Options to Captain/Coach

[NorCalMike]

I know we have talked about giving options to the Captains/Coaches for penalty enforcement and we have talked about free kicks after fair catches. Tonight during our off season study questions, we were given the following scenario:

K 4 and 20 @ K 30.  With the score tied 20-20 only 10 seconds remaining in the game, K1 punts and it is fair caught at the R 30.  Now there is only four seconds left and QB A1 throws a long pass to A88 that is caught at the B 10, where he is tackled.  On the play, QBA1 is roughed. Now the ball is at the B 5, first and Goal with no time on the clock.  Team A’s Coach says he wants to try a free kick for a field goal. 

According to rule 6-5-4 we know that Team A can elect to free kick for the field goal. One question would be that if you have this play what options to you give the team A captain/coach. Do you mention the fact that they have the same options about free kicking as the previous play?

[Ralph Damren]

I'm one for explaining the results of the choice along with the choice...."If you decline the penalty, the period will end...." In this scenario I would :
            (1) Bring the captain to within earshot of his coach;
            (2) explain; "By accepting this penalty, you'll get an untimed down where you can run
                 a play or free kick for a field goal.";
            (3) If the choice is to free kick, I would be sure to use the chains to create a neutral zone
                 for the free kick and inform the opposing coach of the choice and the requirements
                 of his team.
 

[Atlanta Blue]

First, there is really no reason to give him any option.  It's a "tack on" penalty.  There is nothing for him to accept or decline.  I don't think there is any reason to say anything.

If you feel you must say something, I would leave it to:  "Coach, when you accept the penalty, we will be replaying the down, except that you will be on the B5 yard line with an untimed down."  It's his job to know he still has the free kick option.  If he asks if he still has the option, but all means, answer his question.

Do you ask the defense who they want to kick off every time they were just scored upon?  Of course not.  Not every obscure rule has to be offered.

[Atlanta Blue]

I'm one for explaining the results of the choice along with the choice...."If you decline the penalty, the period will end...." In this scenario I would :
            (1) Bring the captain to within earshot of his coach;
            (2) explain; "By accepting this penalty, you'll get an untimed down where you can run
                 a play or free kick for a field goal.";
            (3) If the choice is to free kick, I would be sure to use the chains to create a neutral zone
                 for the free kick and inform the opposing coach of the choice and the requirements
                 of his team.

Do you give the option of a free kick after every fair catch?  Of course not.  So why offer it here?  We don't even have officials ask us where we want the ball after a fair catch, or a touchback, or for a try.  If we want it somewhere other than where it was caught (or in the middle), it's up to us to make that request.

I don't think you say a word about the free kick unless asked.

[AlUpstateNY]

Apologies, but this is a sore spot for me.  First, it's relevant to remember that we are NOT dealing with Collegiate or Professional players, or games.  Our clients are High School Interscholastic athletes.  Our job is to assist those responsible for making decisions that they correctly understand their options.

Although it's both common practice and beneficial for Coaches to ALSO understand complicated or unusual penalty options NF 2-32-5 CLEARLY advises, "A Captain of a team is a player designated to represent his team during:  (a) The pregame and OT coin toss.
                   (b)  Penalty decisions following a foul.
                   (c)  Ball placement on a try, kickoff, after a safety, after a FC or awarded FC, a Touchback
                         and to start an OT.

At higher levels it is common place to direct these decisions EXCLUSIVELY to coaches, however at the HS level (and below) developing leadership skills and responsibility are part of the overall objective and bypassing the designated Captain is disrespectful and counter productive.  Ralph's suggestion above, of moving to within earshot of the HC, and explaining the options to the Captain carefully and completely, allow the HC the opportunity to fulfill his responsibility of developing his Captain.

This consideration is not necessary for the majority of penalty options, but the Referee should be aware of situations where ANY appearance of confusion or doubt becomes apparent in the decision process and take practical steps to eliminate such problems.  As suggested, moving to where the HC can "eavesdrop" on the explanation of complicated and/or confusing situations is appropriate, practical and an inconspicuous manner in which to avoid unnecessary problems. 

