Suggestions, anyone?????

[Ralph Damren]

I've been nominated and have accepted a four year position as Section 1(NE states, NY &NJ)  Manual Committee member. 2017 is not a publish year, but we'll still meet as part of NFHS Football Rules Committee and discuss possible mechanics changes and points of emphasis. I would welcome any suggestions that any of you may have.

[AlUpstateNY]

Congratulations and good luck.

[stevestod]

Congratulations Ralph!!  I'm wondering is there a roll call on the voting of any new rules?  Our rules interpreter is getting done and the state representative has never came our meetings to discuss the rules.  thanks 

[Curious]

I've been nominated and have accepted a four year position as Section 1(NE states, NY &NJ)  Manual Committee member. 2017 is not a publish year, but we'll still meet as part of NFHS Football Rules Committee and discuss possible mechanics changes and points of emphasis. I would welcome any suggestions that any of you may have.

By popular vote or NFHS Electoral vote?

Congrats!!

[Curious]

Suggestions

Return someone (B or U) to the middle of the field on Kick-offs.  This can help with any potential errors by K; but, more importantly gives a better look than from the R spot down the middle.  The R and L can be at the
GL/SL corners.

Put the U back where he belongs - not under the goal post on PATs and FGs.  Most crews can adjust to an open side.

Eliminate the "requirement" to speak to the captains for penalty acceptance/declination.

Just warming up!

 
.

[AlUpstateNY]

Suggestions
Eliminate the "requirement" to speak to the captains for penalty acceptance/declination.

Is it worth remembering, the PRIMARY purpose of Interscholastic sports is the development and education of High School students (and below) not Collegiate or Professional athletes. 

Part of what students learn is teamwork, which includes aspiring to, exercising judgment and developing and learning how to respond to leaders.  Captains are appointed, which is normally based on some level of accomplishments and being appointed Captain is worthy of both respect from and responsibility to teammates. (life lessons we ALL need to learn)

Ignoring, or disrespecting that achievement sends the WRONG message and devalues the achievement. We've beat this horse to death in past discussions, explaining how EASY it is to involve BOTH the  designated Captain, and a coach TO WHATEVER EXTENT NECESSARY, to absolutely insure wrong judgments are non-existent, simply using a minimum of effort and common sense, without sacrificing the respect and accomplishment a Captain has EARNED by virtue of his designation.

Although our "job" is neither to make the process "easier", or involve coaches in penalty decisions, both objectives can be easily, subtly and consistently accomplished, with a minimum of effort, WITHOUT sacrificing the integrity and status earned by team Captains.

The current process was established for good reason.

[ncwingman]

Are you using a different set of mechanics than the rest of us? Or am I the weird one?

Return someone (B or U) to the middle of the field on Kick-offs.  This can help with any potential errors by K; but, more importantly gives a better look than from the R spot down the middle.  The R and L can be at the GL/SL corners.

R is not "middle", but he's not on the sideline -- and the BJ comes to the middle after the kick. I'm not sure what you're suggesting here -- keep the B behind the kicker the whole time?

Put the U back where he belongs - not under the goal post on PATs and FGs.  Most crews can adjust to an open side.

As a line judge, I'm always under the post -- R, U and H are in their normal spots and my sideline is "open". I do know that we do deviate from the book mechanic because the LJ is always under the post around these parts -- it's never the HL depending on the side of the kicker as the book suggests. The U is never under the goal posts.

[bossman72]

There was a similar thread a while ago.  Here's what I posted there when asked about areas of the manual that are outdated:

1) Auxiliary signals are not permitted (the "catch" signal, tapping the ground on a pass that skips in, etc).
2) Prelim signals are not permitted by the calling official when he runs into the R.
3) Manual continues to state that the captain must be consulted for penalty options instead of going to the coach or enforcing the foul yourself if the choice is obvious (eg: 15 yard FMM on the defense).
4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.
5) R is required to give preliminary signals.  They should be optional and only given if there is a choice that needs made.
6) Wing officials not going in at an angle to the R on pre-snap fouls.  If the U has a flag, they should meet in the offensive backfield.
7) R's alignment is too tight to the offensive formation instead of being wide.
8) R's alignment is too close to the LOS on punt plays.  Should be behind the kicker.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks, guys, for your interesting inputs. Like your suggestions on potential rule changes that will be available shortly, I'll bring your feedback to windy Indy with me in January. Several of you commented on removing the "ask the captains" on penalty options. That would require a rule change and I submitted one a couple of years ago. It failed to make it out of subcommittee with the responses of : "High school teaches kids to be leaders and leaders should be asked to make decisions." and "there is no foul for the coach to voice his choice when within hearing distance of your meeting with the captain."

