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Football Officiating => Texas Topics => Topic started by: TXMike on October 21, 2010, 06:12:18 AM
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According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability" . He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules. Wonder if that is what he told the schools cause many of the coaches seem to think it is a lot more than that.
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According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability" . He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules. Wonder if that is what he told the schools cause many of the coaches seem to think it is a lot more than that.
^flag
TXMike: It is all too apparent that the tiphat: Good UIL Dr. has told so many versions of so many stories to so many people, that a seasoned stenographer with a tape-recorder would exercise extreme difficulty in attempting to keep up with him! z^
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UIL has made it abundantly clear that their version of "accountability" is the UIL having the ability to punish or call out officials, and offer to the coaches a road to complain about officials.
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Apparently not something they chose to share with the judge yesterday
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According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability" . He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules.
...Good UIL Dr. has told so many versions of so many stories to so many people...
This is excellent news!
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He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules.
So did anyone get to say, umm judge they already do this? Online tests and our renewal form at the end of the year?
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^flag
Got word that one of our posters who just happens to work for a rather large Harris County school district got his chops busted by that particular school district for posting on here why it was that he was being compelled to register with the UIL. Seems like he was forced to offer written apologies not only to his employing school district, but also to the tiphat: UIL Circus Ringmaster and his :!# Hurdy-Gurdy Jumper, as well as the rest of the crowd over there on Manor Road!
Now that's what I'd call "accountability!" Or would plain old "vindictiveness" be a more appropriate moniker? z^
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^flag
Got word that one of our posters who just happens to work for a rather large Harris County school district got his chops busted by that particular school district for posting on here why it was that he was being compelled to register with the UIL. Seems like he was forced to offer written apologies not only to his employing school district, but also to the tiphat: UIL Circus Ringmaster and his :!# Hurdy-Gurdy Jumper, as well as the rest of the crowd over there on Manor Road!
Now that's what I'd call "accountability!" Or would plain old "vindictiveness" be a more appropriate moniker? z^
Wow! I get enough of this type of garbage at work, maybe I will just take up golf instead. :!#
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Well my boss agrees with me that the UIL is over steeping it's bounds and he agrees with my decision not to register.
Of course I am self employed so I have a sympathetic ear. It ashame that HISD is jacking with him
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According to a courtroom observer yesterday, Dr B was asked to explain "accountability" . He indicated it is for officials to take a simple test and agree to abide by rules. Wonder if that is what he told the schools cause many of the coaches seem to think it is a lot more than that.
Here are notes that were taken by a courtroom observer.... thank you Mr. Courtroom Observer!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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This is rather telling, isn't it?
"Mr. Fitch was asked about the UIL monitoring TASO communications; Mr. Fitch relayed
a conference call with vendors in which one vendor was late and stayed on after the call
to discuss with Mr. Fitch; during the after call, a person entered the call; at the end of the
conference call, Mr. Fitch received a report showing who had attended the call, and the
number for Mr. Tony Timmons appeared on the report as being on the call for 26
minutes, the duration of the post call with the vendor; during the follow up call, the
vendor was asking specific TASO/UIL questions; while no proof it was Mr. Timmons on
the call, it is a number registered to Mr. Timmons; this is another example of the coercion
and underhanded tactics of the UIL"
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I would like to testify on behalf of one of the chapters who supposedly went "renegade" on the old 1204. I had a direct hand in the flat rate that Tyler Basketball chapter was charging from 2004 til present. This was done within the guidelines of 1204 at the time and was a win-win for us and the schools. They got a fixed budget (including mileage), and we no longer got screwed on mythical gate revenue. Sometimes we lost on mileage, and sometimes we won. But the schools could budget their expenses with a fixed number. Everyone was happy...I seriously doubt that any of our schools complained. If they did, they never brought it to the attention of our secretary or our president.
All of this legal wrangling is supposedly over the UIL's inability to sanction chapters who didn't go by 1204. Yet during all of this time, the Tyler basketball chapter was awarded multiple regional and state tournament assignments.
The judge needs to know this!
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I would like to testify on behalf of one of the chapters who supposedly went "renegade" on the old 1204. I had a direct hand in the flat rate that Tyler Basketball chapter was charging from 2004 til present. This was done within the guidelines of 1204 at the time and was a win-win for us and the schools. They got a fixed budget (including mileage), and we no longer got screwed on mythical gate revenue. Sometimes we lost on mileage, and sometimes we won. But the schools could budget their expenses with a fixed number. Everyone was happy...I seriously doubt that any of our schools complained. If they did, they never brought it to the attention of our secretary or our president.
