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National Federation Discussion / Re: What would you do ???
« Last post by Steely Dan on Today at 01:41:58 PM »nevermind, I misread basically everything in this thread....... 
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Rule Change NCAA needs
« Last post by Morningrise on Today at 12:07:13 PM »The "maul" is an inherent part of rugby gameplay and strategy. If you have speedy players then you try to get the ball to the outside and set them running, but if you have strong beefy players then you tuck the ball and let them plow you forward in a maul while the opponent tries to get you on the ground. So I'm not convinced by arguments that the tush push is "not football" or "not entertaining": It's as classic as (and no more boring than) your standard "three yards and a cloud of dust." However, as a counter-argument, in rugby the opponent can try to maul you backward as well, and if they're stronger than you then getting stuck in a maul can be disastrous. In American football there's no such element of risk because getting your forward progress stopped ends the play. Maybe there should be a forward progress exception. Imagine if the Philadelphia Eagles tried their tush push against the wrong defense and got shoved backward eleven yards - now THAT would be an entertaining play.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Not sure why I keep concerning myself, but…
« Last post by TxJim on Today at 09:46:49 AM »So, after seeing the preliminary RQ post, will be waiting for the formation requirements to be written into Rule 6-1-2-a, b and c.
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Texas Topics / Re: Latest TASO Off-Season 5-question quiz
« Last post by ElvisLives on Yesterday at 10:58:47 AM »If you want to make your answers unequivocally correct, in 1 and 4, add the time, qtr, and score to highlight Team A does not have the option to start on the snap per 3-4-3-b.
In 5, Team B may have that option inside 2 minutes in the half.
That’s why every question ‘setup’ should include time and score. Every question I author does. I can’t seem to get that across to other folks that offer questions.
Every question should follow the format that we learned from John Adams decades ago:
Down/distance, yard line (succeeding spot), [lateral position optional,] time remaining (period), clock status, play clock time remaining(duration), Team A score, Team B score.
(Note: I added the play clock time and status, because the 40-second play clock came about after Mr. Adams retired from NCAA involvement.)
2/5, A-40, left hash, 5:30 (2), ready, 32(40), A=14, B=10.
This tells us everything we need to know. Note that Team A ALWAYS puts the ball in play, so there is no need to list “A” at the start of the setup statement.
Then you describe the action as thoroughly as possible, using RULE language:
After possessing the snap, A10 attempts to hand the ball to A23 at the A-38. A23 muffs the ball, which falls and deflects off of A23’s knee and bounds toward the left sideline. Players of both teams attempt to recover the ball, with no player gaining possession before the ball rolls out of bounds at the A-42 at 5:25 (2).
Ruling:
The ruling should follow a similar format (but the team that will next put the ball in play is included), with thorough rationale, using rule language, as needed:
A, 3/7, A-38, 5:25 (2), ready, 40 (running).
The status of the ball after the muffed handing attempt is a fumble. When the ball rolls out of bounds in advance of the spot of the fumble, the ball belongs to Team A at the spot of the fumble, for the next down, and, by rule, the game clock will start on the referee’s signal. The play clock is set to 40-seconds and started when the ball becomes dead at the end of second down.
[Note: A learning point with this example is that, even though the spot of the fumble (end of A10’s run) has no importance for penalty enforcement, it is necessary to mark the spot of the fumble with a spot marker (bean bag), in the event the ball should go out of bounds in advance of the spot of the fumble. Also, if this were 4th down, and a teammate other than the fumbler catches/recovers the ball, the 4th down fumble rule applies, and we’d need to know the spot of the fumble.]
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Not sure why I keep concerning myself, but…
« Last post by peterparsons on Yesterday at 10:37:21 AM »I agree. I think it's a "we've no time left and we think we've got more chance of kicking a field goal with no rush and no snap to go wrong than completing a Hail Mary for a TD" play, which is why they are so rare.
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Texas Topics / Re: Latest TASO Off-Season 5-question quiz
« Last post by TxJim on Yesterday at 09:41:31 AM »If you want to make your answers unequivocally correct, in 1 and 4, add the time, qtr, and score to highlight Team A does not have the option to start on the snap per 3-4-3-b.
In 5, Team B may have that option inside 2 minutes in the half.
Edit: Silly me.. I just realized you are not the original author of these questions and just playing along at home.
In 5, Team B may have that option inside 2 minutes in the half.
Edit: Silly me.. I just realized you are not the original author of these questions and just playing along at home.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Not sure why I keep concerning myself, but…
« Last post by ElvisLives on Yesterday at 09:29:58 AM »In NFL rules, a missed FG goes back to the spot of the kick, including on regular plays from scrimmage (which is why R drops a bean bag level with the holder on FG attempts). It'll be interesting to see what the NCAA decide to do with the ball after a missed FC kick. They may use the spot of the kick. I'm not sure anything else makes sense.
This is one of the biggest reasons very, very few of us will ever see a fair catch kick. If the NCAA treats the kick like a scrimmage kick, then, yes, when a kick doesn’t score, and is untouched by B, the ball belongs to B at the previous spot. That is a huge risk for Team A, and, IMHO, will make a Fair Catch Kick something to be used only in desperation, or if time in the second period will expire during the down. As I see it, the primary advantage of a Fair Catch Kick the fact that there is no chance it will be blocked. Well, I shouldn’t say ‘no’ chance. I suppose a really bad, low, kick could get blocked. But that blocking would, at best, be some 10-yards beyond Team A’s restraining line. I would think that would qualify as touching by Team B. So, considering a Fair Catch Kick would not likely be made nearer than the B-40, Team B should just let the kick happen, and not even attempt to touch the ball.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Not sure why I keep concerning myself, but…
« Last post by peterparsons on Yesterday at 08:40:15 AM »In NFL rules, a missed FG goes back to the spot of the kick, including on regular plays from scrimmage (which is why R drops a bean bag level with the holder on FG attempts). It'll be interesting to see what the NCAA decide to do with the ball after a missed FC kick. They may use the spot of the kick. I'm not sure anything else makes sense.
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NCAA Discussion / Re: Not sure why I keep concerning myself, but…
« Last post by Ralph Damren on Yesterday at 06:47:36 AM ».....On a second thought, treating FC/FK as a scrimmage kick, wouldn't a missed one bring the ball back to the previous spot - like a missed FG from a scrimmage down 
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Texas Topics / Latest TASO Off-Season 5-question quiz
« Last post by ElvisLives on Yesterday at 12:29:06 AM »Latest TASO off-season quiz. Tell me where I screwed up. I am uploading these at 12:29 am CDST.
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1. A 1/10 @ B-32. QB A12’s pass is intercepted by B32 and returned for 12 yds where he is tackled inbounds. B10 was offside on the play.
Ruling: A, 1/5, B-27, ready (25).
The 5-yard penalty for B10’s Offside foul is penalized at the previous spot. Since Team B will not next snap the ball, and there is no other reason for the game clock to start on the snap, the game clock will start on the referee’s signal. Due to the penalty completion the play clock is set to 25-seconds and will start on the referee’s signal.
2. A F/K @ A-20. A37 kicks the ball to the B-13. During the kick, B8 makes a brief wave below his shoulder at the B-10. The ball bounces, followed by B8 possessing the ball at the B-8.
Ruling: B, 1/10, B-8, snap (25).
B8’s waving arm motion is an invalid fair catch signal, which causes the ball to become dead when possessed by any player. Since the legally kicked ball was recovered by a Team B player after a signal was made by a teammate, Team B will put the ball in play at the yard line where it was recovered (B-8), at the lateral spot of the recovery, if between the hash marks, or at the nearest hash mark if recovered in a side zone. Because of the legal kick down, the play clock is set to 25-seconds, and will start on the referee’s signal, and the game clock will start on the snap.
3. A 1/10 @ A-45. From a shotgun formation, A10 takes the snap and rolls to his left. As he approaches the A-45, both of A10’s feet are beyond the A-45, but no other part of his body or the ball has crossed the LOS. A10 then retreats to A-44.5 and throws a forward pass to A16 near the sideline at the B-23. The pass falls incomplete.
Ruling: A, 2/10, A-45, snap (40, automatic).
A10’s pass is legal, because A10’s entire body, and the ball, remained behind the neutral zone before the pass was thrown. Because of the incomplete forward pass, the game clock will start on the snap. The play clock is 40-seconds and is started when the ball becomes dead with the incomplete pass.
(Personal commentary: This is a BS question. If a ball carrier has BOTH feet across the neutral zone, it would be almost impossible for his entire body and the ball, in his possession, to NOT, also, be beyond the neutral zone.)
4. A 1/10 @ A-42. A8 takes the snap and hands off to A5 who runs to the A-46 where he is tackled. During the run, B64 is flagged for holding.
Ruling: A, 1/10, B-44, ready (25).
The 10-yard penalty for B64’s Defensive Holding foul is penalized per 3&1 from the Basic Spot, which is the end of the related run (A-46), taking the ball to the B-44, with a first down by penalty. Because of the penalty completion, the play clock is set to 25-sconds, and (on the assumption that the ball became dead inbounds) both clocks will start on the referee’s signal.
5. A 2/20 @ A-15. A2 takes the snap at the A-11 and hands off to A21 who runs to the A-30 where he is tackled. During the run, A6 blocks B4 while he is out of bounds at the A-40.
Ruling: A, 2/20, A-15, ready (25), OR, A, 3/5, A-30, ready (25).
The 15-yard penalty for A6’s Illegal Block for blocking an opponent, when both he and the opponent are out of bounds, is penalized per 3&1 at the Basic Spot, which is the end of the related run (A-30), taking the ball to the A-15, where the down will be repeated. Because of the penalty completion, the play clock is set to 25-sconds, and (on the assumption that the ball became dead inbounds) both clocks will start on the referee’s signal; OR
Alternatively, Team B may elect to decline the penalty for A6’s Illegal Block, and Team A will snap the ball at the dead-ball spot, and the down number will advance to 3rd down. Because of the penalty completion, the play clock is set to 25-sconds, and (on the assumption that the ball became dead inbounds) both clocks will start on the referee’s signal.
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1. A 1/10 @ B-32. QB A12’s pass is intercepted by B32 and returned for 12 yds where he is tackled inbounds. B10 was offside on the play.
Ruling: A, 1/5, B-27, ready (25).
The 5-yard penalty for B10’s Offside foul is penalized at the previous spot. Since Team B will not next snap the ball, and there is no other reason for the game clock to start on the snap, the game clock will start on the referee’s signal. Due to the penalty completion the play clock is set to 25-seconds and will start on the referee’s signal.
2. A F/K @ A-20. A37 kicks the ball to the B-13. During the kick, B8 makes a brief wave below his shoulder at the B-10. The ball bounces, followed by B8 possessing the ball at the B-8.
Ruling: B, 1/10, B-8, snap (25).
B8’s waving arm motion is an invalid fair catch signal, which causes the ball to become dead when possessed by any player. Since the legally kicked ball was recovered by a Team B player after a signal was made by a teammate, Team B will put the ball in play at the yard line where it was recovered (B-8), at the lateral spot of the recovery, if between the hash marks, or at the nearest hash mark if recovered in a side zone. Because of the legal kick down, the play clock is set to 25-seconds, and will start on the referee’s signal, and the game clock will start on the snap.
3. A 1/10 @ A-45. From a shotgun formation, A10 takes the snap and rolls to his left. As he approaches the A-45, both of A10’s feet are beyond the A-45, but no other part of his body or the ball has crossed the LOS. A10 then retreats to A-44.5 and throws a forward pass to A16 near the sideline at the B-23. The pass falls incomplete.
Ruling: A, 2/10, A-45, snap (40, automatic).
A10’s pass is legal, because A10’s entire body, and the ball, remained behind the neutral zone before the pass was thrown. Because of the incomplete forward pass, the game clock will start on the snap. The play clock is 40-seconds and is started when the ball becomes dead with the incomplete pass.
(Personal commentary: This is a BS question. If a ball carrier has BOTH feet across the neutral zone, it would be almost impossible for his entire body and the ball, in his possession, to NOT, also, be beyond the neutral zone.)
4. A 1/10 @ A-42. A8 takes the snap and hands off to A5 who runs to the A-46 where he is tackled. During the run, B64 is flagged for holding.
Ruling: A, 1/10, B-44, ready (25).
The 10-yard penalty for B64’s Defensive Holding foul is penalized per 3&1 from the Basic Spot, which is the end of the related run (A-46), taking the ball to the B-44, with a first down by penalty. Because of the penalty completion, the play clock is set to 25-sconds, and (on the assumption that the ball became dead inbounds) both clocks will start on the referee’s signal.
5. A 2/20 @ A-15. A2 takes the snap at the A-11 and hands off to A21 who runs to the A-30 where he is tackled. During the run, A6 blocks B4 while he is out of bounds at the A-40.
Ruling: A, 2/20, A-15, ready (25), OR, A, 3/5, A-30, ready (25).
The 15-yard penalty for A6’s Illegal Block for blocking an opponent, when both he and the opponent are out of bounds, is penalized per 3&1 at the Basic Spot, which is the end of the related run (A-30), taking the ball to the A-15, where the down will be repeated. Because of the penalty completion, the play clock is set to 25-sconds, and (on the assumption that the ball became dead inbounds) both clocks will start on the referee’s signal; OR
Alternatively, Team B may elect to decline the penalty for A6’s Illegal Block, and Team A will snap the ball at the dead-ball spot, and the down number will advance to 3rd down. Because of the penalty completion, the play clock is set to 25-sconds, and (on the assumption that the ball became dead inbounds) both clocks will start on the referee’s signal.