Author Topic: When you think you've seen it all you find out you haven't.....  (Read 1559 times)

Offline Ralph Damren

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American Legion (OBR rules) last night with this occurring.....

  (1) R1 @ 1st, one out;
  (2) BR hits short fly towards shallow RF;
  (3) 1BM,2BM & RF are trying to catch it;
  (4) R1 is 1/3 of way towards 2B;
  (5) 2BM appears to make catch, but then drops it;
  (6) R1, thinking it was caught heads back to 1st;
  (7) BR rounds 1st and passes retreating R1;
  (8) I'm on the dish and point at BR and signal out;
  (9) RF picks up ball and throws to 2nd;
  (10) Base ump signals out on force;
  (11) As the fielders leave the field :
       (a) BR's coach berates him for passing lead runner;
       (b) I start to ponder... :the force was removed when BR was out....IF....BR was out before
            the throw to 2nd....BUT....if the throw to 2nd occurred before BR passing, he would only
            be passing a retired runner & not out...Either way, no DP....UNLESS....R1 was ruled out
            for "giving up", as he did after the throw to 2nd... :o :( ??? ::)

  As my pondering finished, I noticed the team that was at bat was now in the field and ready to play. I
decided this would be a secret I'd keep to myself ;)...until postgame with my partner....and now you guys.

Any opinions as to how you would handle this????????

  IT'S FRIDAY...OFF TO OUR LAKESIDE COTTAGE...TO SIP CLAM BROTH MARTINI ,WATCH OUR HUNTTING DAWG SWIM...AND REPLAY THIS PLAY...OVER AND OVER.... :!#

  I WOULD NOT PLACE THIS PLAY ON MY "BUCKET LIST"

 I WOULD PLACE THIS PLAY ON MY " *&#UCKIT LIST"...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 07:46:18 AM by Ralph Damren »

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: When you think you've seen it all you find out you haven't.....
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 07:53:07 AM »
I would have placed R1 at second with two outs, using 9.01(c).

The defense is just as responsible for knowing when a force is removed as the umpires.

Offline bossman72

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Re: When you think you've seen it all you find out you haven't.....
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 08:39:10 AM »
Well if you were aware of it at the time, call "Time" and fix it.  Put R1 back on first.  2 outs.

If you truly didn't recognize it until after the teams have fully changed, then yeah, probably just eat that mistake.  :)

Offline Atlanta Blue

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Re: When you think you've seen it all you find out you haven't.....
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 08:59:00 AM »
Based on the timing shown, BU was wrong.  And it really doesn't matter when the THROW was made, it matters when the tag of 2B was made.
     a) if the BR had already passed R1, then R1 wasn't forced, and there is no out at 2B
     b) if the BR had not yet passed R1, then R1 was out, but the BR wasn't.

But in neither case was there 2 outs.  There is no way I would go with an abandonment call, since it was the BU that "told" the runners that the inning was over.

If you realized it before there was a pitch in the next half inning, fix it.  Put one of the base runners back on 1B (based on when you think the passing occurred), 2 outs, play on.   I don't care if the batting team had already gone to the field, there hasn't been another pitch.  You still had time to fix the mistake, fix it.

If you didn't realize it until there had been a pitch, well, you missed one, learn from it.  If approached by a coach, don't hide from it, admit it, apologize and say, "Coach, I wish you would have said something earlier, you could have saved me a big mistake."  Let's him know you are still taking the blame, but in a subtle way, let's him know he could have done something to fix it.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: When you think you've seen it all you find out you haven't.....
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 07:36:14 AM »
Thanks, guys, for your input. I agree that I had until the next pitch was thrown to correct it, but "chickened out". While I was beginning to realize that we had fouled it up, I was uncertain as to how to correct it. In NFHS, it would have been easy , as 10-2-1(L) states : "Rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team at a disadvantage." But in OBR no such critter exists and I've read somewhere, that in OBR, the player's responsibility to know the proper rulings even if the umpire goofs :o :( >:(. In retrospect my choices could have been:

 (1) Announce the blunder and place R1 back on 1st w/2 out and apply 9.01c - baseball's answer to football's 1-1-6.
 (2) Announce the blunder and place BR @ 1st w/2 out if felt force occurred first. Apply 9.01c.
 (3) Announce the blunder and declare R1 out for abandonment, as he should have known more about baseball than we umps did.
 (4) Whistle "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" ,while waiting for that first pitch to be thrown......

IMHO, 1-3 probably would have involved a lengthy discussion. Anytime you involve 9.01c, you improve your chances to the "shorted" coach asking to play the game under protest. Other subconscious reasons for my decision (or lack thereof) .......

   The team "shorted an out" was up 6-1 (and won).....
     It was raining....
       I was cold.......& hungry eAt&

EXCUSES ARE FOR LOSERS...I MADE A MISTAKE ,ONE THAT I WON'T MAKE AGAIN..."IT'S A GREAT DAY, LET'S PLAY TWO!"  Cub's EB..