free kick if a live ball foul by K could be enforced from the dead ball spot? In addition to eliminating another play with higher than normal injury potential, the "tack-on" may actually deter some of the fouls. If would help, make it an OPTION for the receivers.
I can see onside kicks being a potential issue since the kick remains a kick for some time with lots of contact.
But other fouls that occur while the ball is still a kick are rare IMO (like your aforementioned examples). Most fouls occur during the return.
Perhaps I am missing something.
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Some of the positioning "recommendations" in the book are out of date in the modern game.
As the R, I'm at least 15 yards behind the LOS. I can hold my position on most plays and back out at a 45 degree angle on the rest.
As the R, I'm wide and 5 yards deeper than the holder. The manual has us almost shaking hands with the kicker. If the play breaks down and moves towards the open sideline, there's no official there. With a wide R, he can cover.
I'm still passing arm side, but I wonder with 5-man if we should be wide side. If we start on the right hash and I'm outside the TE, it's pretty hard to stay on the QB's heels if he rolls away from me.
And the kickoff mechanics -- I always thought Arizona and some other states got it right. Put the H and U on the 5 or the GL at the pylons and don't make it so players cross in front of officials. Last year I was the H on the 30 in a JV game and got blown up cause there was no place for me to go when a play blew up on the sideline. If I had been at the GL, I would've been trailing the play just like we'd like to do on all scrimmage plays.
And finally -- I know this will cause quite a bit of dissention -- but I see little need for the U to still be on the defensive side of the ball. Besides the injuries (my umpire got hurt twice this year and he's a GOOD umpire), I find I have a much better look at holding than a guy who's dodging players constantly. The downside to this is his help on incomplete passes over the middle -- and I admit there's no answer to that one if the U is moved.
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Is it worth remembering, the PRIMARY purpose of Interscholastic sports is the development and education of High School students (and below) not Collegiate or Professional athletes.
Part of what students learn is teamwork, which includes aspiring to, exercising judgment and developing and learning how to respond to leaders. Captains are appointed, which is normally based on some level of accomplishments and being appointed Captain is worthy of both respect from and responsibility to teammates. (life lessons we ALL need to learn)
Ignoring, or disrespecting that achievement sends the WRONG message and devalues the achievement. We've beat this horse to death in past discussions, explaining how EASY it is to involve BOTH the designated Captain, and a coach TO WHATEVER EXTENT NECESSARY, to absolutely insure wrong judgments are non-existent, simply using a minimum of effort and common sense, without sacrificing the respect and accomplishment a Captain has EARNED by virtue of his designation.
Although our "job" is neither to make the process "easier", or involve coaches in penalty decisions, both objectives can be easily, subtly and consistently accomplished, with a minimum of effort, WITHOUT sacrificing the integrity and status earned by team Captains.
The current process was established for good reason.
We've disagreed on this for years, but what's put into the book isn't going to change what we do in practice. I haven't asked a captain in years and neither have any of the top HS crews I've spoken to in the area.
The role of the captain is still important to me, just not in this area.
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I'm still passing arm side, but I wonder with 5-man if we should be wide side. If we start on the right hash and I'm outside the TE, it's pretty hard to stay on the QB's heels if he rolls away from me.
The distance between you and the QB is always the same, regardless of hash, if he rolls away from you. Just in your example, you may have to chase him a longer time if they start on the right hash.
Agree with all other points except about the U. He has LOS responsibilities in 5 man. Additionally, from his position, he can get a good look at second level blocks, which you cannot from the offensive backfield.
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I usually "balance the field" in 5-man & stay passing-arm side in 7-man. Fortunately, our state allows the R to be "in the best position to perform his responsibilities".
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The distance between you and the QB is always the same, regardless of hash, if he rolls away from you. Just in your example, you may have to chase him a longer time if they start on the right hash.
Agree with all other points except about the U. He has LOS responsibilities in 5 man. Additionally, from his position, he can get a good look at second level blocks, which you cannot from the offensive backfield.
I would love to get to 6-man and then consider moving the U. But I agree -- in 5-man the U in the defensive backfield is too important.
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We've disagreed on this for years, but what's put into the book isn't going to change what we do in practice. I haven't asked a captain in years and neither have any of the top HS crews I've spoken to in the area.
The role of the captain is still important to me, just not in this area.
Actually, either method works as effectively in assuring the appropriate decisions are consistently made, the issue becomes one of determining the perceived value of overall objectives.
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Gentlemen:
Let's get this thread back on topic and keep the random chatter out of the discussion. Ralph is looking for specific MECHANICS suggestions. Also keep in mind his request has nothing to do with rule changes.