All of this legal wrangling is supposedly over the UIL's inability to sanction chapters who didn't go by 1204. Yet during all of this time, the Tyler basketball chapter was awarded multiple regional and state tournament assignments.
The judge needs to know this!
I am sure that the right individuals will read this and know what to do with the info.
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This is rather telling, isn't it?
"Mr. Fitch was asked about the UIL monitoring TASO communications; Mr. Fitch relayed
a conference call with vendors in which one vendor was late and stayed on after the call
to discuss with Mr. Fitch; during the after call, a person entered the call; at the end of the
conference call, Mr. Fitch received a report showing who had attended the call, and the
number for Mr. Tony Timmons appeared on the report as being on the call for 26
minutes, the duration of the post call with the vendor; during the follow up call, the
vendor was asking specific TASO/UIL questions; while no proof it was Mr. Timmons on
the call, it is a number registered to Mr. Timmons; this is another example of the coercion
and underhanded tactics of the UIL"
Sadly, this is what I have come to expect from Mr. Timmons. Hard to believe that a grown man with over 12 years of officiating experience acts so childish. Thankfully, I have seen his videos to prove he is, as the judge stated, hopeless childish.
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I would like to testify on behalf of one of the chapters who supposedly went "renegade" on the old 1204. I had a direct hand in the flat rate that Tyler Basketball chapter was charging from 2004 til present. This was done within the guidelines of 1204 at the time and was a win-win for us and the schools. They got a fixed budget (including mileage), and we no longer got screwed on mythical gate revenue. Sometimes we lost on mileage, and sometimes we won. But the schools could budget their expenses with a fixed number. Everyone was happy...I seriously doubt that any of our schools complained. If they did, they never brought it to the attention of our secretary or our president.
All of this legal wrangling is supposedly over the UIL's inability to sanction chapters who didn't go by 1204. Yet during all of this time, the Tyler basketball chapter was awarded multiple regional and state tournament assignments.
The judge needs to know this!
Is this the same chapter that has fraud charges from State of Texas filed against it and is in complete turmoil and has replaced their board of directors? Seems about right. Just keep those plumb playoff games coming and we will just change the flavor of the kool-aide.
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I haven't been a member of this chapter in 2 years...so I'm not 100% on the details of recent activity. But I know for a fact it used to be run a lot differently.
But the point is that the UIL had ample opportunity to sanction us and didn't. Why? Because the "schools" weren't complaining. The schools who complained were a handful of baseball schools. If the UIL had responded by looking at how rotten the pay was for rural baseball games that didn't charge spectators and only paid minimum game fees, they could have avoided all of this. They would not listen to our problems--so now they have all of this on their hands. Both sides are at fault. Sadly, we are way beyond an easy fix. But the bottom line is that the UIL didn't flex their muscle. If Baseball had walked out 2 years ago, the problem would have been solved quickly.
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I haven't been a member of this chapter in 2 years...so I'm not 100% on the details of recent activity. But I know for a fact it used to be run a lot differently.
But the point is that the UIL had ample opportunity to sanction us and didn't. Why? Because the "schools" weren't complaining. The schools who complained were a handful of baseball schools. If the UIL had responded by looking at how rotten the pay was for rural baseball games that didn't charge spectators and only paid minimum game fees, they could have avoided all of this. They would not listen to our problems--so now they have all of this on their hands. Both sides are at fault. Sadly, we are way beyond an easy fix. But the bottom line is that the UIL didn't flex their muscle. If Baseball had walked out 2 years ago, the problem would have been solved quickly.
All this proves my point that this is not a UIL "registration" or regulation issue, but a supply and demand issue. The UIL does not need to register officials to ensure compliance with 1204 by its member schools. All the UIL needs to do it tell its member schools to pay 1204 rates. At that point, officials of all sports across the state can make the economic decision whether to call ball games or not for the amount offered. Simple supply and demand. If officials will not call for the price offered, there will be a shortage. Registering officials does not change this equation. If there is a shortage, prices will rise. If rates paid for games rise, the supply of officials willing to accept those games will rise.