The manual currently sends the wing from the side facing the front of the holder (and backside of the WH) under the pipes on kick try/FG formations. I would like to expand that to keep said wing at the goal line if a team breaks into a "swinging gate" formation to his side. If the big ole' Bubba linemen then reset, the wing will still have ample time to grab his post.

No, Curious, it wasn't a voting decision as there wasn't any opponent. The NFHS ask the state associations in Section 1 for nominations. The Maine Principals' Association nominated me while the other "New" (New England, New York & New Jersey) states didn't respond. I've been on committee before (I'll still remain on the Rules Committee) and am looking forward to the involvement. Please keep your suggestions coming.

[ncwingman]

The manual currently sends the wing from the side facing the front of the holder (and backside of the WH) under the pipes on kick try/FG formations. I would like to expand that to keep said wing at the goal line if a team breaks into a "swinging gate" formation to his side. If the big ole' Bubba linemen then reset, the wing will still have ample time to grab his post.

Again... that's just what we do, so I'd support this "change".

If A lines up "for two", it's just standard scrimmage play mechanics and I'm on the LOS. If they then shift into a kick formation, then I'm shifting to under the posts.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

No, Curious, it wasn't a voting decision as there wasn't any opponent. The NFHS ask the state associations in Section 1 for nominations. The Maine Principals' Association nominated me while the other "New" (New England, New York & New Jersey) states didn't respond. I've been on committee before (I'll still remain on the Rules Committee) and am looking forward to the involvement. Please keep your suggestions coming.

The NY interpreter is new this year; he may not have been aware of this at the time...

[Rulesman]

The NY interpreter is new this year; he may not have been aware of this at the time...

He snooze; he lose. 

[Curious]

Are you using a different set of mechanics than the rest of us? Or am I the weird one?

R is not "middle", but he's not on the sideline -- and the BJ comes to the middle after the kick. I'm not sure what you're suggesting here -- keep the B behind the kicker the whole time?

As a line judge, I'm always under the post -- R, U and H are in their normal spots and my sideline is "open". I do know that we do deviate from the book mechanic because the LJ is always under the post around these parts -- it's never the HL depending on the side of the kicker as the book suggests. The U is never under the goal posts.

Just to clarify, in Michigan, our Kick-off and PAT/FG mechanics are apparently different than the FED. On kick-offs, we have the R on the GL in the middle of the field and the H and U at the 20.  The U is on the sideline opposite the PB and the B (after handing the kicker the ball) is on the PB sideline.

On PATs/FGs, the U and B are on their respective posts. The wings stay in their normal positions with the R having kicker/holder responsibility.

Not exactly sure why these mechanics have been altered from the FED book; but it's what we have to deal with.   

[bama_stripes]

On kick-offs, we have the R on the GL in the middle of the field and the H and U at the 20.  The U is on the sideline opposite the PB and the B (after handing the kicker the ball) is on the PB sideline.
   

That's strange.  If U is opposite the PB at the 20 (chains side), H is on PB side & then has to go across the field after the kickoff?  Same with L and B.

[Ralph Damren]

Just to clarify, in Michigan, our Kick-off and PAT/FG mechanics are apparently different than the FED. On kick-offs, we have the R on the GL in the middle of the field and the H and U at the 20.  The U is on the sideline opposite the PB and the B (after handing the kicker the ball) is on the PB sideline.

On PATs/FGs, the U and B are on their respective posts. The wings stay in their normal positions with the R having kicker/holder responsibility.

Not exactly sure why these mechanics have been altered from the FED book; but it's what we have to deal with.   

Like 'Bama, I'm confused why a FK mechanic would HL crossing the field to join his chain crew after the play. When we put the roughing the snapper rule in back in 1996, it was the general assumption that this would predominately be the umpire's call. Putting him under a post and focusing on the ensuing kick would make such a call a challenge.

[Curious]

Sorry guys, poor typist (and too many hot totties last night).  On FKs, the H is opposite the PB.  The U is on the PB side at the 50.  The H and L are on the R20 yard line to start.  The B takes his final position on the K40 opposite the PB after handing the ball to the kicker.  The R is on the GL in the middle of the field

This leaves a big hole in the middle IMHO.  Touching on grounded kicks down the middle is difficult to pick up from 40-50 yards away (R) or from the sidelines - which really is my point.

The PAT/FG mechanic remains confusing to all of us.  We often need oxygen for the U on long field goal attempts; and it's tricky for the R to watch the snapper and then the kicker/holder.     

