Suggestion Box

[Ralph Damren]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ?

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?

40 " clock ?

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

    :

[scrounge]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics: It's absolutely great to have the opportunity to offer our $0.02, thanks

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?  When the day comes that eliminating the KO is seriously on the table, then I'd propose that the receiving team get the ball on 25 UNLESS the kicking team chooses to onside kick. Then, treat the R40 yd line just like the goal line - if the ball goes past it, it's a touchback and R gets the ball on the 50. It preserves the onside for for the rare situations needed, mollifying coaches, but cuts way down on number of kicks. If this isn't that time, one tweak could be that all K players have to be motionless till the ball is kicked, like the new NFL rule, to reduce runup velocities.

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ? YES!! Making it immediate is already a requirement, no difference there

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ? Sure, but I share the concern over ease of judgment across the full range of HS officials. Not a huge priority IMO.

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ? Generally yes, but not if it involves a ton of exceptions, for the same ease of administration reasons.

40 " clock ? Allow by state adoption....if LA wants it, don't force it on ME

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ? YES. Not only aligns with other codes but makes administration easier

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ? It doesn't much matter, we're all asking the coach in reality anyway

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

    :

[CalhounLJ]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ? NO COMMENT

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ? YES

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ? YES

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?  YES

40 " clock ?  NO NO NO!

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ? YES

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ? YES

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

    :

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Morningrise]

I am in favor of any rule change that brings NFHS rules closer to NCAA. Sincerely, a Massachusetts official 

[bawags06]

I have gone back and forth on the IG outside the tackle box issue. On one hand, I think that the defense should be rewarded for playing well enough to force a sack or a risky pass. On the other hand, a quarter back who is on the run and looking to throw is very vulnerable--as are any receivers near the area of a desperation pass. If a receiver needs to jump up or dive, he is especially at risk. We have taken steps in other areas of the game to eliminate unnecessary hits--especially hits to vulnerable players.

I have come to the conclusion that allowing the passer to throw the ball away is probably the best solution in keeping with our emphasis on player safety. The loss of down with no gain will have to be victory enough for the defense. Stopping a run for no gain is treated as a success, so this should be too.

Of course, enforcement will be the issue, as usual. I presume it will be up to the WH to determine that the passer was outside of the "tackle box"--which we will now have to define. But, who's job is it to make sure the ball passes the LOS? Still the WH? I guess, but he's not actually on the LOS. I suppose that he has the LOS for any other IFP calls, so it makes sense, but it will be pretty tough in five-man. We will also need a new set of "When in doubt" rules...

[FLAHL]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?   I'm OK with any changes the committee makes, or no changes at all.

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ?  Yes

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?  No - very difficult to enforce with 5 man mechanics.

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?  No - solution in search of a problem.

40 " clock ? No.  We'll be in for 2+ years of confused officials, coaches, and players.  Another solution in search of a problem.

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?  I've been in favor of this for years.  Asking this is like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown.  Is THIS the year that is happens?  I doubt it.   

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?  Already do this, so would be nice if I had rule support. 

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

Thanks for reaching out for input Ralph.  Have fun in Indy!

[ncwingman]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?

If there's any serious discussion to removing the free kick entirely, have a serious discussion about the Schiano Rule. You should not reduce high school down to youth leagues where you just award the ball at a certain yard line, like an automatic touchback.

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ?

No. Outside of laziness, there's no reason for this to be considered. The "Well, my QB never goes under center" is not convincing to me... and really, it would make the fake spike play easier to pull off.

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?

If and only if "outside the tackle box" is obviously defined. If there is any question of whether or not the QB was outside the tackle box, then he's still in the tackle box. I don't want R/U having to nitpick where the tackles lined up.

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?

Yes. Offensive holding ending up being a 15+ yard penalty when it occurs behind the LOS seems excessive.

40 " clock ?

Absolutely no. Solution in search of a problem, and will likely make more problems in terms of implementation. I work at schools that don't have 25" clocks still, and I don't know if the ones that do have the ability (technology or financing) to upgrade.

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?

Yes. Yes. Yes. 4 backs + 6 linesmen is not an advantage for the offense.

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

It's what we do 90% of the time there's a complex call anyway. Might as well put it in writing.