The purpose of explaining options is to assist the decision maker to understand his choices, and there is no limit to the number of explanations necessary to satisfy that objective.  Our responsibility is to assist a student athlete to understand his options to be able to make an informed decision.

Of course a side benefit to respecting the responsibilities of a Captain, is having that respect returned when the assistance of that Captain may be extremely helpful in dealing with other situations involving his team.
         

[RS]

I agree. The only thing I ask the coach is if he wants to accept or decline the penalty.

[Ralph Damren]

'Spect we Mainers like to yak a little more . In the OP, most coaches and very many officials would not realize the free kick option was still available. This is a very viable situation where it could be chosen and a very intense situation (tie game, goal-to-go , untimed down). In my heart, I would feel I wasn't doing my job if I didn't make the coach aware of it. If the opposing coach questioned why I mentioned it, I would have explained that I would have done the same for him if his team was in the same scenario.

   NO: I don't ask the scored upon team if they want to kick or receive.
   NO: I don't ask if they want to snap or free kick after every fair catch.
   YES: I do ask where they want the ball after a fair catch , on a PAT or after a TB.
 
I guess it's in my nature to chat (as evidenced on this forum ) and I feel I'd rather talk too much than not enough.

Oh, by the way, an excerpt from my "Bucket List" ;

  - Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics & Patriots all win championships in same year.
  - Get a letter form our president on 10/24/2045 when I turn 100.
  - Work a game where a free kick scores a field goal.
 

[jg-me]

Ralph, it's too late to get a letter from President Truman.

As to the play, give the options to the coach. These things are not supposed to be secret. Don't contribute to the outcome of a game by not being forthcoming even though, ideally, every coach would know every rule.

[Ralph Damren]

Ralph, it's too late to get a letter from President Truman.

As to the play, give the options to the coach. These things are not supposed to be secret. Don't contribute to the outcome of a game by not being forthcoming even though, ideally, every coach would know every rule.

Thanks, Jeff, for pulling me out of the past and thanks for the "modify" button! A few years ago when we added FC+15 as an option to KCI, I asked how many realized that the free-kick option was still available after an accepted live-ball foul during the first scrimmage down following fair catch. Very few coaches and many officials did not. 

[bama_stripes]

I know I've said this before but:
If I were feeding, clothing & housing my family by coaching football, I
(or someone on my staff) would know the rule book forward, backward,
and sideways.

[prab]

I believe that telling the captain that if he accepts the penalty he will have an untimed down is sufficient.  Whether he chooses a scrimmage down or a free kick down is up to him.  (No problem with doing this within earshot of coach as Ralph has suggested.)

I believe that by including the option of attempting a FG by free kick may give an unwarranted advantage to team A, by making them aware of something that they not already be aware of.

Consider the OP where the run after the catch ends on the B 10 yard line.  Change the OP a bit to say that the run ends on the A 35.  Would you still include the free kick option in your penalty choices to the captain?  If you say no because a 60 yard free kick for FG is not a likely choice, then including it in the OP seems to be more of a suggestion than an option.

[FLAHL]

Thanks for posting this NorCal.  It's one of the most interesting hypotheticals I can remember seeing here.  I'm going to discuss it with our crew and association rules interpreter to get some additional input.  At this point, I'm not sure what I'd do, and I want to have a plan in the unlikely case that this ever happens.

My initial reaction was that I would give the captain and head coach the options, including the free kick.  As I thought more about it, I think there's a 50/50 chance that the coach would say "What's a free kick?"  Then I'm stuck giving a lesson on 6-5-4 and that seems wrong to me.

In order to avoid helping one team, and hurting the other one, I think I'd go with letting both coaches know that, by rule, there will be an untimed down for A from the 5 yard line.  I'm leaning with Prab and AB.  It's up to the coach to call his play at that point.  Maybe he calls a run or pass play.  Maybe he calls for a FG by free kick.  Either one is legal, and we'll officiate it accordingly.