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All this proves my point that this is not a UIL "registration" or regulation issue, but a supply and demand issue. The UIL does not need to register officials to ensure compliance with 1204 by its member schools. All the UIL needs to do it tell its member schools to pay 1204 rates. At that point, officials of all sports across the state can make the economic decision whether to call ball games or not for the amount offered. Simple supply and demand. If officials will not call for the price offered, there will be a shortage. Registering officials does not change this equation. If there is a shortage, prices will rise. If rates paid for games rise, the supply of officials willing to accept those games will rise.
That my friend is the entire matter in one concise paragraph................................................
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Well, sort of...
No one will call the Freshman games as all of the wanna-be head coaches will be there expressing their discontent at officiating trying to make a name for themselves.
But every official will want a varsity game, regardless of the pay.
The system is broke. TASO and the UIL don't want to admit it, but that's where the breakdown exists.
Sell your soul for a 5A varsity game. To hell with the 2A and even 5A JV games.
Of course that doesn't even address the 90 mile one way drive for a 8-JV six-man assignment on Thursday.
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Well, sort of...
No one will call the Freshman games as all of the wanna-be head coaches will be there expressing their discontent at officiating trying to make a name for themselves.
But every official will want a varsity game, regardless of the pay.
The system is broke. TASO and the UIL don't want to admit it, but that's where the breakdown exists.
Sell your soul for a 5A varsity game. To hell with the 2A and even 5A JV games.
Of course that doesn't even address the 90 mile one way drive for a 8-JV six-man assignment on Thursday.
I am not sure of exactly what you say is broken. But I can tell you that not every official will "sell" their soul for a 5A game. I believe that most of the officials in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and other places were perfectly willing to not work their 5A games on week 10 had the deadline not have been moved.
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I was prepared for the lockout, as was my whole crew. It matters not to us what class level the game is, it's about the camaraderie with the crew and the love of the game itself.
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Is this the same chapter (Tyler) that has fraud charges from State of Texas filed against it and is in complete turmoil and has replaced their board of directors? Seems about right. Just keep those plumb playoff games coming and we will just change the flavor of the kool-aide.
This is the same chapter and I heard this morning from a Ft. Worth official that the IRS is now involved. Blindref, I agree with what you guys did and if it benefited both the schools and the officials, then that is great. Too bad that this type of thing can't be promoted more across the state.
And speaking of the Tyler Board (Basketball), I understand that the original board is still in place. It has not been replaced.
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Yes the board is the same. Not sure about the other s**t that your spewing out of your mouth. Big A
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Yes the board is the same. Not sure about the other s**t that your spewing out of your mouth. Big A
Talk about drinking the Kool Aid and living in denial. Austin, I am not sure who you spoke to in Ft. Worth, but the current board is in place minus 1. The president of the board sent a letter to the rest of the board saying that he would not be running for re-election. GameWillTravel, I now know you are so if you want the facts, call me. I promise you, the facts do not contain the Kool Aid that is being served to the rest of the chapter.
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As for accountability......Lets ask the first question: Why didn't TASO do a better job of making sure that only officials in good standing worked UIL games? Why didn't TASO do a better job of finding a system to promote the best officials instead of letting the good old boy system rule the process? When the UIL started looking for answers in 2006 as to why the system was flawwed and why officiating in Texas was slipping (especially in basketball and baseball), why did TASO immediatly blame the UIL for all of the problems?
Now I'll grant you, the coordinators for each sport who by the way selected the officials for the various contests charged to them are just as much to blame for the breakdown as TASO and the UIL has corrected the problems on their end and they have repeatedly asked TASO to do the same thing. It took the higher ups to enforce their feelings to the UIL that something needed to change . . . . . that Texas needed to be doing things better than any other state organization in the United States.
So this is where we are at. There does not need to be anymore state boards with all of the animosity and egos dealing with the UIL. The Executive Director needs to be the one handling all negotiations with the UIL. If he is not doing that either because of a breakdown in communication with the UIL, or his inability to effectively communicate with Timmons, then perhaps the President of each board and either Cliff Odenwald or Dr. Charles Breithaupt should sit down and work out a compromise where TASO is allowed to maintain football and co-exist with the UIL.