[ncwingman]

Sorry guys, poor typist (and too many hot totties last night).  On FKs, the H is opposite the PB.  The U is on the PB side at the 50.  The H and L are on the R20 yard line to start.  The B takes his final position on the K40 opposite the PB after handing the ball to the kicker.  The R is on the GL in the middle of the field

This leaves a big hole in the middle IMHO.  Touching on grounded kicks down the middle is difficult to pick up from 40-50 yards away (R) or from the sidelines - which really is my point.

The PAT/FG mechanic remains confusing to all of us.  We often need oxygen for the U on long field goal attempts; and it's tricky for the R to watch the snapper and then the kicker/holder.   

Disregarding who is where, the Fed mechanic differs mainly that the U is on the 20 and the H is on the 30 (instead of two officials on the 20). To fill the hole, I see two main options -- a) Move the H up to the 35 and he splits the difference between the U and L or b) Add more officials. Something tells me that Option A is more likely.

[sir55]

The NFHS needs to put together a 6 man mechanic manual. More schools are going to the 6 man officiating crews and there is not a uniform 6 man mechanic manual. Some state associations have put together their own versions of a manual as have local associations, but it would be nice to have one manual from NFHS so that there is consistency across the board and piecemeal manuals would go by the wayside.

[Jackhammer]

FG/PAT mechanic with R facing holder/kicker and pushing wing under works...a swinging gate, subsequent shift and long FG challenge us, but it's a rarity.  On a broken play to the uncovered side U has GL (or LTG) responsibility and R has sideline responsibility.  I like R being very wide, the numbers or so, for this coverage, don't know if that fits in the 3-5 yards.  What is the signal for a scrimmage kick formation?  Book says to signal, but gives no prescribed signal....we used radio this year.

Need to begin thinking about proper use of communications devices.  This was our first year using walkie talkie and communicating fouls, double stakes, clock stopper, scrimmage kick formation, etc. were the most prevalent and beneficial uses.

Consider language that is not so prescriptive on free kicks.  There's no one "right" place to be on kick-offs, positions can and need to be adjusted based on K's abilities and weather conditions.

Are R's working at 10 yards deep anymore?  We're all at least 12-15.  I guess that's "approximately 10".

Are U's working 4-7 anymore?  I think we're all positioning in the 6-8 range these days.

[stevegarbs]

The NFHS needs to put together a 6 man mechanic manual. More schools are going to the 6 man officiating crews and there is not a uniform 6 man mechanic manual. Some state associations have put together their own versions of a manual as have local associations, but it would be nice to have one manual from NFHS so that there is consistency across the board and piecemeal manuals would go by the wayside.

No, no, a thousand times no. Six man sucks. Go to seven or stay at five.


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[NJOfficial]

No, no, a thousand times no. Six man sucks. Go to seven or stay at five.


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Six is much better then five. Unless they send 5 WR's out all the receivers have an official on them the whole time and there is always an official on the pylon on a TD.

[sir55]

It really does not matter if five or seven is better than six, the state has decided that they are going to use six during the season and the first rounds of the playoffs, then seven for the 2 final rounds of the playoffs. It would be helpful to have the NFHS put together a six and seven man mechanic manual. The way it is now, there is no uniformity between the different parts of the state as to what the mechanics will be. The state is of no use, just dictated that we will use six man mechanics with no mechanic issued. In our part of the state, we are using a blended version of the six man mechanic used by NJ, Ga, La, and Pa. In other parts of the state, who knows where they come from.

[Ralph Damren]

Back before the turn of the century the manual carried only 3 & 4 man mechanics. When the decision was made to add 5- man, it forced the need to hull out 3- man. Where 3- man is still used in many sub-varsity settings, it is available on the NFHS website. Our chapter prints 3- man and supplies to our sub-varsity officials and all seems to go well. The day we add 6-man will probably be the day we hull out 4-man. Until the majority of states use 6-man in regular season, I feel only 4 & 5-man will be covered. Maine uses 4 & 5-man during regular season, 5-man in playoffs and 7-man in championship games.

When that day arrives that we add 6-man; the clamor will then begin to add 7-man.

We supply our officials working the championship games with 7-man and the game is preceded by a strong pre-game on working the line wings and deep wings. Seems to work.

[FBUmp]

4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, the R isn't allowed to announce numbers over the microphone, although I think they may have changed this.

Yes, this was changed. Numbers can be announced.

[Ralph Damren]

Yes, this was changed. Numbers can be announced.

Usually the fouling team's coach will want to know who fouled. Whispering; "it was #76,coach" didn't seem necessary where ,in round ball, the fouling player's number is posted in flashing neon lights. If the foul was on the visiting team, I'll usually yell his number to the visiting sidelines after I announced it along with proper signal to the press box.