[VALJ]

I'm with prab and AB, too.  Our job is to make sure the coaches know what's going on.  It's not to tell them of every choice that they have every step along the way. 

[AlUpstateNY]

I'm with prab and AB, too.  Our job is to make sure the coaches know what's going on.  It's not to tell them of every choice that they have every step along the way.

I'm stuck with something I was taught long ago, "Knowledge has no value, until it's either shared or used".  Is explaining a rule divulging secret information, or simply part of our job.  I'm not suggesting holding a Rules Clinic during a game, but (at our level) we're dealing with interscholastic student athletes and perhaps even some coaches who have yet to fully understand EVERYTHING.

As for worrying about what an opposing coach might be offended with, the simple suggestion, "Clarification is part of my job, and I will extend the same service to you when necessary" should suffice for all reasonable inquiries.

As for "What's a free kick", assisting teams line up properly in unusual situations is not all that rare an event and serves to facilitate play, which is also one of OUR objectives. 

Don't be surprised if after the Captain elects to run a play from scrimmage, and the defense commits a live ball foul, you get a look of total confusion when you repeat the option of choosing to run a play from scrimmage or choosing a free kick from the succeeding spot.

[NorCalMike]

We spent about 30 minutes discussing this play during our study group. Most of that time was spent with me trying to convince everyone that Team A had the option to free kick on this play. After going through the rule step by step including all the relevant definitions and case book plays, I think I convinced everyone that A has the option to free. My point is that of the 20 officials in the room, I was the only one who knew the rule. Probably because we discussed on here.

My point is that if many officials don't know the rule, can we expect the coaches to know the rule?

After convincing them that A had the option, the discussion turned to what do we tell the captains/coaches. We couldn't come to a consensus. I placed the question to a our former state rules interpreter who works in our association. He is at the SF Giants game today so he said he get back to me.

First off, because the significance of the decision will likely affect the outcome of the game, I am going to make sure that the coach hears everything I tell the captain. Here is what I would say: Captain, You are going to want to accept the penalty for roughing the passer as this will allow you one untimed down. You have the same options on this play as the previous play as it relates to fair catches.

My goal is to let Team A  know the rule without leading them down the path. If the coach knows what his options are after a fair catch, he should be able to figure the rest out. I am not giving he any advantage this way.

[Atlanta Blue]

Captain, You are going to want to accept the penalty for roughing the passer as this will allow you one untimed down. You have the same options on this play as the previous play as it relates to fair catches.

That's better than explaining that he can free kick (which sounds WAY too much like a suggestion).  But it's also why I was a step farther back than that and said, "We will be REPLAYING the down from the B5."

If he knows the rule, then knowing that it is being replayed is the key to knowing he retains his options.

And I like Prab's reasoning above:  Would you offer the free kick option if he were on the 50?  What about the B20?  Why the B5?  At what point do you offer it?  I don't think you do.  If the coach is smart enough to know the rule, then he has an earned advantage.  If he's not smart enough to know the rule, too bad for him.

And I also love bama stripes line: If I were feeding, clothing & housing my family by coaching football, I (or someone on my staff) would know the rule book forward, backward, and sideways.

It's one reason I have a coaching job!  When I was at the USGA Golf Rules School, the head of the USGA said the same thing: If I were a pro golfer, if I didn't feel like sitting through the rules school, you can be d#mn sure I would pay my caddie to sit through it.

[Rulesman]

My point is that of the 20 officials in the room, I was the only one who knew the rule. Probably because we discussed on here.

Time to recruit 19 new members. 

[prab]

Perhaps it is time to agree to disagree and be thankful that this particular play is at least "rare squared".  (Please do not use the term "rare squared" as I am considering having it copyrighted. )

[Curious]

I believe it is our job to provide ALL the options related to a penalty regardless of the point of the game.  While I agree that we should not "coach" the captain/coach, omitting such a crucial, legitimate, option (expecting coaches to know them all) would be inappropriate.