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The Executive Director needs to be the one handling all negotiations with the UIL. If he is not doing that either because of a breakdown in communication with the UIL, or his inability to effectively communicate with Timmons,
Which did take place, however, Mr. Timmons, so sure of his method and ways that his own defense team refused to put him on the witness stand for fear he would show how "hopelessly childish" he really is, proved time and time again that his word was only as good as the left over O2 that was exhaled from his mouth. In the spirit of working together, he refused to wait to issue a joint statement with TASO, joined in on conference calls that he was not invited to attend, utilized his incredible super powers of thumbing his nose at TASO, and made an Oscar worthy you tube segment displaying his ability to compromise and work with (or lecture, can't quite figure it out) officials. A real American hero!
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As for accountability......Lets ask the first question: Why didn't TASO do a better job of making sure that only officials in good standing worked UIL games? Why didn't TASO do a better job of finding a system to promote the best officials instead of letting the good old boy system rule the process? When the UIL started looking for answers in 2006 as to why the system was flawwed and why officiating in Texas was slipping (especially in basketball and baseball), why did TASO immediatly blame the UIL for all of the problems?
Now I'll grant you, the coordinators for each sport who by the way selected the officials for the various contests charged to them are just as much to blame for the breakdown as TASO and the UIL has corrected the problems on their end and they have repeatedly asked TASO to do the same thing. It took the higher ups to enforce their feelings to the UIL that something needed to change . . . . . that Texas needed to be doing things better than any other state organization in the United States.
So this is where we are at. There does not need to be anymore state boards with all of the animosity and egos dealing with the UIL. The Executive Director needs to be the one handling all negotiations with the UIL. If he is not doing that either because of a breakdown in communication with the UIL, or his inability to effectively communicate with Timmons, then perhaps the President of each board and either Cliff Odenwald or Dr. Charles Breithaupt should sit down and work out a compromise where TASO is allowed to maintain football and co-exist with the UIL.
Just my $.02
Screw Timmons because if TASO is to control the officials why does UIL need a "Director of Officials"
Also why is the UIL "good ole boy system" better that the TASO "good ole boy system"? You said it yourself in baseball and basketball the UIL selected some crappy officials to handle big games. Let the coaches do the picks like in football and then you can eliminate another couple of positions at UIL and save even more money.
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Talk about drinking the Kool Aid and living in denial. Austin, I am not sure who you spoke to in Ft. Worth, but the current board is in place minus 1. The president of the board sent a letter to the rest of the board saying that he would not be running for re-election. GameWillTravel, I now know you are so if you want the facts, call me. I promise you, the facts do not contain the Kool Aid that is being served to the rest of the chapter.
Barry, You have been removed from ALL leadership positions you temporarily held within multiple sports chapters - you have been removed from the Tyler chapter of basketball primarily because you thrive on discontent = and are well on your way to being removed from any decision making body within the football chapter - you couldn't even be re-elected your division rep. I'm going to give you some advice - take it or leave it - you need to lay low. Since this is a football board I'll steer this towards the football chapter - you are new to our chapter but we all know what baggage you carry - we're not buying it...go sell crazy somewhere else. You have lost your platform in basketball to create problems -so now you attack our football chapter. We all know the types of people that live for the next fight - those that are never satisfied regardless of how life is going - we see them in church or at the job - you are the poster-boy. I hope you will find peace in life - I'll promise you that I will pray for that very thing today - but quit screwing with my football chapter - More advice you can ignore if you choose: This is a fun avocation for most of us - I absolutely love officiating and most who put on stripes do also - be supportive of your fellow officials, regardless of what they think of TASO/UIL - mentor new guys on mechanics, not politics - do not become involved in any aspect of leadership until you can think objectively and respect all sides of an opinion. Have a great day.
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Barry, You have been removed from ALL leadership positions you temporarily held within multiple sports chapters - you have been removed from the Tyler chapter of basketball primarily because you thrive on discontent = and are well on your way to being removed from any decision making body within the football chapter - you couldn't even be re-elected your division rep. I'm going to give you some advice - take it or leave it - you need to lay low. Since this is a football board I'll steer this towards the football chapter - you are new to our chapter but we all know what baggage you carry - we're not buying it...go sell crazy somewhere else. You have lost your platform in basketball to create problems -so now you attack our football chapter. We all know the types of people that live for the next fight - those that are never satisfied regardless of how life is going - we see them in church or at the job - you are the poster-boy. I hope you will find peace in life - I'll promise you that I will pray for that very thing today - but quit screwing with my football chapter - More advice you can ignore if you choose: This is a fun avocation for most of us - I absolutely love officiating and most who put on stripes do also - be supportive of your fellow officials, regardless of what they think of TASO/UIL - mentor new guys on mechanics, not politics - do not become involved in any aspect of leadership until you can think objectively and respect all sides of an opinion. Have a great day.