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But isn't that a part of the issue we're discussing. There are multiple areas in the NFHS rulebook that in reality cover and/or overlap what are actually mechanics issues. Are we saying that we only want to discuss non-rule mechanics suggestions????? I thought that our goal is to do our best for everyone involved to make sure that we get it right and it's pretty clear that there are "mechanics" related items in the rules that could be improved.
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But isn't that a part of the issue we're discussing. There are multiple areas in the NFHS rulebook that in reality cover and/or overlap what are actually mechanics issues. Are we saying that we only want to discuss non-rule mechanics suggestions????? I thought that our goal is to do our best for everyone involved to make sure that we get it right and it's pretty clear that there are "mechanics" related items in the rules that could be improved.
Read the OP.
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Read the OP.
Did that. Actually read the whole thread before I commented. I took the " ..... but we'll still meet as part of NFHS Football Rules Committee." to mean that the work that Ralph would be doing in suggesting mechanics changes would be shared with the rules committee as a whole. Did I read that wrong?
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I believe one has to be on the Rules Committee to be on the Manual and POE "sub-committees" (if you will). I do know they meet at the same time in January, albeit separately. I'm sure Ralph can cast additional light on the procedure(s) when he returns.
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I believe one has to be on the Rules Committee to be on the Manual and POE "sub-committees" (if you will). I do know they meet at the same time in January, albeit separately. I'm sure Ralph can cast additional light on the procedure(s) when he returns.
ADDITIONAL LIGHT : You have to be an official to be on the Game Officials Manual Committee, but not necessarily a member of the Rules Committee. I'm still Maine's rep to the rules committee, but on this topic I was looking for suggestions for the manual. I'll be looking for your opinions/suggestions shortly via "Santa's Wish List" on potential rule changes. Thanks, guys, for your suggestions - I value them.
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When passes are thrown so that it is unclear if they are forward or backward we currently are asked to punch backward only when the wing believes it is a backward pass. There is supposedly no need to punch forward because if it's forward and incomplete, the wing should simply blow it dead. That mechanic works well when every crew member is experienced. But in high school that wingman could be a 1-2 year official. He could have been consistently abused by a cranky coach on his sideline. The fact is, sometimes they either forget to signal or they panic and freeze. Either way, the rest of the crew is left wondering "so what was it? Forward? or Backward?".
It makes more sense to me to change the mechanic to say that the affected wing should punch either forward or backward. Now when your wing doesn't signal anything, you KNOW that there is something wrong.
Again, when you have officials that have met the scrutiny to make it to the NCAA level, this may not be necessary. But at the Federation level, I feel that anything we can do to make sure we're all on the same page, we should do that.
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I agree that the "punch forward" mechanic should be in place for a close throw in case the receiver wants to throw a second pass (and the first one SHOULD have been backwards, but it wasn't) -- however, I'd argue that it shouldn't be a standard mechanic in case of an incomplete pass. You don't want that Year 1/2 official having to do two mechanics in case of an incomplete pass -- just signal incomplete.
You also don't need it for obvious forward passes, so where do you draw the line mechanically?
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If that's the case, let's start signaling when the ballcarrier is beyond the LOS.
We don't have to specifically tell everyone everything. Deductive reasoning is a grand thing.
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When passes are thrown so that it is unclear if they are forward or backward we currently are asked to punch backward only when the wing believes it is a backward pass. There is supposedly no need to punch forward because if it's forward and incomplete, the wing should simply blow it dead. That mechanic works well when every crew member is experienced. But in high school that wingman could be a 1-2 year official. He could have been consistently abused by a cranky coach on his sideline. The fact is, sometimes they either forget to signal or they panic and freeze. Either way, the rest of the crew is left wondering "so what was it? Forward? or Backward?".
It makes more sense to me to change the mechanic to say that the affected wing should punch either forward or backward. Now when your wing doesn't signal anything, you KNOW that there is something wrong.
Again, when you have officials that have met the scrutiny to make it to the NCAA level, this may not be necessary. But at the Federation level, I feel that anything we can do to make sure we're all on the same page, we should do that.
+1
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We have started punching forward or backward for passes behind the LOS. It helps to let everyone (other officials, coaches, players) know what was seen.
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I have heard that the main reason for punching forward was to inform the Back Judge that OPI restrictions on the receivers blocking on the bubble screen are removed. Hence, by punching forward you are telling the crew that the pass was forward and caught behind the LOS. I like this mechanic.
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In our off-year meeting of the Manual Committee, I gave a hard copy of this topic and your responses to the chair. He would review it and respond back to the committee. I'll keep you guys advised.
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In our off-year meeting of the Manual Committee, I gave a hard copy of this topic and your responses to the chair. He would review it and respond back to the committee. I'll keep you guys advised.
Thanks for all your work Ralph, appreciate your attention to this.