As much as I appreciate AB's commitment to knowing the rules better than many officials, I don't feel we should ignore OUR responsibility to provide ALL pertinent information related to a team's options.





   

[Atlanta Blue]

I believe it is our job to provide ALL the options related to a penalty regardless of the point of the game.  While I agree that we should not "coach" the captain/coach, omitting such a crucial, legitimate, option (expecting coaches to know them all) would be inappropriate.

As much as I appreciate AB's commitment to knowing the rules better than many officials, I don't feel we should ignore OUR responsibility to provide ALL pertinent information related to a team's options.

"Coach, you can decline the foul, but the game will be over.  Or you can accept the penalty, the down will be replayed, except that you will be on the B5, with one untimed down."

On KCI at the R10 with 9 minutes left in the 1Q, do you explain to the coach the option of a free kick?  On a kickoff that goes OOB at the R2, do you explain that taking the ball at the 2 is one of his choices?  On a defensive encroachment foul on 4th and 2 at midfield do you explain to the coach that he can decline the penalty and still play 4th and 2?  Of course not!

On this play, the option of a free kick is not related to THIS foul.  The options of THIS foul are accept or decline.  Decline ends the game.  Accept means the down is replayed after enforcement.  Those are his options for THIS foul.  Telling him the options for the PAST foul is now coaching, not officiating.

Give coaches that have learned the rules credit.  If he knows the rules, he knows he can free kick.  If he doesn't know the rules, that's his fault for not being as prepared as he should be to coach his team.  Telling him at this point that he can free kick is dumbing down the game to the lowest common denominator.

And Norcal, 19 out of 20 officials in the room not knowing the rule - that's scary!

[Ralph Damren]

I've always tried to give the captain/coach/team enough information so they can make a knowledgeable decision. My verbage for the OP would probably be : "The penalty will be enforced from where the play ended, giving you the ball 1st & goal to go at the 5. You'll get an untimed down to run a play and still have the option to snap or free kick."  If the coach grunts and his eyes turn glassy, I'll assume he wants to snap; but I'll feel that I've done my job better then leaving out that option and having him learn later that he could have. It certainly is a "rare squared" (Copywrite pending -Prab 2015) play and ,IMHO, deserves explanation to those involved.

[FLAHL]

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here  but in the situation described in the OP (1 untimed down from the 5 yard line) a team with a decent kicker is likely to attempt a FG.  If the coach doesn't know the rule, his team runs out and lines up in formation with the holder 7 yards deep and the kicker 3 yards behind the holder.  The defense, of course, lines up "normally" and attempts to block the kick.

I'm guessing that the guys who would have explained the free kick option wouldn't have this scenario.  For those (including me) who said that they wouldn't give a detailed explanation, how do you handle this one?

[Johnponz]

I believe you should give the coach all of the options.  AB pointed out there are times that you do not need to give the coach options, and that is true.  You do not give options when the choice is "obvious."  Here the choice is not "obvious."  I do not want a team to possibly lose a game because I did not give all of the non-obvious options to the coaches.  Why don't we ask after every score if B wants A to kick off or receive, it is because that choice is "obvious."

We get paid to know when a choice is obvious or not.  We also get paid to know the rules.  While it may be prudent, it is not necessarily, the coach's job to know every obscure rule and how it applies to every situation.  That is our job, and it is our job to explain the options when those situations arise.

I am not going to let a team potentially lose because a coach did not understand all of his options under the rules.

[Atlanta Blue]

I am not going to let a team potentially lose because a coach did not understand all of his options under the rules.

I see it the exact opposite way: I'm not going to help a coach win by telling him about a rule he doesn't know about himself.

[FLAHL]

The Officials Manual doesn't offer much help here.  It says the Referee is responsible to "give options to captain of offended team." Page 49.

That could be interpreted to mean give all options including the option to Free Kick, or it could be interpreted to mean "If you accept the penalty, we have an untimed down and we replay the previous down at the 5 yard line.  If you decline the penalty, the 4th quarter ends and we move to overtime."

NorCal, did your rules interpreter come back to you with any additional info?