[Ralph Damren]

I am in favor of any rule change that brings NFHS rules closer to NCAA. Sincerely, a Massachusetts official 

Even the 40" clock  ? I understand that when adopted by the NCAA in 2007, the MIAA chose not to use it. I started under NCAA back in Connecticut in 1969 for two years. Connecticut was a NCAA state until 1979. Moving to Maine, I didn't find learning the NFHS code too challenging - there was (and is today) fewer exceptions that are needed to grasp. I've several friends that have moved to the college level and tell me that learning the difference was much more challenging then  learning the NFHS at the start. If you are a white hat, the biggest challenge will be in penalty enforcement for, as of a few years ago, NCAA had 70+ exceptions while NFHS had 18. If you are not refereeing, you may wish to focus on the differences that deal with your coverages. Feel free to PM me if I can help.

[bossman72]

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?
They're already about as safe as you can get.

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ?
Yes. The argument that he could read the defense vs a hand to hand snap is not realistic at the high school level.  If there is any hesitation, it's a foul for ING.  Just like a hand to hand snap.

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?
I actually like the current rule.  Rewards the defense for a good play.  We don't need to protect the QB from legal hits.  Plus there is a lot of communication that needs to happen between LOS officials (and I guess the U in 5 and 4 man) and the R to properly rule.  Then you have to define "tackle box."  Then you also have to define "neutral zone extended" because often times the pass crosses the sideline behind the LOS but lands beyond the LOS.  But, if it changes, it would cut down on the rabble rabble from coaches and fans since the majority of them don't know the rule.

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?
I like the previous rule I had drawn up where if the run ends behind the LOS, the basic spot is the previous spot.  Won't solve the problem for offensive fouls, but will solve it for defensive fouls.  Will also clean up definitions of loose ball and run.  All fumbles and backward passes would be runs.
A fouls being previous spot creates too many exceptions to all-but-one.

40 " clock ?
States that tried it seem to like it a lot, and I would be good with it.  I won't be sad if they never change it though.

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?
Absolutely!  It's actually easier to officiate because you don't have to worry about the offensive count.

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?
Absolutely!!!  Put into rule the practice that has been done for years.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks for reaching out for input Ralph.  Have fun in Indy!

I fully enjoy the friendships kindled and the football knowledge gained in Indy, BUT this time of year I would prefer St. Pete Beach  !

[Ralph Damren]

I have gone back and forth on the IG outside the tackle box issue. On one hand, I think that the defense should be rewarded for playing well enough to force a sack or a risky pass. On the other hand, a quarter back who is on the run and looking to throw is very vulnerable--as are any receivers near the area of a desperation pass. If a receiver needs to jump up or dive, he is especially at risk. We have taken steps in other areas of the game to eliminate unnecessary hits--especially hits to vulnerable players.

I have come to the conclusion that allowing the passer to throw the ball away is probably the best solution in keeping with our emphasis on player safety. The loss of down with no gain will have to be victory enough for the defense. Stopping a run for no gain is treated as a success, so this should be too.

Of course, enforcement will be the issue, as usual. I presume it will be up to the WH to determine that the passer was outside of the "tackle box"--which we will now have to define. But, who's job is it to make sure the ball passes the LOS? Still the WH? I guess, but he's not actually on the LOS. I suppose that he has the LOS for any other IFP calls,
so it makes sense, but it will be pretty tough in five-man. We will also need a new set of "When in doubt" rules...

In NCAA 7 man mechanics , one of up wings holds the LOS and aids in the call. State championship games excluded, the only way we have 7 man crews is if we count the chain gang  !

[Derek Teigen]

Hi Ralph I can’t speak to any of your points except how to make the free kicks safer.
It seems to me the only way is to slow down the play but the fields are faster and so are the kids.  There doesn’t seem to be as many issues on punts.  The ball hangs in the air longer and doesn’t go as far. 

1.  make the free kicks into punts?

2.  If not punts then kick as usual but make the ball dead upon r or k possessing.  This would encourage kicker development to kick the ball deeper.
Also it would introduce more strategy like kick the 10 yard line for example.  Receiver must decide to possess or let go for possible touchbacks
It’s a problem I agree as the game, the players and the equipment have made for faster play.

[bossman72]

Just remember for the previous spot enforcement, ING rule, and 40 sec clock...

The NFHS sucks at writing new rules.

So we will have the first year of the rule be a s*** show.  Then MAYBE it gets revised in year 2, and usually all of the kinks don't get worked out.

