Another New Rule

[prab]

I learned another new rule from a coach today.  15 yard face mask foul includes an automatic first down.  I have been blowing that call for years.  Now I can get it right.  Thanks coach!

[ncwingman]

I'm surprised you just learned that one.

I blame the NFL where it's easier to list the defensive fouls that DON'T include an automatic first down than list those that do.

Rule 14-1-2:

Item 5. Foul by Team B. After a penalty for a foul by Team B prior to (between downs) or during a play from scrimmage, the
ensuing down is first-and-10 for Team A.
Exceptions:
(1) Offside
(2) Encroachment
(3) Neutral zone infraction
(4) Delay of game
(5) Illegal substitution
(6) Excess time out
(7) Running into the kicker
(8) More than 11 players on the field at the snap
(9) More than 11 players in the formation prior to the snap
(10) Illegal formation by the defense during a scrimmage kick play

For all of the Fed rule and regulations that are picked up because they do it on TV, I hope they don't start doing automatic first downs for everything.

[MSWBKLYN]

In Fed only automatic 1st downs start with the words "roughing the"

[CalhounLJ]

I heard this one from a fan Friday night: Roughing the kicker is NOT a first down!  Y’all need to learn the rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ilyazhito]

I learned another new rule from a coach today.  15 yard face mask foul includes an automatic first down.  I have been blowing that call for years.  Now I can get it right.  Thanks coach!

That was never the NFHS rule, even when pass interference did grant an automatic 1st down.


However, for consistency's sake, I would make all 15-yard fouls  (personal fouls, UNS, and DPI) by B automatic 1st downs (in NCAA, all personal fouls by B (if not in conflict with other rules), DPI, unsportsmanlike conduct fouls by B (if not in conflict with other rules), and fouls on receivers beyond the  neutral zone on a forward pass give an automatic 1st down) if not in conflict with other rules.

[HLinNC]

Years ago a visiting team coach proceeds to inform me that OPI didn't carry loss of down, which it did back then, as our white hat and U were assessing said penalty.  I said "Oh, yes it does".   He persisted in his disagreement and I finally said "Coach, I am making an exorbitant amount of money tonight to KNOW that OPI carries a loss of down."

 I finally got him convinced when his local radio station sideline reporter, who was behind us in the team box, says in a very whiny voice, "But OPI doesn't have a loss of down."     "Would you like to work behind the fence or over here?" I ask.   He chose wisely.

[Ralph Damren]

A possible response to a coach : "Coach, when you and I make it to the NFL, you would be right  !"
I once had a coach respond : "Ayuh, 'spect the closet you and I will git to the NFL is from our chairs in front of the TV.  "
My rebuttal : "Ayuh, 'spect so, 'til then our only auto 1st down fouls are the roughing ones  "

You can say much more with a  than a  .

Auto 1st down has been proposed several times. IMHO, some reasons for its failure are :
(1) A balance between O & D is always a concern and this would aid the offense.
(2) To offset the AFD if by D, LOD should be added if foul by O.
(3) It would cheapen the AFD fouls that now protecting players that are very defenseless. 

[CalhounLJ]

To counter this critique of coaches- I worked a jv game Monday night with a wing from another crew. He was complaining about his white hat not knowing the rules: “we had DPI on a TD by A. My WH let them keep the score AND we marked the penalty off on the Kickoff. I argued with him all night about that. “ 🤪🤪🤪🤦‍♂️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AlUpstateNY]

You can say much more with a  than a  . 

ABSOLUTELY!  ( If the smile doesn't work, you can always turn it into a frown, if it becomes necessary.)

[brettjr2005]

To counter this critique of coaches- I worked a jv game Monday night with a wing from another crew. He was complaining about his white hat not knowing the rules: “we had DPI on a TD by A. My WH let them keep the score AND we marked the penalty off on the Kickoff. I argued with him all night about that. “ 🤪🤪🤪🤦‍♂️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TBF, the rule is a bit silly logically.  If you would have to decline the penalty on any other part of the field in order to get the result of the play then the same should apply to TDs.  But regardless of our opinions on the rules, any high school official should know something as simple as TD enforcement rules.  Especially an official that is apparently so sure of his knowledge that he's bad mouthing his own WH 

[CalhounLJ]

TBF, the rule is a bit silly logically.  If you would have to decline the penalty on any other part of the field in order to get the result of the play then the same should apply to TDs.  But regardless of our opinions on the rules, any high school official should know something as simple as TD enforcement rules.  Especially an official that is apparently so sure of his knowledge that he's bad mouthing his own WH 

Had it again last night. DPI on a TD. Coach was like, "Don't they have to decline the foul to keep the score?" I'm like, "Coach, they changed that rule back in 2011 or 2012." He was like, "That makes no sense..."

[chriscwilson]

If I had a nickel for every time I heard "but he was outside the tackle box" as the quarterback is throwing the ball out of bounds without a receiver in the area, I wouldn't have to work anymore games. 

[CalhounLJ]

Lol. We had that too. I threw the flag for intentional grounding, Coach was like, “ but the ball crossed the line of scrimmage.” I’m like, ok?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SouthGARef]

TBF, the rule is a bit silly logically.  If you would have to decline the penalty on any other part of the field in order to get the result of the play then the same should apply to TDs.  But regardless of our opinions on the rules, any high school official should know something as simple as TD enforcement rules.  Especially an official that is apparently so sure of his knowledge that he's bad mouthing his own WH 

Yes, this rule doesn't make any sense logically. The rule should be that any foul against the opponent of the scoring team that would normally be enforced from the end of the run may be carried over.

[VALJ]

A possible response to a coach : "Coach, when you and I make it to the NFL, you would be right  !"
I once had a coach respond : "Ayuh, 'spect the closet you and I will git to the NFL is from our chairs in front of the TV.  "

I used this one with a coach I was getting along well with...

"Coach, neither one of us is getting paid enough for this game for offensive pass interference to come with a loss of down."   

[CalhounLJ]

May I suggest an editorial change for next year? Can we bold the word NONCONTACT in front of the face guarding exemption? Coach went ballistic on us Friday night. We called DPI. His defender attempted to face guard the receiver, but in the process ran over him before the ball arrived. He was like- do you guys even read the rule book?  Geez. Btw, just got the hudl film on it. No doubt about the contact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BIG DON]

CalhounLJ must have been working the same game 😎

Heard nearly the same thing on a DPI we had Friday

[brettjr2005]

Just echoing DON's and Calhoun's experiences: first game of the year, JV game, two players on the same team attempted to face guard and ran over the receiver in the process.  Both complained with "but isn't face guading legal?!?!"  After the second one, I took a few seconds to clearly explain to the defense that face guarding is legal but once you make contact while you're not playing the ball, then it's going to start raining    . 

It seems that more than a couple coaches took the rule change to mean "anything that happens is legal as long as you're face guarding." 

[fcardon99]

I was informed of a new rule in an 8th grade game a week ago.  Offense had two guys going in motion at the snap.  Also, when the quarter back sent the guys in motion that's when the lineman go from a 2 point stance to a three point stance.  I throw my flag for a live ball illegal shift.  Coach wants an explanation.  I inform him about the 2 motion guys and added, "Your lineman also have to be set before you send anyone in motion unless everyone is going to stop for a full second".  He had a strange look on his face but then his assistant walked over and told the coach, "It doesn't matter how many are moving at the snap".  Well that was news to me.  You learn something new  every day.

[ncwingman]

No, you see, that's the loophole they are exploiting. It's a foul to have *two* men in motion simultaneously, but there's nothing in the rule book about *seven*.

[Tom.OH]

No, you see, that's the loophole they are exploiting. It's a foul to have *two* men in motion simultaneously, but there's nothing in the rule book about *seven*.

  +1

[HLinNC]

Here's an oldy but a goody.  Two A backs shift and set into new positions, all 11 A players are subsequently set for one second or more.  B's coach on my sideline goes bonkers, "Two men in motion, they can't do that." 

"Coach under your theory, we could never huddle."

His offensive coordinator actually chuckled and had to turn away.

Of course, later in the half, he wanted a 10 second run off for a false start by his opponent.

[CalhounLJ]

I think I know that guy. Had his game last week. 🧐


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HLinNC]

Could be.  I know he's not at that particular school anymore.  Former Panther Brad Hoover coaches them now.

[ncwingman]

I heard this one from a fan Friday night: Roughing the kicker is NOT a first down!  Y’all need to learn the rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had a related one this past week (also from a fan). Kicker muffs the snap, picks it up deep in his own end zone, runs around a bit... and then manages to get a kick off, whereupon he is tackled pretty hard. Easiest RTK call in history.

From a fan in the stands -- "That's not roughing! The ball hit the ground!"