:thumbup
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Cooter (since you are scared to post your real name),
I thrive on discontent??????? Are you serious?????? The reason I "lost my platform" in basketball as you so lamely posted was because I removed Tyler from the post season classic and filed two lawsuits against the chapter and refused to abide by some lame confidentiality clause that was put in the B.S. letter I received from that B.S. board. I refuse to take a load of crap shovelled at me. Furthermore, do you think I am losing sleep that I am now the alternate division rep instead of the primary in football? Very small potatoes. Lastly, I have not said ONE THING against football or the Tyler Football Chapter only that the Tyler Basketball Chapter could take a lesson or two from the football chapter. One sport has nothing to do with the other. So stop believing your own press.
The ONLY baggage I carry is simply that I am a Pro UIL person but also understand that two organizations can co-exist. TASO should keep football, softball, volleyball and baseball and the UIL should take and control basketball and the other remaining sports. If everybody has to register, then so what? You will still belong to the organization of which you pay your dues. So contrary to your opinion of me, I DO see both sides of the issue and I do NOT condemn anybody who does not decide to register with the UIL. It is a personal decision for each person. It makes no difference if I agree or disagree with that person.
There is an old saying that if it is not broken........don't fix it. Well the football situation in Tyler is just fine. The basketball situation is another story. Baseball is just fine. Anything else I can do for you today???
Barry
As you can see......I DO have the guts to post my name
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Just my $.02
Screw Timmons because if TASO is to control the officials why does UIL need a "Director of Officials"
Also why is the UIL "good ole boy system" better that the TASO "good ole boy system"? You said it yourself in baseball and basketball the UIL selected some crappy officials to handle big games. Let the coaches do the picks like in football and then you can eliminate another couple of positions at UIL and save even more money.
Rick,
Long ago, the way officials were selected for the state baseball and basketball tournaments as well as UIL assignments, were for coaches and the UIL Legislative Council members from all over the state to submit their recommendations for the officials that should work the state events. We got away from that sometime in the late 80's and the coordinators began picking the officials. It was suppose to relieve the pressure from coaches who were being pressured by officials to submit their names. It was proposed then that SOA do the picking and nominating of officials for all playoff events, but the coaches rejected this measure. I am not sure why they rejected it, but the process has been under scrutiny ever since. The situation with coaches selecting the officials in football is a fantastic system and needs to remain in place.
Barry
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As the UIL is moving to make more football playoffs into "UIL Events" you can bet the process used for geTting refs in b-ball, volleyball, etc UIL tourneys will be carried over to us. Right now, don't crews for the "lesser" sport tourneys get made up of folks from different chapters? You want to see that in football playoffs?
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As the UIL is moving to make more football playoffs into "UIL Events" you can bet the process used for geTting refs in b-ball, volleyball, etc UIL tourneys will be carried over to us. Right now, don't crews for the "lesser" sport tourneys get made up of folks from different chapters? You want to see that in football playoffs?
Hey TXMike,
That is not how it works. The UIL has gone to the chapter crew concept and have stopped bringing together officials and making everybody work together for the first time in these events. I know for a fact that it is not going to happen in football. And by the way, I happen to know that the way officials are currently being selected for football, will remain in place. The UIL does not want to change something that currently works and is supported by all coaches and AD's as well as officials.
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They are already trying to change something that works. I have no faith they will not try to change other things also.
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They are already trying to change something that works. I have no faith they will not try to change other things also.
EXACTLY!!!!
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The UIL does not want to change something that currently works and is supported by all coaches and AD's as well as officials.
Wow. Incredible. Then what the heck are they doing?
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Wow. Incredible. Then what the heck are they doing?
Ummmm, trying to make more money, to the tune of 3/4 of a cool mil?
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Wow. Incredible. Then what the heck are they doing?
Here is a better way to do this: Tell us EXACTLY (facts only........no opinions) what is it that the UIL is doing that will change football and how it is operated???