(See tack on rule this year)

[riffraft]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ? No real Idea

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ? Wishy washy on this one

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?No, too much advantage to the offense and would be inconsistently judge

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ? Like the enforcement they way it is

40 " clock ? NO

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?ABSOLUTELY

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?No need it is already done without the rule

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

    :

[Grant - AR]

If and only if "outside the tackle box" is obviously defined. If there is any question of whether or not the QB was outside the tackle box, then he's still in the tackle box. I don't want R/U having to nitpick where the tackles lined up.

What if the rule said "Outside the hash marks" instead of tackle box?  There would be advantages and disadvantages of this, but the hash marks would give a definite boundary that would be easier to officiate.

[Willis]

A concern with:  A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?

Do you make an exception for fouls in the end zone?  Say A snaps from their own 1, their offense has little incentive not to hold when protecting a QB trying to pass from his own end zone if the only penalty is half-the-distance. 

[FLAHL]

What if the rule said "Outside the hash marks" instead of tackle box?  There would be advantages and disadvantages of this, but the hash marks would give a definite boundary that would be easier to officiate.

That would work if they snapped the ball from the middle of the field.  It wouldn't work if they snapped from either hash.  The QB could take one step right or left and be outside the hash.

[bawags06]

That would work if they snapped the ball from the middle of the field.  It wouldn't work if they snapped from either hash.  The QB could take one step right or left and be outside the hash.

Not to mention the fact that some of our more rural schools seem to have trouble painting the hash marks in such a way that they are visible during live action play from field level. They can be hard enough to find when spotting the ball for a new play!

[prab]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?  Leave as is

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ?  NO! If this is considered to be a good idea, why not simply allow QB to tell Ref that he wants to trade a down for a clock stoppage and not even snap the ball?

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?  NO!

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?  NO

40 " clock ?  State adoption

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?  YES!!!

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?  YES!

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

    :

[OSU65]

Just curious. Is the NFHS definition of "tackle box" different from the NCAA one as described in the attachment?

[prab]

Just curious. Is the NFHS definition of "tackle box" different from the NCAA one as described in the attachment?

As of now, the NFHS does not define "tackle box".  But then, the NFHS doesn't define "in bounds" either.

[ncwingman]

What if the rule said "Outside the hash marks" instead of tackle box?  There would be advantages and disadvantages of this, but the hash marks would give a definite boundary that would be easier to officiate.

I was trying to come up with a good suggestion to put there, but couldn't state it succinctly, or a scenario that could really be universal. As FLAHL pointed out, if the ball is snapped from the hash mark, then outside the hash marks doesn't make much sense. In that case, maybe outside the numbers on that side of the field, but outside the hash on the other... but what if the ball is more middle of the field? Then that seems inconsistent at best.

I know I don't have a solid solution, but just want to avoid coaches screaming about the tackle box (either way) based on interpretation (and how the coach on the sideline really has the best view of lateral field position, and not the official in the backfield...  )

[Regno71]

What can we do to make free kicks safer ? No running start on K, they line up on the free kick line stationary.

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ? No

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ? NO, too difficult with 5 man mechanics.

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ? Please no, just stick with All-but-one

40 " clock ? Eh, neutral on this.

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ? YES

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ? Yes

[GA Umpire]

I'm off to Windy Indy on Sunday (will arrive for the 2nd half of the Patriot game) and would welcome any suggestions\ opinions you may have of the following topics:

What can we do to make free kicks safer ?

Should we allow QB to spike from the shotgun ?

No IG if QB outside tackle box & pass goes over LOS ?

A fouls behind LOS = previous spot enforcement ?

40 " clock ?

Foul for 5 backs , not 6 linesmen ?

Ask EITHER captain or coach on penalty acceptance ?

Your suggestions or opinions will help me defend or rebut potential rule changes. Thanks in advance....

    :

1.  KOs:  Can make a fair catch and get the ball at the 20.

2.  QB from Shot gun:  No.

3.  Outside T/B:  Leave as is.  It may be easy with 6 or 7 man crews, but not with 4 or 5.

4.  Fouls behind los:  No.  Leave as is.

5. 40 Sec Clock:  Not nationwide, but by state adoption only.

6.  5 Backs:  Yes.

7.  Ask capt or coach:  As others have said, we do that already.

[CalhounLJ]

IMO, the “tackle box” issue can be mostly solved by using the definition of the free blocking zone. While it’s still subjective, at least we have a point of reference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk