Rule Change Suggestions

[CK51]

I'm curious what rule changes you guys would change or implement for the 2019 season?

[brettjr2005]

These haven't all been fully thought through and I'm sure I could be talked out of a few of them, but my list for starters:

Remove 3 minute warmup (not going to happen) or make the normal length for halftimes 12 minutes + 3 minute warmup.  At least in my region, the teams still haven't adapted fully to this and aren't making great use of the extra 3 minutes.  If anything it seems the players are more likely to be injured due to the lengthy break and the 3 minutes of just staring at the clock.  Also, 18 minutes (and up to 23) just feels really long compared to pretty much any other sport as well as compared to NCAA (15 mins) and NFL (12 mins).

Allow the QB to throw the ball away outside of the pocket.  I don't necessarily disagree with this rule, but I just feel like it makes sense to align with the NCAA and NFL rules here.


Allow uncatchable determinations for PI.  I know we already do this to an extent, but it's an unnecessary argument when the ball is 15 yards overthrown but the coach gets mad about us 'making up rules' if we don't call PI there.

Have the NZ disintegrate when the ball goes beyond it.  It just seems like common sense to me.  If the ball goes 10 yards downfield and then comes back behind the LOS/NZ I don't see why the offense should be able to kick, pass, or have loose ball play penalty enforcement.

Restart the clock on out of bounds plays once the ball is marked ready for play, except in the last 2 minutes of the half.

Outlaw all low blocks.  No FBZ exception.  Hard sell, I know, but strictly for safety purposes.

That's all for now.  I'm sure I'll come up with a few more and I welcome all criticism of my suggestions. 

[sj]

Make live ball fouls out of all the ones that are currently dead ball fouls on free kicks.

[bossman72]

A few that I've suggested in the past (paraphrased).  Would like to hear your thoughts yay or nay.

1) An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground.  Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.

2) Participating with 12 players at the snap constitutes Illegal Substitution instead of Illegal Participation.  The only difference between 5 and 15 is when we finish our count.

3) Editorial change to say the clock starts on the snap when "B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball."  This eliminates confusion on when the clock restarts following a punt and the down is replayed.

4) KOB foul is only a foul if the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory.

5) Basic spot is the previous spot when the run ends behind the LOS.  This doesn't fix the holding foul behind the LOS being enforced from the spot of the foul like everyone wants.  That would still be the enforcement spot (spot of foul).  But this would fix when we have a Defensive Hold and the QB gets sacked.  This would be enforced from the previous spot instead of the end of the run.  In addition, this can clean up the definition of loose ball play.  So all runs, fumbles, and backward passes behind the LOS are now RUNS.  Basically loose ball plays would only be legal passes and kicks.  This makes it so much more simple.  New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays.  This cleans everything up.

[brettjr2005]

A few that I've suggested in the past (paraphrased).  Would like to hear your thoughts yay or nay.

1) An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground.  Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.

2) Participating with 12 players at the snap constitutes Illegal Substitution instead of Illegal Participation.  The only difference between 5 and 15 is when we finish our count.

3) Editorial change to say the clock starts on the snap when "B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball."  This eliminates confusion on when the clock restarts following a punt and the down is replayed.

4) KOB foul is only a foul if the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory.

5) Basic spot is the previous spot when the run ends behind the LOS.  This doesn't fix the holding foul behind the LOS being enforced from the spot of the foul like everyone wants.  That would still be the enforcement spot (spot of foul).  But this would fix when we have a Defensive Hold and the QB gets sacked.  This would be enforced from the previous spot instead of the end of the run.  In addition, this can clean up the definition of loose ball play.  So all runs, fumbles, and backward passes behind the LOS are now RUNS.  Basically loose ball plays would only be legal passes and kicks.  This makes it so much more simple.  New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays.  This cleans everything up.

1.  I get where you're coming from, but I think that's going a bit far given catch rules and could also create some safety issues with players potentially landing 3 yards out of bounds/in the team box at full speed.

2.  I'm 50/50 on this.  I like it because it keeps the game moving, doesn't put so much pressure on the officials for these calls with regard to if they're going to get a player off or not and when the snap will occur, and still gives the offense the option of the result or 5 yards + replay the down.  I just worry about the rare circumstances where the defense would benefit by putting 12 or more on the field on purpose, like 10 seconds left at the 50 so B puts an extra player on for the first play knowing A will get two shots at a hail mary anyways and 5 yards is a minor difference.

3.  Seems good.

4.  I assume you mean like a receiver touching the ball while standing out of bounds?  I agree that is a weird one, but I feel like the exception would be fairly difficult to word in a way that doesn't have unintended effects on other rulings. 

5.  Why not just say that all fouls in or behind the NZ have special enforcement from the LoS?

[bbeagle]

I like all the rule suggestions that brettjr described.

We need to make more rules consistent with the NFL or NCAA that have nothing to do with safety.

On kicks going into the end zone, ball must touch the ground or a player grounded in the end zone to be called a touchback. I think that the ball should be allowed to be batted backwards by K if the ball has entered the end zone in the air, and the player is diving in to stop the touchback. This is a very exciting play in NCAA and NFL, which is lost in NFHS.

Kicks caught by K in the air may be caught by K if no players of R are in the vicinity. Kick-catching-interference for catching a kick in the air when no R player is around is ridiculous. If a player knows the rule, he can simply wait for the bounce and pick it up off the bounce. A player shouldn't be penalized 15 yards for something lame like that which is not dangerous.

Allow the defense to return a 2-point conversion miss for 2-points. NFL added this recently. Make it consistent.

Remove the kneel-down. I hate this play more than anything in football. I know this will never be considered, but I'm putting it out here. Around our area, when the offense is taking a knee, they tell us, and the offense can't do anything else (or the play is whistled dead immediately and they're given a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty). The defense is not allowed to charge in. Why bother having this play then? We should use the CFL rule - if the offense doesn't gain a yard on a play inside 2 minutes, the clock stops. Allows for exciting finishes. You might still have a chance even with :30 on the clock if your defense can force the opponent to lose yards each play.

[prab]

1.  Agree with bossman on - An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground.  Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.

2.  Would like to see "At the snap, at least seven A players shall be on their line of scrimmage." changed to "At the snap, no more than 4 A players shall be off their line of scrimmage (or alternatively no more than 4 in their backfield)."  That would eliminate the illegal formation penalty for A when A has less than 11 players on the field at the snap and less than 7 of them on their LOS.

[PABJNR]

Yes please implement the status on the OOB play.

I would also like to see the 5 TD facemask removed. I think too many times the 5 gets called when it should be the 15.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UmpHawk]

Holding on A is 10 yd penalty from previous spot instead of spot of the foul.

[bama_stripes]

 

New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays.

Why?  The simple explanation is “There are no loose-ball plays past the LOS.”

[bossman72]

1.  I get where you're coming from, but I think that's going a bit far given catch rules and could also create some safety issues with players potentially landing 3 yards out of bounds/in the team box at full speed.
I'm not sure how it would create issues?  This does not change the definition of catch, as the receiver still is required to touch the ground inbounds.

2.  I'm 50/50 on this.  I like it because it keeps the game moving, doesn't put so much pressure on the officials for these calls with regard to if they're going to get a player off or not and when the snap will occur, and still gives the offense the option of the result or 5 yards + replay the down.  I just worry about the rare circumstances where the defense would benefit by putting 12 or more on the field on purpose, like 10 seconds left at the 50 so B puts an extra player on for the first play knowing A will get two shots at a hail mary anyways and 5 yards is a minor difference.
If you feel it's blatant cheating, you can use unfair acts.  But for the 99.99% of occurrences of IP, it's because the officials didn't count quick enough.

3.  Seems good.

4.  I assume you mean like a receiver touching the ball while standing out of bounds?  I agree that is a weird one, but I feel like the exception would be fairly difficult to word in a way that doesn't have unintended effects on other rulings. 
This rule change just makes the rule wording consistent with case book 6.1.8C.  So there would be no unintended consequences.  Here is the rule snippet:

Art 9 … A free kick shall not be kicked out of bounds between the goal lines untouched inbounds by R. It is
only a foul if the ball becomes out of bounds while on or above out of bounds territory. If it is kicked out of
bounds and R does not accept a penalty for kick-catch interference on the same kick as in 6-5-4, R has the
following choices: …

5.  Why not just say that all fouls in or behind the NZ have special enforcement from the LoS?
Because then you have exceptions for fouls in the end zone becoming a safety and other fouls like illegal touching, batting, kicking, etc that you would want to be spot fouls.  This change requires no exceptions to the all-but-one

[bossman72]

Why?  The simple explanation is “There are no loose-ball plays past the LOS.”

The rule change would make the distinction obsolete.  Then it's simpler - all fumbles and backward passes are runs.

[Ralph Damren]

These haven't all been fully thought through and I'm sure I could be talked out of a few of them, but my list for starters:

Remove 3 minute warmup (not going to happen) or make the normal length for halftimes 12 minutes + 3 minute warmup.  At least in my region, the teams still haven't adapted fully to this and aren't making great use of the extra 3 minutes.  If anything it seems the players are more likely to be injured due to the lengthy break and the 3 minutes of just staring at the clock.  Also, 18 minutes (and up to 23) just feels really long compared to pretty much any other sport as well as compared to NCAA (15 mins) and NFL (12 mins).

Allow the QB to throw the ball away outside of the pocket.  I don't necessarily disagree with this rule, but I just feel like it makes sense to align with the NCAA and NFL rules here.


Allow uncatchable determinations for PI.  I know we already do this to an extent, but it's an unnecessary argument when the ball is 15 yards overthrown but the coach gets mad about us 'making up rules' if we don't call PI there.

Have the NZ disintegrate when the ball goes beyond it.  It just seems like common sense to me.  If the ball goes 10 yards downfield and then comes back behind the LOS/NZ I don't see why the offense should be able to kick, pass, or have loose ball play penalty enforcement.

Restart the clock on out of bounds plays once the ball is marked ready for play, except in the last 2 minutes of the half.

Outlaw all low blocks.  No FBZ exception.  Hard sell, I know, but strictly for safety purposes.

That's all for now.  I'm sure I'll come up with a few more and I welcome all criticism of my suggestions.

The 3 minute warm up will always be there. In Maine, if both teams are out on the field at halftime we treat that as implied consent of the coaches to shortening the halftime. They are aware of this and can request the full 15 if they wish. We then instruct the clock operator to put up 3:00 and run down.

The tackle box rule aids the offense and the general feeling is a change isn't needed to upset the balance.

Some QBs never throw a catchable pass . Easy to judge with 7 or 8, not so easy with 4 or 5.

RFP on OOB -all for it - the addition of the 2 minute rule added on accepted penalities should help to add support.

DB fouls on FK = live ball fouls + tack on. All for it on K fouls.

Removing FBZ probably will never occur.

DISCLAIMER: These are only the muttering of an grumpy, ole' zebra and not intended to be of NFHS,NCAA,AFL-CIO,ASPCA and the like..

[CK51]

Have you guys seen the Schiano rule?

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/schiano-rule

it replaces kick offs with 4th and 15 from the scoring team's 40. They have a choice to go for the first (replaces the onsides kick) or punt from there (which are generally seen as safer than kickoffs)

not sure its appropriate for HS but its an interesting idea

[Ralph Damren]

A few that I've suggested in the past (paraphrased).  Would like to hear your thoughts yay or nay.

1) An airborne player is either in bounds or OOB depending on what he was when he left the ground.  Cleans up a lot of rules and can lead to getting rid of that dumb "participating while OOB" IP rule.

2) Participating with 12 players at the snap constitutes Illegal Substitution instead of Illegal Participation.  The only difference between 5 and 15 is when we finish our count.

3) Editorial change to say the clock starts on the snap when "B or R is awarded a new series and will next snap the ball."  This eliminates confusion on when the clock restarts following a punt and the down is replayed.

4) KOB foul is only a foul if the kick becomes OOB while on or above OOB territory.

5) Basic spot is the previous spot when the run ends behind the LOS.  This doesn't fix the holding foul behind the LOS being enforced from the spot of the foul like everyone wants.  That would still be the enforcement spot (spot of foul).  But this would fix when we have a Defensive Hold and the QB gets sacked.  This would be enforced from the previous spot instead of the end of the run.  In addition, this can clean up the definition of loose ball play.  So all runs, fumbles, and backward passes behind the LOS are now RUNS.  Basically loose ball plays would only be legal passes and kicks.  This makes it so much more simple.  New guys get confused when you tell them that fumbles behind the LOS are loose ball plays and beyond the LOS are run plays.  This cleans everything up.

(1) Strong support - makes sense.
(2) Neutral - while 15/5 is determined by how quick we are on the draw, we should treat #12 trying to get off the field differently than #12 being involved in the play.
(3) would help to clarify.
(4) Strong support- this was original intent with rule change back in 2000- I know, I authored it.
(5) Strong support - this would treat the QB sacked by FM for a big loss and same for QB that fumbles during FM sack. It would not impact the All-But-One principle that many don't want to touch.

Good job, Bossman, I hope to have the chance to support if on the ballot.

[Ralph Damren]

Have you guys seen the Schiano rule?

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/schiano-rule

it replaces kick offs with 4th and 15 from the scoring team's 40. They have a choice to go for the first (replaces the onsides kick) or punt from there (which are generally seen as safer than kickoffs)

not sure its appropriate for HS but its an interesting idea

There hasn't been any discussion of this change, but one of this magnitude should be ran as an experimental rule in a few states first. I'll be sure to let you guys know if I hear anything.

[FLAHL]

I've brought this one up before with no luck, but I'm still hopeful.

Make it a foul to have more than 4 in the backfield rather than less than 7 on the line.  When A operates with 6 on the line and 4 in the backfield, they're already at a disadvantage - why punish them twice?  In prior years, I believe the rationale for not accepting this is "It doesn't help anyone except the officials who would rather count to 4 than to 7."  Given the other changes that make our jobs more difficult, what's wrong with one that helps us out?   

[FLAHL]

Remove the kneel-down. I hate this play more than anything in football.

Every year some kid does something stupid while the other team is attempting to take a knee.  I don't know how to eliminate it, but I'm not a fan of the play either.

[scrounge]

Some good suggestions. I like the kick OOB and basic spot for runs behind the LOS suggestions. Also would be good with allowing the QB to throw it away if outside the tackle box. Yes, it introduces some complexity, but worth it from a player safety point of view.

Also would allow the following:

1) Allow a spike from the shotgun. Removes a frankly pointless distinction. We already have the requirement for the spike to be immediate and without delay - same principle would apply regardless of shotgun vs hand-to-hand.

2) *IF* the 40 second play clock is approved (and I'm slightly in favor of not approving it), then and only then, don't stop the clock on first downs. It's 40 seconds regardless, and in the case of unusual delay, stop the clock momentarily and reset the play clock.

3) If the automatic first down for DPI can't be brought back, change enforcement for DPI to be the full 15 yards, with no provision for half the distance, or the 2 yard line, whichever comes first. It removes the inequity of allowing the defense to commit DPI with relative impunity in certain situations. Twice in the last 2 years I've had B commit DPI on 4th and goal in the EZ, not lose all that many yards on the penalty, and stop A on the next play.

[Ralph Damren]

Every year some kid does something stupid while the other team is attempting to take a knee.  I don't know how to eliminate it, but I'm not a fan of the play either.

Reference the Ohio Gold Book . We adopted that a few years ago and haven't had any problems since.

[CK51]

Reference the Ohio Gold Book . We adopted that a few years ago and haven't had any problems since.

After a quick google search I came up with this:

"Victory Formation Mechanics (VFM)
A. Definition: Winning team HC informs officials we are “going to take a knee”. Opponent is out
of team TO’s or tells Wing that we will not use them. Winning Team is ahead by 9 or more
points. If the score differential is 8 or less points R will tell the teams to “defend themselves”.
B. CREW: Officials pinch in close. R/U: Inform A & B that A will take a knee—nothing rough. QB
has protection once his team indicates he will take a knee. R: Emphatically inform QB he
MUST take a knee ASAP – no fakes. If he fakes & does not take a knee, it is an Unfair Act.
C. CREW: Ask winning team HC if his team will take a knee; score/time dictates this. If yes, Wing
assertively informs losing team HC. Inform all players loudly. Communication is important!!"

Is this what you are referring to?

[Ralph Damren]

Some good suggestions. I like the kick OOB and basic spot for runs behind the LOS suggestions. Also would be good with allowing the QB to throw it away if outside the tackle box. Yes, it introduces some complexity, but worth it from a player safety point of view.

Also would allow the following:

1) Allow a spike from the shotgun. Removes a frankly pointless distinction. We already have the requirement for the spike to be immediate and without delay - same principle would apply regardless of shotgun vs hand-to-hand.

2) *IF* the 40 second play clock is approved (and I'm slightly in favor of not approving it), then and only then, don't stop the clock on first downs. It's 40 seconds regardless, and in the case of unusual delay, stop the clock momentarily and reset the play clock.

3) If the automatic first down for DPI can't be brought back, change enforcement for DPI to be the full 15 yards, with no provision for half the distance, or the 2 yard line, whichever comes first. It removes the inequity of allowing the defense to commit DPI with relative impunity in certain situations. Twice in the last 2 years I've had B commit DPI on 4th and goal in the EZ, not lose all that many yards on the penalty, and stop A on the next play.

(1) When the legal spike was put in back in 1995, a couple of concerns were : (a) QB would have a better view of open receivers from the shotgun, (b) a 'pop-up' snap could lead QB to spike to prevent sack. Those concerns still exist and support of rule change dampened a couple of years age when it was learned the NFL requires the QB to be under the snapper for the spike.

(2) I wish not to think of sad things on the day of the Red Sox celebration parade

(3) I would support bringing the AFD on DPI and it has been on the docket a couple of times since but failed. The feeling of some is if we reinstate AFD to DPI we should do same with LOD on OPI. A compromise could be adding AFD to INTENTIONAL forward pass interference - a call that is made as often as Haley's Comet passes but could protect the fairness of the game if the situation warranted.

.....Time to go home and watch the celebration parade    

[Ralph Damren]

After a quick google search I came up with this:

"Victory Formation Mechanics (VFM)
A. Definition: Winning team HC informs officials we are “going to take a knee”. Opponent is out
of team TO’s or tells Wing that we will not use them. Winning Team is ahead by 9 or more
points. If the score differential is 8 or less points R will tell the teams to “defend themselves”.
B. CREW: Officials pinch in close. R/U: Inform A & B that A will take a knee—nothing rough. QB
has protection once his team indicates he will take a knee. R: Emphatically inform QB he
MUST take a knee ASAP – no fakes. If he fakes & does not take a knee, it is an Unfair Act.
C. CREW: Ask winning team HC if his team will take a knee; score/time dictates this. If yes, Wing
assertively informs losing team HC. Inform all players loudly. Communication is important!!"

Is this what you are referring to?

Yes, and coaches have all agreed. Often the losing coach will pull out his considered "troublemakers". If the game is within one score (TD+2), we remind the offense : "we are still playing football, be ready."

[ilyazhito]

I would support AFD on DPI, UNS, and personal fouls by the defense (RPS, UNR (IPC in NFHS), HCT, TGT, LTO (late hit out of bounds), etc.). This would remove the differences between NCAA and NFHS in that regard. I would also abolish illegal participation, because this penalty is infrequent, and is often caused by officiating errors (As an aside, how does NCAA adjudicate a player participating with his helmet off?).

I would be on board with the 12/3 (EBO does this anyway in their games) halftime rather than the 15/3 halftime, throw away outside the pocket being legal, no NZ after the ball leaves, etc. No visible play clock would not be an issue for 40 seconds if the BJ (or other official timing the play clock communicates that play clock starts, 25 seconds, 10 seconds, and the end of the play clock. This is how I and my partners on semi-pro games have communicated the play clock (semi-pro games use either college or NFL rules, and those rules include a 40-second play clock).

[riffraft]

I would support AFD on DPI, UNS, and personal fouls by the defense (RPS, UNR (IPC in NFHS), HCT, TGT, LTO (late hit out of bounds), etc.). This would remove the differences between NCAA and NFHS in that regard. I would also abolish illegal participation, because this penalty is infrequent, and is often caused by officiating errors (As an aside, how does NCAA adjudicate a player participating with his helmet off?).

I would be on board with the 12/3 (EBO does this anyway in their games) halftime rather than the 15/3 halftime, throw away outside the pocket being legal, no NZ after the ball leaves, etc. No visible play clock would not be an issue for 40 seconds if the BJ (or other official timing the play clock communicates that play clock starts, 25 seconds, 10 seconds, and the end of the play clock. This is how I and my partners on semi-pro games have communicated the play clock (semi-pro games use either college or NFL rules, and those rules include a 40-second play clock).

Personally, I think the NCAA and the NFL already have too many penalties against the D that are AFD. Not in favor of expanding them to NFHS.